Let's talk about schooling
polycounter lvl 18
Hey guys,
I've been lurking the polycount boards since 2001, trying to gather more information than make myself look stupid. I'm finally out of High School and am really looking for advice on the next step in being a successful CG artist. I'm currently self taught, and have been doing 3D for a couple years on and off. I know I haven't been putting my true heart into this, even though I can't see myself wanting anything else. Financially, I am not the most blessed child out there. There is Financial Aid and scholarships, but my big debate is this: is it really worth the money? I took one class in maya at a local community college for dual enrollment. Unfortunatly I got an A in the class but left not learning one new thing. It seems like the only schools that are even beneficial are the high end art schools such and Gnomon and Full Sail. For me, it feels the horizon is quickly fading. All my friends are at colleges I couldn't afford, and I'm really left wondering: should I take the daring task of spending my time not at work working on art and hope to get by from there, or should I really push hard to get financial aid and get in on a college degree. I don't know how much feedback this could really get being it seems more like a rant then a request, but if you guys could just give your advice on what to do, it'd be greatly appreciated. You can see some of my work to tell what kind of footing I have at http://pixelgames.com/Kovac/ Please note however, certain things are not mine - the teeth were from SouL from a long time ago and the UV Map of the soldier was from a previous post on the forums (I was just trying to touch up the lighting). Thanks for your time guys, it's great to talk to such a phenominal group of artists.
I've been lurking the polycount boards since 2001, trying to gather more information than make myself look stupid. I'm finally out of High School and am really looking for advice on the next step in being a successful CG artist. I'm currently self taught, and have been doing 3D for a couple years on and off. I know I haven't been putting my true heart into this, even though I can't see myself wanting anything else. Financially, I am not the most blessed child out there. There is Financial Aid and scholarships, but my big debate is this: is it really worth the money? I took one class in maya at a local community college for dual enrollment. Unfortunatly I got an A in the class but left not learning one new thing. It seems like the only schools that are even beneficial are the high end art schools such and Gnomon and Full Sail. For me, it feels the horizon is quickly fading. All my friends are at colleges I couldn't afford, and I'm really left wondering: should I take the daring task of spending my time not at work working on art and hope to get by from there, or should I really push hard to get financial aid and get in on a college degree. I don't know how much feedback this could really get being it seems more like a rant then a request, but if you guys could just give your advice on what to do, it'd be greatly appreciated. You can see some of my work to tell what kind of footing I have at http://pixelgames.com/Kovac/ Please note however, certain things are not mine - the teeth were from SouL from a long time ago and the UV Map of the soldier was from a previous post on the forums (I was just trying to touch up the lighting). Thanks for your time guys, it's great to talk to such a phenominal group of artists.
Replies
Some people don't need school, they seem to be able to improve their skills entirely on their own. At the other extreme there are those who are now good artists but to get there needed an instructor and/or peer review environment in order to improve their portfolios.
My advice would be to figure out if you feel you need that kind of environment or not, then figure out how to get it. If you want school, work hard for it. Loans are a bitch to pay off, but good instructors are worth the cost (and then some). I was fortunate enough to get my parents to foot the bill for me, but if they hadn't I still would have worked my ass off to pay for it.
Maybe too obvious, but so much of what you learn in an art school is given away online for FREE, in forums like these. You just have to be able to weed through it all, figure out whose advice is worth anything.
Post you work for critique, and update often.
Update your website so people can see the work. I see all kinds of stuff in your folder there, can't tell what's what. Screenshots from a game you worked on? Or a game you like? I only see models for weapons, what about textures? Make a website that someone can actually navigate through.
But more importantly, start posting your work on artist forums, listen to the critiques, work on improving your work.
Also good 3D art is based on the fundamentals of good "prepresentational art" in that it's construction, anatomy, perspective, light& shadow, color, composition and technique.
Scott
Scott
You obviously know which buttons to push already from looking at your webpage. What you need now is a solid foundation in fine art. Which can be had much MUCH more cheaply.
Find a public college that is in state so you don't get hit with out of state tuition costs. And keep up with polycount, cgtalk, and any local user meetings for your Game art side. Major in a fine art degree like illustration or Design. Focus heavily on the fine art aspect.
That way you can learn the foundations from the inexpensive school, and you can see how motivated you are on your own to maintain the CG aspect. Plus most of the free tutorials and advice you get online are from much more experienced and knowledgable people than you will get from the people teaching your classes at an entertainment college.
My .02 cents.
College (in general) is almost more of a social experiment than anything else. You spend a few years in a relatively protected environment ironing out a few more personality quirks that you need to get rid of before being tossed to 'the real world'.
Expensive colleges are about contacts and the name on the degree.
My degree is useless (I had a job my freshman year in the industry and my degree did nothing to change that). However the time i spent getting it was extremely valuable.
Edit: Do you guys think if I were to take that road that it would be better to get into a degree in fine arts or graphic design. I know both would help but what would you yourselves do?
One of the things I got from an expensive school that can be very tough to find elsewhere is the quality of the instruction. I was fortunate to find teachers who gave incisive insight into my work, opening my eyes/mind to get past various blockages/old habits. Finding a good mentor to study with has huge payoffs. I changed _so_ much in that process. And it wasn't just one, several teachers there were amazing, both in their personal work and in their teaching abilities.
The degree/school name does open eyes a little, and that does indeed help my prospects. But as everyone will tell you your portfolio quality is the majority of what you'll be judged by. And that can only improve by immersing yourself in classical art training, wherever you get it.
but like others have advised, a traditional art schooling would be more usefull than one focused on 3d.
I myself have no formal schooling, just a G.E.D i got after droping out of high school, I just spent too much time on these forums and now i make games for living,
i don't regret not going to school for a degree, but i do think that having schooling in traditional art would have been really nice
also looking at a lot of employment sections at studios, they seem to ask for some kind of art schooling or education background ..
the choice is yours though, i'd avoid "game design" degrees and the like. They will probably just teach you to click buttons and i am always skeptical. I think we had this convo before nad poop mentioned that many of these schools are just capitalizing on the fact that the industry is growing. I think it's better to dedicate your time to getting education that is actually valuable, and lets you grow as an artist .. you will always find a way to learn software
About those who have made it into the biz already:
Some people don't need school, they seem to be able to improve their skills entirely on their own. At the other extreme there are those who are now good artists but to get there needed an instructor and/or peer review environment in order to improve their portfolios.
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couldn't agree more. unfortunately, the later of the 2 was my case. your stuff reminds me of the level of skill i was at before going to vfs. yes, i did learn alot from one really fucking good modeling teacher, so it wasn't ALL the work environment, but the work env was certainly a good portion. i've ranted about it before. personaly, i find that it's not about getting an education, it's about forcing yourself to sit down and model something to a super high level of quality. take a look at the models at the very tip top of the industry and sit down and keep fucking tweeking untill it looks right. if you make an arm, and it's fucked up because the form is screwed up, go back and re-express the form. if the lineflow is messed up, load up photoshop and paint over your wireframe. 99% of going to school is putting yourself in a work environment where anything other than a high quality of work is simply not accepted. if you can do this yourself then you'll save 25 grand. don't be satisfied with a quick job, a 'good enough' representation of what you're trying to model. make it look perfect. if you can force yourself to do that, then personaly, i dont think you need school.
however that's not as easy as it sounds for most people... and you WILL probalby learn a fair bit, if you go to a school that doesn't suck. and those are hard to find now a days. i hear even the vancouver film school has gone crap.
I can sum to you all the professors taught in my painting and drawing classes. Here it is, draw only what you see, draw from real life as much as possible instead of your head, and painting, don't paint by numbers there is reflected color everywhere. The last one was the most annoying because they never showed where to begin, and depending on how you mixed your colors they could easily look like mud. The rest was up to me... The problem with most schools is they don't really give a starting point on good workflow or put any of the theory they blab at you into context. Learning technique is very important but most schools don't even touch it. Imagine this scenario, you pay to take photography, but when you get there the professor tells you to figure it out on your own. That was the only class the professor explained how to do things the right way, thank god, but all the computer art classes where like that, Oh figure it out on your own... So instead of learning the basics right away like you would if the professor bothered to teach us it took from anywhere from a month to a few years.
Alex
School also provides Discipline,which is important as well, following instructions and getting stuff done on time may seem boring but youll need it.
Lastly one thing i found which helped me out in school was the competitivness with other artist,friendly off course but wanting to be the best makes you work much harder to do so.
I would never sugest staying at home and making mommy and daddy boot the bills while you sit in your room and nerd out,
i would be willing to bet i've learned more about social interaction working shitty jobs than i could have in school.
another advantage about working shitty jobs is when you do finaly get into the game industry it makes it seem like so much more of an acomplishment
no matter how stressed or anoyed i can get while trying to meet silly deadlines making a game, i can think back to the day at the sawmill where i was nipple deep in a clogged drainage pipe full of sawdust and water the consistancy of oatmeal.. (you can't fucking imagine how that feels) me and one other guy, both with chainsaws clearing the clog of boards, it was terrible..
no ammount of crunch can compair
i went to an art school and above all the most important courses were the fine art and then the 3d,3d gave me the basic fundamentals but the work to improve was all me.
Each choice you make a positive and a negative so choose well.
the bad thing about college is that the competition level is much much lower than it is in the industry, you could be the best in your class and still be WAY below average compared to the people that work in the industry. Main thing is, if you do go don't look at your classmates, look at the best stuff you see online, thats what will get you hired eventually.
the bad thing about college is that the competition level is much much lower than it is in the industry, you could be the best in your class and still be WAY below average compared to the people that work in the industry. Main thing is, if you do go don't look at your classmates, look at the best stuff you see online, thats what will get you hired eventually.
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So much truth it hurts. HUUURTS. If you are in school currently, have the above tattooed to your taint.
I can relate to that. I too am by large self taught. I took some classes at the art institute of Philadelphia but then dropped out because I had a daughter. It took me some time to finally make it into the industry. I'd say it was about four years that I taught myself game art. Then I started to apply to places once I felt I had a few models that were worth showing. You can either look at the jaw dropping work that some of the guys post here as inspirational or discouraging, but either way you have to believe that you too can improve yourself. Every time I start a new character I try to make it better than the last one I made. It took me like two years of applying to land a job. But what is rewarding is that now that I have made it into the industry I realize how beneficial posting my work to forums like polycount really was. Even though I am entry level, I am able to bring knowledge to the team that has relevance. And I am not afraid of critiques from a lead or art director. I am able to look at the artists around me and offer tips to better there workflow. Because of the critiques and guidance received from other artists on forums like these. I think forums like these are beneficial for artists at all levels. This is why so many great ones are here. For me it was places like polycount, GDC and IGDA chapter meetings that helped me succeed. I think an art degree is beneficial but not crucial to have. If the artist is hungry enough to become a great artist than he will, with or without a degree. The game industry knowledge that I lack most right now are the politics of a game company. But only time will teach those lessons.