It's a shame the character animation is letting everything else down. You'd expect better quality from something with such high production values. Stylistically it's a bit derivative, but what isn't these days.
Impressive cinematic. I've really liked what I've seen of this game, but I still have no idea what the gameplay is going to be like. From the cinematics, I'd guess metal gear solid with maybe some space combat thrown in.
You thought the character animation was the weakpoint Daz? I thought most of it was rather good.
The only thing I was really with were the enemy designs... I mean the face is cool and all, but still. And the way the legs were attached to the body didnt seem like it would work well at all.
aw SF, you've always had a depressingly low opinion of your own excellent work, if it's 2 days old or 2 years old. Dark Sector might be looking a bit behind the curve maybe, but if it does provide scifi sneakin' action i'd be more than happy to give it a go!
It looked alright from the lil movies. Didnt really show game play.
Though i gotta say getting the rights to have KODO (the japanese traditional drum troop) play really was exhilarating to hear. Someday, I will have the money and time to go to a concert of theirs....
Looks interesting, but I don't see a game there.
Some of the animation was a bit off I noticed & I wasnt fond of a few of the designs.
That said, I'll probably play the demo extensivly before buying the final product. I got hoodwinked with the last DE game, Pariah. What a POS that one was...
Character animation is fucking fucking totally fucking shitting, cocking, ballbag lickingly not good at all. Not in the slightest.
The character animator should be re-assigned to making cups of tea. I bet the teaboy, if there is one, could do a damn sight better than this. Jerky, wooden, robotic humans. Pah. Good game RUINED!
Yeah, I agree about the music. I liked the teaser trailer they released earlier much better. It was shorter, better paced, and had no dialogue, just the drums.
I agree, the animation quality isn't up to par with the modeling and lighting, but it's not really THAT bad. Could be that everyone is used to seeing mo-cap in almost every cutscene like this these days...
The animation is what you'd expect from a game studio. Speaking of game, where is it? I'm not falling for this cinematic advertising crap again. Yes, it's ingame and shows what the engine can do. That's great. Hope it sells. Game?
[ QUOTE ]
The animation is what you'd expect from a game studio.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are many game studios that put out top quality animation. Your comment adds fuel to the notion that the place for real quality animation is film, and the games bizz should be looked down upon. That's a real shame.
Slight detour to the thread sorry :
Whilst I do think the animation could be better I wouldn't go anywhere near as far as Hawkens comments because you never know who might be reading this. It's reminded me of something that happened to me recently. I know how I feel when I see my work publically railed in an aggressive and insensitive fashion. In fact I just got a 'slapped wrist' at work recently for replying to comments on this forum http://www.mi6forums.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=67&sid=e63acfdf3cdf6259897e1488bc3d2af7 after seeing some of my teams work utterly crucified. I just couldn't hold back ( no sense trying to find my replies since I had admin delete them ) and little did I know that our marketing peeps read that stuff ;-) I have to learn to get thicker skin I suppose. I can handle critique, but when it's so unecessarily vitriolic it really irks me. This gig is allready a somewhat thankless task. That is all
I'm not sure why people keep saying they disliked Pariah.
Thought it was quite a nice refreshing change from the usual stuff. Much like I did with Unreal 2 actually.
They're both very enjoyable games. Alright so neither will ever be counted as evolving the genre, or even doing anything remotely new. Still the way they were presented was very nice and relaxed. Games you could just pick-up and have fun with.
Only consoles seem to get games like that (Time Spliters for example). Was nice to play a PC one that wasn't trying to be deathly serious.
[ QUOTE ]
Could this be the next generation Malice?
I tried to keep that comment neutral Daz. Meaning I wouldn't expect an experienced game animator to achieve feature film quality work in a rushed game dev environment. The game industry shouldn't be looked down upon, but the standards are lower, considering studios are continuously trying to show how close their tech can be to true cinema instead of focusing on gameplay. Gameplay that I'm not seeing here. The animation to whatever this is was a bit off at times, and I would agree with hawken, but I really don't care. 125 MB no longer on my HD. Hopefully it'll be a fun game.
Raven: The low opinion of games that only strive to be mediocre is often influenced by the hefty price tag. Example: "I'm not paying $50 for that!"
Thx Gauss, the stuff could really be better, i don't mind the space station itself, but the rest is dated.
Either way, none of the assests there besides the main char will be in the actual game anyway.
The movie was done 2 years ago and has since then been re-cut a doucent times and released over and over it seems.
It was fine 2 years ago (when we didn't but should have released it) but now, it makes the actual game look rather bad, graphically anyway.
About the animations, there wasn't even code for that when we started with it, it was developed along the process and wasnt really usable until towards the end. There was a deadline for the whole thing so after some long nights it just had to be abandoned at that state.
It's a lot of dev, rigging and animating work for an originally 8 mins (more or less) video, that was done by 1 guy (guess who) and a second learning and doing his first animations ever ...and all that in Lightwave.
Anyway, its all stuff we did 2 years ago while developing the engine from scratch at the same time. I think most people at work didnt want it to be released because it made us look rather bad, but if it still holds up or surpasses other actual material out there, then whatever.
Daz: heh, how have you survived this long without thick skin? I've actually had death threats, real life stalkers and messageboard trolls that follow me around.
I haven't felt the need to respond to any of them in years though, who cares what joe wannabe thinks about work I've already been paid for and was a collaborative process anyway.
And you know what I mean by collaborative don't you ? heh
And wow, someone in this thread thought U2 was decent, theres not many of those peeps around!
I was at my first games job when I played U2. I didn't know much back then, but I knew enough to realize that you guys put an assload of work into arting those levels. Each mission was like a whole new palette, new architecural style, new indigenous plant and creature life, etc. And each mission was about 20 minutes long. It makes my stomach churn just thinking about it...
I like games I can sit down and enjoy without worrying about the technology behind it.
Seriously, do many of you guys *actually* enjoy games anymore. Or do you just sit around bitching about what is wrong with the current crop?
I enjoy games for the content, not because the developer has spent 4years getting thier boxes to fall just right with Havok physics, or provide you with awesomely detailed graphics that you can only see a flashlight sized screen of at a time.
Personally while I did like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. Thoughout the entire game of both of them, I was nit-picking everything in my head. In Half-Life 2, many of the textures and levels just ticked me off because there was a lack on consistancy. The way the players moved and were animated again killed the feeling of the world for me.
Doom 3 was cause I couldn't see jack all. What's the point in the most advanced graphics engine in the industry if only a handful of people who'd payed $350 for thier graphics card can run it at a reasonable speed, and you have to constantly use a flashlight to see it?
I spent more time worrying about what I couldn't see, than I did enjoying the actual gameplay.
With Pariah I could just play it and enjoy it. It's very rare to get a game nowadays that you can just pick-up and enjoy because it's not trying to be the best. You might see that as a waste of money, but for me... I ended up playing it more than those that each time I play make me chringe becuase of how things are done.
The graphics in Pariah are consistant. The world are linear but they don't feel linear, they feel open and explorable. Menus weren't a challenge to select a new weapon, it was very easy in-fact. The artwork fit in the world very nicely without looking like they were fake, or plasticy.
As I said, it's one of the few games I was able to just enjoy without sitting there picking apart it's faults. To me being able to enjoy a game is exactly why I'm paying £30 for a game. Sod buying a game because it looks pretty, I expect to play the bugger. :P
Well anyways back to the matter at hand. Viewed the video. Didn't really look like it was pre-rendered, I kinda thought it was all in-game. The graphics could easily be achieve on the X-Box or GameCube. Let alone the next-generations.
Concept is a bit hard to tell. MGS might be right, but I'm thinking perhaps leaning towards PN-03. More action and fantasy thrown in.
The animations in places were a bit weak, but didn't quite as bad as they were made out. I think most of the problem stems from a lack of IK and Tweening going on. Purely a pipeline issue rather than an issue with the animations themselves.
Reminded me a little of Imperium Galactica 2. Totally unrelated game, but still had the same sense of space about it. Too little to really tell though at this point.
And wow, someone in this thread thought U2 was decent, theres not many of those peeps around!
r.
[/ QUOTE ]
now there is an example of true animators skill. U2 was cool stuff.
DAZ: an animator is an animator is an animator. Be it on films, cartoons or games; you still need a sense of animation. A lot of the industry animators (who didn't get the luxury of 3d animation school) came from the 2d days. The animation on Darksector is worse that the FMV sequences when you complete tekken on the PS1!! Such a shame when everything else looks fucking fantastic.
(except the bad guys all have the same face. were they robots or what?)
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, do many of you guys *actually* enjoy games anymore. Or do you just sit around bitching about what is wrong with the current crop?
[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed an excellent game of chess recently, created using a popular opensource engine.
The AI was clever. It never crashed. The animations were flawless.
It's kind of cool that something we pulled out of our butts quite quick 2 years ago and we all think it sucks nowadays, gives everybody still so much to talk about, on the good, and bad side.
[ QUOTE ]
(except the bad guys all have the same face. were they robots or what?)
Disgusting.
[/ QUOTE ]
The original title of the game was Dork Sector: Attack of the silly clones. Then we thought there was no way in hell we could get away with a cheap clones story.
Lack of time for more faces, like said earlier.
Next movie we release will be done all in unique sprites, promised!
[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed an excellent game of chess recently, created using a popular opensource engine.
The AI was clever. It never crashed. The animations were flawless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have a link ? i love chess and would kill for a cool free game with animated figures.
DAZ: an animator is an animator is an animator. Be it on films, cartoons or games; you still need a sense of animation. A lot of the industry animators (who didn't get the luxury of 3d animation school) came from the 2d days. The animation on Darksector is worse that the FMV sequences when you complete tekken on the PS1!! Such a shame when everything else looks fucking fantastic.
[/ QUOTE ]
You think I don't know that? Read the thread. I was the first person to point out the weak animation. I simply didn't understand the excuse from Elysium that it was because it was put out by a games studio. SF does provide some reasons why it was hashed out tho'.
happy to know that the stuff in the movie is outdated cuz I really want to play that game as the chara design is quite cool and stelth games are my favourites
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, do many of you guys *actually* enjoy games anymore. Or do you just sit around bitching about what is wrong with the current crop?
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you notice you're on a game design forum?
And didn't you contradict yourself in that post?
I thought the video looked great. Personally I love the design on the characters. You can't go wrong with sleek ninja guys and bulky robotic suits . The animation wasn't amazing, but on par with most actual in-game animation. I can't wait for it Also the fact that SF is working on it gives me hope
I can bitch about anything. Just look around. Old Age (heh) is making me surley.
Sides I've never seen polycount as a design forum, more like an artist hang-out. Well actually I remember it as a Quake2 modellers hang-out, lol probably think that whole 6-7year break might've been a bad idea.
Caught in a time warp. heh
I wouldn't mind the bitching so much, but often it's not hard to look around and see something like F.E.A.R. being praised, yet in the same breath these same people are bitching about Pariah.
Both are unimaginitive. Difference is that one is only really playable at a decent resolution on a fairly expensive mid-range graphics card.
Definately feel there is much to be said about the understated games. Less people thinking about the enjoyable experience in games and more thinking about how cool it looks while your trying to figure out the designers reason for making you have to double-tap forward to sprint.
(it's not like the PC is short on keys to press )
Sometimes plush graphics detracts from the game itself. That said some of these games the graphics aren't a weak point, they're just weaker than the top-end games. Suddenly it's a crime to actually want your game played by more than a handful of gamers.
(checkout Steam's latest survey to see what I mean)
What is sad is that because people here and reviewer are seen as 'authorities' on things, as such word is law kinda thing. They snub the small potencial market of games they can actually run.
Silly really.
Wouldn't mind seeing a new video :!hint-hint!: given the age of the last one. You know for erm, comparison reasons. heh
Replies
The only thing I was really
Nothing like beating an ugly dead horse!
Though i gotta say getting the rights to have KODO (the japanese traditional drum troop) play really was exhilarating to hear. Someday, I will have the money and time to go to a concert of theirs....
Some of the animation was a bit off I noticed & I wasnt fond of a few of the designs.
That said, I'll probably play the demo extensivly before buying the final product. I got hoodwinked with the last DE game, Pariah. What a POS that one was...
love all the models and sepcials, wow! impresive!
Character animation is fucking fucking totally fucking shitting, cocking, ballbag lickingly not good at all. Not in the slightest.
The character animator should be re-assigned to making cups of tea. I bet the teaboy, if there is one, could do a damn sight better than this. Jerky, wooden, robotic humans. Pah. Good game RUINED!
I agree, the animation quality isn't up to par with the modeling and lighting, but it's not really THAT bad. Could be that everyone is used to seeing mo-cap in almost every cutscene like this these days...
The animation is what you'd expect from a game studio.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are many game studios that put out top quality animation. Your comment adds fuel to the notion that the place for real quality animation is film, and the games bizz should be looked down upon. That's a real shame.
Slight detour to the thread sorry :
Whilst I do think the animation could be better I wouldn't go anywhere near as far as Hawkens comments because you never know who might be reading this. It's reminded me of something that happened to me recently. I know how I feel when I see my work publically railed in an aggressive and insensitive fashion. In fact I just got a 'slapped wrist' at work recently for replying to comments on this forum http://www.mi6forums.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=67&sid=e63acfdf3cdf6259897e1488bc3d2af7 after seeing some of my teams work utterly crucified. I just couldn't hold back ( no sense trying to find my replies since I had admin delete them
Thought it was quite a nice refreshing change from the usual stuff. Much like I did with Unreal 2 actually.
They're both very enjoyable games. Alright so neither will ever be counted as evolving the genre, or even doing anything remotely new. Still the way they were presented was very nice and relaxed. Games you could just pick-up and have fun with.
Only consoles seem to get games like that (Time Spliters for example). Was nice to play a PC one that wasn't trying to be deathly serious.
[ QUOTE ]
Could this be the next generation Malice?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ha! They wish.
Raven: The low opinion of games that only strive to be mediocre is often influenced by the hefty price tag. Example: "I'm not paying $50 for that!"
Either way, none of the assests there besides the main char will be in the actual game anyway.
The movie was done 2 years ago and has since then been re-cut a doucent times and released over and over it seems.
It was fine 2 years ago (when we didn't but should have released it) but now, it makes the actual game look rather bad, graphically anyway.
About the animations, there wasn't even code for that when we started with it, it was developed along the process and wasnt really usable until towards the end. There was a deadline for the whole thing so after some long nights it just had to be abandoned at that state.
It's a lot of dev, rigging and animating work for an originally 8 mins (more or less) video, that was done by 1 guy (guess who) and a second learning and doing his first animations ever ...and all that in Lightwave.
Anyway, its all stuff we did 2 years ago while developing the engine from scratch at the same time. I think most people at work didnt want it to be released because it made us look rather bad, but if it still holds up or surpasses other actual material out there, then whatever.
I haven't felt the need to respond to any of them in years though, who cares what joe wannabe thinks about work I've already been paid for and was a collaborative process anyway.
And you know what I mean by collaborative don't you ? heh
And wow, someone in this thread thought U2 was decent, theres not many of those peeps around!
r.
Seriously, do many of you guys *actually* enjoy games anymore. Or do you just sit around bitching about what is wrong with the current crop?
I enjoy games for the content, not because the developer has spent 4years getting thier boxes to fall just right with Havok physics, or provide you with awesomely detailed graphics that you can only see a flashlight sized screen of at a time.
Personally while I did like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. Thoughout the entire game of both of them, I was nit-picking everything in my head. In Half-Life 2, many of the textures and levels just ticked me off because there was a lack on consistancy. The way the players moved and were animated again killed the feeling of the world for me.
Doom 3 was cause I couldn't see jack all. What's the point in the most advanced graphics engine in the industry if only a handful of people who'd payed $350 for thier graphics card can run it at a reasonable speed, and you have to constantly use a flashlight to see it?
I spent more time worrying about what I couldn't see, than I did enjoying the actual gameplay.
With Pariah I could just play it and enjoy it. It's very rare to get a game nowadays that you can just pick-up and enjoy because it's not trying to be the best. You might see that as a waste of money, but for me... I ended up playing it more than those that each time I play make me chringe becuase of how things are done.
The graphics in Pariah are consistant. The world are linear but they don't feel linear, they feel open and explorable. Menus weren't a challenge to select a new weapon, it was very easy in-fact. The artwork fit in the world very nicely without looking like they were fake, or plasticy.
As I said, it's one of the few games I was able to just enjoy without sitting there picking apart it's faults. To me being able to enjoy a game is exactly why I'm paying £30 for a game. Sod buying a game because it looks pretty, I expect to play the bugger. :P
Well anyways back to the matter at hand. Viewed the video. Didn't really look like it was pre-rendered, I kinda thought it was all in-game. The graphics could easily be achieve on the X-Box or GameCube. Let alone the next-generations.
Concept is a bit hard to tell. MGS might be right, but I'm thinking perhaps leaning towards PN-03. More action and fantasy thrown in.
The animations in places were a bit weak, but didn't quite as bad as they were made out. I think most of the problem stems from a lack of IK and Tweening going on. Purely a pipeline issue rather than an issue with the animations themselves.
Reminded me a little of Imperium Galactica 2. Totally unrelated game, but still had the same sense of space about it. Too little to really tell though at this point.
And wow, someone in this thread thought U2 was decent, theres not many of those peeps around!
r.
[/ QUOTE ]
now there is an example of true animators skill. U2 was cool stuff.
DAZ: an animator is an animator is an animator. Be it on films, cartoons or games; you still need a sense of animation. A lot of the industry animators (who didn't get the luxury of 3d animation school) came from the 2d days. The animation on Darksector is worse that the FMV sequences when you complete tekken on the PS1!! Such a shame when everything else looks fucking fantastic.
(except the bad guys all have the same face. were they robots or what?)
Disgusting.
Seriously, do many of you guys *actually* enjoy games anymore. Or do you just sit around bitching about what is wrong with the current crop?
[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed an excellent game of chess recently, created using a popular opensource engine.
The AI was clever. It never crashed. The animations were flawless.
[ QUOTE ]
(except the bad guys all have the same face. were they robots or what?)
Disgusting.
[/ QUOTE ]
The original title of the game was Dork Sector: Attack of the silly clones. Then we thought there was no way in hell we could get away with a cheap clones story.
Lack of time for more faces, like said earlier.
Next movie we release will be done all in unique sprites, promised!
[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed an excellent game of chess recently, created using a popular opensource engine.
The AI was clever. It never crashed. The animations were flawless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have a link ? i love chess and would kill for a cool free game with animated figures.
DAZ: an animator is an animator is an animator. Be it on films, cartoons or games; you still need a sense of animation. A lot of the industry animators (who didn't get the luxury of 3d animation school) came from the 2d days. The animation on Darksector is worse that the FMV sequences when you complete tekken on the PS1!! Such a shame when everything else looks fucking fantastic.
[/ QUOTE ]
You think I don't know that? Read the thread. I was the first person to point out the weak animation. I simply didn't understand the excuse from Elysium that it was because it was put out by a games studio. SF does provide some reasons why it was hashed out tho'.
http://www.ogre3d.org/gallery/albums/album20/moves2.sized.jpg
which can be downloaded from here: http://www.steviedisco.co.uk
Seriously, do many of you guys *actually* enjoy games anymore. Or do you just sit around bitching about what is wrong with the current crop?
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you notice you're on a game design forum?
And didn't you contradict yourself in that post?
I thought the video looked great. Personally I love the design on the characters. You can't go wrong with sleek ninja guys and bulky robotic suits
Sides I've never seen polycount as a design forum, more like an artist hang-out. Well actually I remember it as a Quake2 modellers hang-out, lol probably think that whole 6-7year break might've been a bad idea.
Caught in a time warp. heh
I wouldn't mind the bitching so much, but often it's not hard to look around and see something like F.E.A.R. being praised, yet in the same breath these same people are bitching about Pariah.
Both are unimaginitive. Difference is that one is only really playable at a decent resolution on a fairly expensive mid-range graphics card.
Definately feel there is much to be said about the understated games. Less people thinking about the enjoyable experience in games and more thinking about how cool it looks while your trying to figure out the designers reason for making you have to double-tap forward to sprint.
(it's not like the PC is short on keys to press
Sometimes plush graphics detracts from the game itself. That said some of these games the graphics aren't a weak point, they're just weaker than the top-end games. Suddenly it's a crime to actually want your game played by more than a handful of gamers.
(checkout Steam's latest survey to see what I mean)
What is sad is that because people here and reviewer are seen as 'authorities' on things, as such word is law kinda thing. They snub the small potencial market of games they can actually run.
Silly really.
Wouldn't mind seeing a new video :!hint-hint!: given the age of the last one. You know for erm, comparison reasons. heh