Polycount, now and then
polycounter lvl 18
About 3 years ago I stopped posting regularly on Polycount. There were a lot of different reasons none of which were that I stopped liking the boards. Back then there could be 15 or 20 new threads a day in pimping and previews, and general discussion was probably more active. Now there may be 2 or 3 new threads a day in P&P. One thing I have noticed is that every single person who was serious about game art back then is still here. All that is missing now are the newbs and the posers.
I feel of two minds about this.
A) I think the boards are much better now, with fewer, more serious, people getting more/better critiques.
With virtually no newbies on here, I wonder if anybody just starting out can find this place. If I was just starting out today I probably would have ended up on some other board, which I think is a shame.
What do you guys think? More people = better, or no? And what role does this board play in helping people get into the hobby of player created content?
I feel of two minds about this.
A) I think the boards are much better now, with fewer, more serious, people getting more/better critiques.
With virtually no newbies on here, I wonder if anybody just starting out can find this place. If I was just starting out today I probably would have ended up on some other board, which I think is a shame.What do you guys think? More people = better, or no? And what role does this board play in helping people get into the hobby of player created content?
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I think one of the reasons theres a lot less posts in P&P these days is because of the WIP thread. Everyone just throws their work in their rather than creating a new thread.
and fyi yes tubboy did make his last appearance and there has been no dallas sighting lately
population densities and makeups are always a subject of interest to me, doubly so as a moderator. these days i'm proud of the current polycount makeup, it's easily managed and a pretty good mix of people.
just keep in mind that this forum, as with most, has its own periods of renewal and then culling. think high tide and low tide. in those intervening 3 years you've been away, there have been waves of newbies, which invariably tapers off into a more stable, slightly larger or smaller forum population. that's just the way it goes.
polycount manages well because of our particular size. there are a lot of forums that get very popular very fast, which can drive away old guard members because the art boards suddenly seem to be filled with newbie crap or destabilizes the culture because of unchecked growth. Conceptart.org has experienced this most definitely, and though i don't frequent them, i would wager the cgchat/cgtalk/cgchannel/cgcg sites have to ride out that dynamic as well from time to time. it's all pretty natural.
I totally dig the PC forums. Enough people to get a good critique, but not so many that your thread ends up with 20 "OMG YOU ROCK/SUCK!!!~`1" posts for every one useful post.
As Gauss said, forums go through various population stages.... Though I'm still waiting for CGTalk to wind down to a state of usefullness.
These days, the focus is less on producing assets for a limited range of games, and more into exploring the dynamics and limitations of producing artwork for realtime application. It means a greater variety of work in P&P, but at the same time, a lot more time being taken.
I enjoy the atmosphere both here at polycount, and CGChat, being able to keep up with everything I want to, without posts disappearing before I get a chance to see them.
Polycount has always had excellent moderation, too. The board mods do a fine job on keeping things 'stable' without being too big brother.
I only came here because someone in my MOD mentioned it , back in the day!
I know i don't post often, mainly because I just browse, and am too shy to post any of my creations.
Haven't posted much in the last 3 years or so just because i try and limit my internet forum tiem while I'm at work.
You missed the huge surge we had for about a week, when those foreign kids came and began posting their class work. That was interesting. The entire first page of p&p was flooded with them.
I like where the boards are now. If I don't check them everyday, I don't have to wade through page upon page of threads to catch up.
I was helping to maintain a network of game PCs for this game store (the store sold mostly board, tabletop and pencil and paper games) and I started downloading user created content. I have been drawing since I was very young, and always thought 3D animation was amazing so when I saw all these other folks creating characters, I started looking for how to do it myself and found my way here.
These days the big game for user created content is the Sims. Frankly, I know very little about the game. I haven't played it or seen anyone play it, but I find the idea of making content for it boring (perhaps in my ignorance). I have to give HUGE props to Will Wright for making it posible to mod, and being the best selling game of all time.
Wright's next game, Spore, looks like little more than a glorifed interface for creating content. If you guys haven't seen the GDC movies for it, I suggest you check it out since it is CRAZY how cool it looks. I really can't wait to get my hands on it.
Is that the future of user created content? Game integrated tools? Or is the next gen thing just going to keep raising the bar? I figure now, if you are already a good artist, it would only take you 2 or 3 years of determined hobbying to put a charcter into a next gen title (ie learn to model, UV, texture and animate), which doesn't seem so bad compared to some other hobbies (model airplanes, furniture building)b the high end user created content has such a steep learning curve!
I have been tooling around CGTalk for awhile, mostly just so I can see good 2D art and get inspired. I think some forums there are good (rigging for example), and the application specific boards are useful to find out new features, but there are still too many damned people to have the feeling of community.
But now I love it,the community is small and very proffesional which is cool and its easy to get advise from people of different levels of skill without the ursal crap/kick ass comments.
John
I think I found polycount because this is where all the 3dpalette guys came after 3dp desintigrated.
I only became a contributing member between one of my jobs. i drift in and out, usually getting way too intense and then tapering off for a while.
Polycount is the only online community that has been able to consitently keep my attention as I move from one part of this continent to the other.
I love how the community has always helped me explore all my favorite interests, yet still put up with my occasional stabs and rude comments. The polycount community has been very patient with me, which is cool. I am very grateful
-R
it's the color scheme, it stands out to me for some reason. i followed some tutorials and downloaded some software where you could paint right on the Q2 models. i remember the polycount buttons everyone made for linking their sites together. i remember my friend trying to hook me up with a program the pros where using called "photoshop" and i could not stand it! i didn't understand the layers, thought it sucked, and stuck with mspaint and audoesk animator for my digital art tomfoolery.
so i painted a custom skin for me and my buddy chris in some type of deep paint software. i played as "green.bacon" and he played as "human.target" the skins sucked soo bad, but we thought they ruled.
years later, i go to "game art school". i stumble on polycount with some google searches. and smiled because i recognized the site from my turn to computer geekdom.
a game art instructor creates an online forum for students called bobolo.net and was introduced into the whacky world of forums and the ridiculousness that is the internet. i'd posted on conceptart since it was very young, not knowing exactly how badass the guys i was shooting the shit with actually were. bobolo.net died and conceptart got way too big. so this dude (verm) sees my work and asks if i would be interested in doing concepts for an ameture project. i met the team and a lot of them posted on polycount and i again got pointed to the site and found the forums where i've been ever since.
i like this place. i like how the board has unique PC smilies. and the people are diverse, knowledable, talented, and rad.
i rather liked how in the previous boards you had to earn your avatar, that was kinda cool. also how when you edited your posts you didn't have the option to hide it, although messy, i think those options made the place more intimidating and "exclusive" which gave members a serious enviroment, i thought those options made people really take more consideration in what they were going to type and the work they were going to show, upping the value.
i like this place. i like how the board has unique PC smilies. and the people are diverse, knowledable, talented, and rad.
i rather liked how in the previous boards you had to earn your avatar, that was kinda cool. also how when you edited your posts you didn't have the option to hide it, although messy, i think those options made the place more intimidating and "exclusive" which gave members a serious enviroment, i thought those options made people really take more consideration in what they were going to type and the work they were going to show, upping the value.
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Ditto, on both counts. Though somehow the flavor hasn't really changed since the old boards. Still crusty, with a soft doughy core, and some jalapenos here and there.
I think probably the only person on here who would have remembered me from before was Frosty, but he stopped posting the same week I registered again.
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Although I've never been a very active polycount member, I still remember you. I believe you replied on one of my skin topics on the old boards.
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A) I think the boards are much better now, with fewer, more serious, people getting more/better critiques.
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I think there are fewer members now because the gaming industry evolved so much. Making a game-addon for your favourite game is a far complexer proces now than it was a few years ago. In the Quake 2 days 3D models where very lowpoly and a lot of the character details where textured. People that wanted their own character in game could just make a different skin on an existing model and have a completly different character.
But as we all know, 3D models steadly became highpolier and more and more details of a character are modelled instead of skinned on. To have a distinct character now, people will have to make their own model, since skinning became less important. And these models need ever more animations, which increases the workload of making your own game model.
Most of the polycount members evolved with the gaming industry. They had time to grow and learn the different abillities we need today. Newbies on the other hand, will have to face a much steeper learning curve than we have experienced, before they can make their first game-addons/ game related art. I think this could scare some of them off. The more difficult something becomes the less people will bother with it.
i joined late 2000 or something and i was an annoying stupid jerk then, and im pretty much the same now only more humorous id like to think
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nope, you joined in nov 2001, as urza's destruction, constnatly spamming crap like "fuck shit fuck shit fuck shit" in the forums (well, at least in TSQT.), and I recall that you've been called a "fucktard" numerous times as well! You also kept requesting a Predator model, iirc.
USELESS MESSAGE BOARD MEMORY RULES
Ninjas, I remember you! Welcome back
I dig a lot of the new stuff you're doing...
Tes, Hope I wasn't an asshole.
MoP, yeah it's good to be back!
I posted a few times on q2pmp, mostly with Amiga questions. Then I started bugging Rogue and Kithkyn about posting my Q2 skins. Nothing ever happened for some reason and then Lo and Behold Polycount sprang to life!
I got recruited here by Schwimmel. I've emailed him a couple of times, but I still get no response. I hope he's okay
But somehow it turned out that this became my new 'homebase', even though I never was a big contributor to the P&P forum (just lazy).
It is kind of strange: In all the time all the way back to '99 I only got about 1000 posts on the old forum... but on the new forum I spam a bit more, I guess (instead of beeing a helpfull addition to the community)
P.S.: I sure remember your avatar and nick, Ninjas. But I can't really connect it to any particular discussions or anything like that.
Tes, Hope I wasn't an asshole.
[/ QUOTE ] Don't worry, you wasn't. It was actually a very positive remark.
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I got recruited here by Schwimmel. I've emailed him a couple of times, but I still get no response. I hope he's okay
[/ QUOTE ] I hope so too. I've reviewed 2 Quake 3 skins for polycount. But I haven't received any more skins to review from Schwimmelpuckel. He doesn't reply to his e-mail anymore. I hope nothing bad happened.
I think it was more awesome back then personally, but probably because of the people who were on here. Not sure if he is still here and changed his name or gone, but EvilBastard was by far one of my favourite lil Lightwave artists.
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I found Polycount when it was known as Q2PMP in 1998
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heh, it changed it's name that year iirc.. was about the time I came across it.
god I wish I could remember how though, pretty sure I was recommended it by my uncle.
Newb Cycle:
- School lets out, we get some new people looking for jobs or asking about art schools. They stick around for a week or two but normally as soon as they find out its not all trampolines and hookers they bail.
- Shortly after school lets out we get a wave of newbies asking what software is the easiest and most fun to use. As if they want one magical package that is as fun to use as playing games. They also don't think to look for tutorials especially when the software comes with them, and they ask people to make tutorials tailored to them and thier needs. These types often start mods thinking they are "the sh!t" and then crash and burn shortly after they get thier freehost website up. They also like to make up stories about how thier friends moved to Zimbobwee and gave said person thier copy of Max but forgot the Auth code and would anyone on the boards mind posting thiers, they don't want to "buy" it again.
- Finally when fall comes around they go back to school and forget all about this "makin' games nonsense" and they stop posting.
The Pro Cycle:
- Can't post in P&P because the only thing they are working on is protected by NDA. So they scan the forums read, but can't spend a lot of time posting because they are pretty busy. They often start to write a post but then have to get back to work so they close it without ever posting.
- Crunch time shows up and they disapear all together, no reading, no posting, no crits.
- Game XYZ ships and they have some free time, they do a few models post a few threads in P&P and everyone fawns.
Hobbiest:
- These guys have yet to get thier first gig, they normally are pretty active and post quite a bit. Some of these guys don't have jobs or have very cake jobs and they have time to do 3D side projects and improve thier skill and post. Sometimes they spend a little too much time on the boards and flame wars break out over stupid annoying crap that shouldn't mean anything to anyone.
- These guys used to be the bulk of polycount. But they often look for the most crits and best feedback so they post on other boards also. Those boards have a higher newb ratio and the fawning is much more, even if the model has some glaring errors often no one points them out and chooses to fawn instead. When other boards blow smoke like "woa kewl model dood!" the hobbiest is more inclined to go and post more on the smoke blower boards and less on the boards with honest crits. However some stick around for the honest crits, and others double post. With less newbs around on polycount the fawning is less which leads to bruised egos. Which in my book can be a good thing.
How I got started. Purchased my first computer (shut up) in Dec. 2001, before then I would just use a friend's. My gf gave me Q3 as a christmas gift, because I enjoyed watching a friend of mine play it back in high school. I soon realized you could place custom characters in the game, which led me to Polycount. I don't remember how exactly. One day I clicked the forum link and began lurking for a couple months. I believe I joined the 6th of June 2002 as "GrindonitX". Can't believe this community was here years before I found it. I've always felt like a newb to PC gaming. I have Q2, but never played it.
So is this new version of the forum nearly a year old now?
Edit spelling
I am trying to think what your ideal polycounter would be. I am guessing someone who posts every day, never complains and wears a large hat.
Around that same time I first started playing first person shooters. My sister kinda forced me to try out Quake 3 and beyond all my expectations I found out I actually liked it. I hadn't been playing first person shooters before, because I didn't like the concept of fighting armies of terrible monsters all alone.
After she found a Quake 3 skinning tutorial on polycount, we both picked up skinning. My sister picked up modelling aswell pretty soon after. I've always focused my attention on skinning alone, because my first modelling endeavors all failed miserably and I didn't have the time nore commitment to do something about it.
After I made my first two skins, I became a registered polycount member and made a website to promote me and my work. I posted my skins on the polycount boards to share my skins with the community and hear the communities opinion about them.
One of my first actions on the polycount boards was my request to change my online rank (newby member) to a custom one (says hello!). I thought the rank newby member sounded belittling. Eventhough I was a very new member my request was accepted, because I had a website and contributed two skins to the community.
On March the 20th this year, I've posted my first model on polycount. I wanted to be able to skin a model I made myself, because that would offer me the chance of making a character that was truly my own. It took me ages to create, but now the model is finished I don't have the time to texture it.
are you one of them cynics vig?
I am trying to think what your ideal polycounter would be. I am guessing someone who posts every day, never complains and wears a large hat.
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See MoP, Gauss and a bunch of other folks. I am really happy with the community the way it is. There are a lot less people coming to these boards but then again that means a lot less smacktards.
Since this is turning into a "how I came to find polycount" thread.
My 2 cents = I came to find polycount after Cold Fusion folded up shop. Which in my mind is when ScareCrow stepped down. I also posted in the milkshape boards but at the time every other post was a two boxes and a 128 sided cylinder aranged to resemble a AK-47, with a badly used photo as a texture.
And yes, the cynic is me
oh btw mishra,
They stick around for a week or two but normally as soon as they find out its not all trampolines and hookers they bail.
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hehe, that's just an awesome tagline
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then again that means a lot less smacktards.
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allows the professional smacktards to get better at thier game, so I think everyone wins.
definately feel the comments are on the ball though. don't think it matters greatly what we feel the forum is like, but it's interesting to find out how people get started. So many different stories.. some with a cool anikdote(sp?) in there somewhere.
Personally I've always prefered the smaller, closer knit forums. Everyone knows each other so you end up with less issues.. or atleast less serious issues.
I don't know how, really... it's not like I ever post any artwork, hahah
Things I like about this forum... seems there's a lot less noise than most others, a lot more industry veterans & serious hobbyists/students, and generally there are more interesting topics here.
XD
I don't really like this place at all. The nut jobs that run the place are completely off their rockers.
XD
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Yeah that n00b has a point there
Plus I can get crits here that are worth something and not just insults or smoke blown up my ass(which feels nice but at the end of the day what've you got?).
If we're lucky, I'll fit into that Pro category, and you'll never hear from me again. Muwahahaha!