Outsource yourself?
polycounter lvl 18
Slayerjerman's post reminded me of an old though I was/am playing with for some time now:
Since computergames are all virtual, their production is not bound to a specific place (e.g. where the resources are/ the customers are). So all it basicly needs to do computergames, are some great work PCs, a few buddies with lots of skill and probably a fast Internet connection. Oh and electrical power
In other words, what is preventing someone who would like to start his own business, to just move to a place where it is dirt cheap to live and run a business (and where hot chicks, lots of sun & beach is Ok maybe that would collide with the actual work).
My point is, this sounds like a great plan, and it would really give your company an advantage over others, because you can save tons of money.
But I have never heared of that happen.
There is some recent outsourcing to eastern europe, but that isn't exacly what I am talking about, since they outsource to eastern european employees too (besides the fact that Russia is only nice in the summer
).
Any thoughts on that?
P.S.: It is just a theoretical thought, I am not really planning to do that (yet )
Since computergames are all virtual, their production is not bound to a specific place (e.g. where the resources are/ the customers are). So all it basicly needs to do computergames, are some great work PCs, a few buddies with lots of skill and probably a fast Internet connection. Oh and electrical power
In other words, what is preventing someone who would like to start his own business, to just move to a place where it is dirt cheap to live and run a business (and where hot chicks, lots of sun & beach is
Ok maybe that would collide with the actual work).My point is, this sounds like a great plan, and it would really give your company an advantage over others, because you can save tons of money.
But I have never heared of that happen.
There is some recent outsourcing to eastern europe, but that isn't exacly what I am talking about, since they outsource to eastern european employees too (besides the fact that Russia is only nice in the summer
).Any thoughts on that?
P.S.: It is just a theoretical thought, I am not really planning to do that (yet
)
Replies
If you meant to move the whole team to some dirt cheap place then it doesnt work much better either because most of your employees have family/friends and they dont really want to move to some bombhole.
Anyways, I think it's completely possible to start a small gaming company using talent that exists across the country, or across the world. If I get things rolling like I want to (in the future), then I had planned on basing a company here, but working with guys across the globe.
The most I've done so far is mod games. Not just modding like allowing more weapons, or increasing firing rate, but actual modding
I've already been trying to start up a freebie game with a guy who has purchased the Torque license and if if things workout with that, then my next step might be to start my gaming goals.
The hardest part is coming up with the time
For what I have planned, I'd be looking for people to freelance for set money, or contract a percentage of profit. Not sure if that would work though (percentage). I'd also initially try to target talent in nearby states, so that if visits are necessary, they would be easy/short commutes
If you meant to move the whole team to some dirt cheap place then it doesnt work much better either because most of your employees have family/friends and they dont really want to move to some bombhole.
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Yeah, I was thinking along this line. But you are right, this sure wouldn't work with people who have a wife and kids. But for others, why not? It is not like all places outside of the USA/Europe are bombholes (at least not yet
Right now the US is simply the most interesting place to be, good salaries and the money is worth something when you go back to wherever you came from ...plus english is an easy language to learn and most people in this industry speak it nowadays, unlike russian etc.
It's just not interesting enough to go elsewhere.
JK: so if I've understood you correctly, you simply mean live wherever the hell you like in the world and freelance from there? Isn't that basically what Stephen Stahlberg did?
@Daz: Yeah you are right Mr.Stahlberg (wasn't that Steven btw) kind of did a similar thing. It must be a lot easier to sustain a living by freelancing in Malaysia.
But I was more thinking along the lines of actually starting a complete (small) game company somewhere, instead of just freelancing.
But I guess what Mr.Stahlberg did, basicly qualifies for the same question:
Are there are reasons why contracting companys or publishers would not want to work with freelancers/companys from outside the USA/Europe?
Well, what the likes of Stahlberg and Rene Morel did, was work in the bizz and get a name for themselves, then upped and lived wherever they wanted having built up contacts, a reputation and heck even fame ( within the field of CG ). It's a pretty solid plan. Of course you need to be bloody good too to pull it off.
I think a small unknown company basing itself in the middle of nowhere is a very different animal.
Now with a game company there is a big issue that is being overlooked here... that of publisher due dilligence. By setting up a location networked company you dont actually have the ability to bring a publisher into your office and show them all your busy little squirrels creating the next hit game. They cannot get a feel for the team, the morale, etc. So I would hazard a guess that it would be very hard for them to make a strong investment reccomendation to their superiors unless your project was 80 or 90% complete.
@ jkMakowka: I do all my freelance work from Australia and work mainly with US companies. Time barrier is often a pain, but never discouraged a client yet. Nowadays with messenger, skype and email its not actually that hard to manage. I also work in US dollars to make their life easy.
I would say grasp of Language probably stops US companies from dealing with many other countries... you need very sophisticated English to take art direction efficiently.
You put on-top of this the differing time-zone, differeing costs-of-living, etc.
You also face the monster task of getting up a reputation. Probably the biggest obstical(sp?) in my eyes.
Nice idea, to pull it off would require on hell of a manager and accountant (perhaps translators too heh). Would be interested in seeing someone pull it off, no doubt someone will just to prove it can be.
Perhaps in 18-24months time, once there is more of a market.
Microsoft's development pipeline is opening up more with XNA, Nintendo are opening up thier development software for bedroom developers, Sony are also looking to provide some real tools for budget developers this time.
So while I doubt a company like this would make big waves for the AAA companies, as far as budget companies go. It would be an invaluable service. I can see A LOT of these companies cropping up once the new generation truely hits the stores.
It'll be like the Mod fad all over again. Now Mod teams seem to actually be getting more serious. Far fewer this generation, more dedicated treams, more serious developers.
Best to try and surf on the fads. Would make some good money, plus this new generation of high-speed internet should be commonplace. (would help team communication)
As for bringing in a publisher, that would come later, when my company's game become bigger. Hopefully by then, a new style of company would emerge and it wouldn't require a big impressive facility to impress a publisher. I'm not in the industry though, so you'd understand better than I if there is a chance the industry is heading in that direction.
There are places to sell games though at the low level I'm suggesting
-R
I would say that right now, technology doesn't permit the communication level required to maintain such a company.
You put on-top of this the differing time-zone, differeing costs-of-living, etc.
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Funnily enough it doesn't seem to matter to our company. We have offices in Boston (GMT-4:00) and Canberra (GMT+15:00)
it also seems to have worked for team bondi too.
Technology is advanced enough for this. There's phone conferencing, IM, and email. Even forums on the internet...
In both cases the formula is the same. Make a good game, or two, that gets you a good reputation. Then split and form your own company.
@StrangeFate: Yeah, good point. But isn't the US Dollar also quite weak right now
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It's still more stable and stronger than others.
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Good point StrangeFate but is that even feasbible/legal? Moving substantial chunks of change out of the country? As and when I leave I have no idea how to go about doing that.
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You just wire it elsewhere ?
I have my cheese swiss account where all my 'secret illegal money'(tm) goes. Just go to the bank, tell them to wire it from the account here and gone it is from the face of the earth. I never heard that it was illegal to wire money off a country, i sure wouldn't carry it cash with me.
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Technology is advanced enough for this. There's phone conferencing, IM, and email. Even forums on the internet...
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Agreed, it has been done and it is being done sucessfully, just have to find out who you can trust.
Still, having a drink with your buds over a webcam isn't as good and efficient as sitting right next besides them.
Canadians have different laws that depend on your residency status. Americans by law are required to pay capital gains tax on world income, residency is irrelevent for Americans in this regard *arg* I won't be looking fwd to that when i get a green card.
-R
In switzerland it was a half year, ie. if you were living and working outside the country for more than a half year, you didn't have to pay taxes there.
Germans coming over the border to work in switzerland but lived still in germany had to pay taxes in both countries.
I'm pretty sure the US works kinda similar ?
Whenever I'm trying to get ideas across often I'll be using quite alot of visual cues. I'm not exactly grand at explaining something in a way everyone understands, it takes a while before I can actually get into a workflow with other people.
So being able to sit there and explain through images, hand gesturing, a very quick back'n'forth brainstorm session with the clients to know just what they're after.
It's not something easily done through a text-based medium.
As far as Video Chat goes, the 256k upload speed limit; restricts the possibly send quality. It's hard to see something when the frames per second are relatively slow on a small screen.
I wasn't saying it's not possible to do it successfully, however I do feel that the development pipeline would be much slower due to the current restrictions.