Global warming: polar ice
polycounter lvl 19
As I was nodding off to sleep last night, I was thinking about whats gonna happen when the sea levels rise, as we are told all the time by the news media (at least in the UK anyhow).
Then it dawned on me like some great bulking Shambler who had his breakfast stolen: "hey, isn't the majority of the ice under sea level?". So the sea level will rise by a maximum of a 3rd of all the ice at the polar caps. "so what" I thought. Even though we are trapping more heat into the planet through destruction of the ozone layer, carbon monoxide / dioxide and all that jazz (which isn't all that great) - will it really effect the sea levels that badly? I doubt it, to be honest. So to that effect, whats with all this scare-mongery we get in the news? Did they really think that ice under the water once melted would make more... water?
Whichever way you look at it, Kevin Costner is not right.
After that I went to sleep and had dreams about sex.
Then it dawned on me like some great bulking Shambler who had his breakfast stolen: "hey, isn't the majority of the ice under sea level?". So the sea level will rise by a maximum of a 3rd of all the ice at the polar caps. "so what" I thought. Even though we are trapping more heat into the planet through destruction of the ozone layer, carbon monoxide / dioxide and all that jazz (which isn't all that great) - will it really effect the sea levels that badly? I doubt it, to be honest. So to that effect, whats with all this scare-mongery we get in the news? Did they really think that ice under the water once melted would make more... water?
Whichever way you look at it, Kevin Costner is not right.
After that I went to sleep and had dreams about sex.
Replies
global warming = media bullshit
thx for that great post there sonic.
Actually the onzone layer is sealing up in many parts
Actually the onzone layer isn't sealing up in many parts (just as random)
I mean tell us where you have this knowlege from. Probably from the media eh ? or do you make youre own cauculations. So please, don't just put it off as media hype because it has been around for quite a while but I guess you are one of the people that say 9/11 was all goverment planned and media hyped.
It isn't so hard to understand that these things take their time and don't just happen by the klick of a finger.
"We will feel the consequences of pullution and global warning" - "ah it hasen't happen the puney 20 years I have lived so it probably won't anway so I might aswell keep on pumping poison into the air that I breathe everyday, shit I've been smoking for 15 years and haven't had cancer yet, so why on earth should it come anway, this smoking is bad shit is all media bullshit"
A lot of scientists agree and just as many refuse to consider it to be what's in motion at present.
There are many theories to what's going to happen and they're all pretty bleak but GW seems to be the most fashionable rite now.
Personally I'd say climate change was happening without a doubt, but weather has only been accurately recorded for the past century. Many seem to be forgetting what's happened over the thousands and millions of years the earth has been here and how so many civilisations have been wiped out. Climate change is nothing new and is part of mother nature, weather cycles aren't so simplistic as yearly patterns, there are much bigger cycles at work such as ice ages and apocalyptic weather, which many have a theory to have been what wiped out the egyptians.
We certainly aren't helping and as such I always do the best I can to recycle and be conscious of energy efficiency (for the sake of my bills), but I really don't hold much faith in the Global Warming theory due to the co2 emissions we contribute to the atmosphere being a minor fraction overall and the fact that natural disasters of grand extremes have been present long before any country was industrialised.
I have no doubt we're heading forward to a nasty bit of a weather, but wheather humans really are a main factor.. I doubt in honesty.
I agree with you about the sensationalized and scare-monger tactics used by the media to get ratings. It's shameless. I was watching the local news once shortly after the tsunami hit in South Asia, and they had a story on the possibility of a tsunami happing in Lake Tahoe. I guess it's on a fault line or something, but it's a fucking lake, how much damage and carnage could it possibly cause?
and i reckon it's not because of Sonic's farts
global warming or not, i hope there's a reason why its 90% humidity today with over 30c outside
and i reckon it's not because of Sonic's farts
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my hypothesis: the sun is HOT
I was waiting for a chance to post that.
Either way, most of the ice is actually on land, the antarctica is a continent that's covered in ice. The arctica is just floating ice and won't influence the sea levels much (except that it will lower the salinity of the ocean water) but all the ice on the antarctica, iceland, greenland, etc will raise the sea levels.
Also, while global warming hasn't been proven neither has thermodynamics or gravity. Those are just scientific theories that happen to match all observations because the only thing that can be proven is math and its derivatives (e.g. computer science). You cannot prove theories about natural laws because proving means showing that your theory is applicable in all cases, no matter what happens. You cannot do that through experiments since you cannot test an infinite number of possible configurations and you cannot know whether you can even know all possible configurations. Noone can prove or disprove God because all you have are observations and observations are just sample data from which you can extrapolate likelihoods and form models that explain all observations but you can NOT prove that anything is true (you can however disprove a theory by finding one configuration where the theory/model predicts an outcome that differs from the observed one).
In other words, no, global warming hasn't been proven and it never will be proven but it explains all observations.
actually the ozone layer is sealing up in many parts
global warming = media bullshit
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Yes all the high altitude glaciers that have been around for 1000's of years decided to simutaniously melt around the globe this paticular last 100 years . I mean even though the Glacier at Mount Kilaminjaro has been there for 20,000 years it would have melted this century anyways regardless of human related pollution ..cause global warming is as mythical as a unicorn ...
http://www.secretsoftheice.org/icecore/sealevel.html
It's a lot easier to see a difference if you grew up in a place with snow.
When i was a kid (5 years) there used to be as much snow in my town in switzerland as there is here in London/Canada now. It held for weeks and was about 20cm high. Traffic was in trouble... the usual stuff.
Now (25 years later), there pretty much isn't any snow at all. It may snow 1 day and stay there for another (white 1mm sheet of snow), then it's gone. And that's all you get every year now, compared to entire consecutive weeks of 20cm snow.
I've been told that it was the same here in London, people used to jump off the windows because the doors were barricated under 1 meter snow. Now there's only the 15-20 cm we used to have in switerland.
That's very clear difference to me, i guess you have to witness it yourself to believe it, just like that God thing.
The tempreture of the planet is based on the amount of co2 in the air. We pump out more CO2 than any point that we can see in the ice sheets. The ice sheets show highs and lows of CO2 coming and going. The thing is it always max's out and starts to drop at the point that we were in just before the industrial revolution. Sense them its sky rocketed, with it our temp have been raising.
It's a lot easier to see a difference if you grew up in a place with snow.
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The opposite is also true. How many of you have worked outside each day for the past two summers? *raises hand*
It is fucking hot! I rememer I use to spend my summers where I currently live, and it was a comfortably warm climate. Now I've gone through about 3 AC units in the past 4 years. You're tempted to change shirts after walking to the street to check the mail. Back in my home town I remember 3 - 4 feet of snow. Now it's more like 3 - 4 inches...if you're lucky.
I'm sure politicians in there icy cool summer homes, luxury cars, and private jets could care less. Besides, who needs snow. It's difficult enough for people to drive without it.
global warming = media bullshit"
Greenhouse gases are what lead to global warming, not a lack of ozone. Ozone protects from UV radiation.
i believe this sort of climate changeis occuring from what i have experienced and read,to say its media bullshit is an view its not like scientist are making this up,why would they? the data certainly points towards global warming being a reality.
global warming = media bullshit
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Anyone who is trying to claim it doesnt exist. Try again. Unless your trying to say science is bullshit. It has been proven. Where the arguement is what is causing it.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1489955,00.html
I wish those of you who continue to think this would realize the truth instead of having your hands on your ears.
I mean tell us where you have this knowlege from. Probably from the media eh ?
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First, I'd like to ask you where you get your knowledge from? Do you have connections to the government and they feed you secret information?
http://www.edie.net/news/news_story.asp?id=10087&channel=6
another interesting read: http://archives.thedaily.washington.edu/1997/120597/warm971205.html
Instead of looking at progress from the past couple years or decades, look at progress over the past 1000 years. The theory that it's a cycle of nature has just as much validity as the theory that we fucked everything up. The earth has been through much worse than us (although soon we may be worse
i believe this sort of climate changeis occuring from what i have experienced and read,to say its media bullshit is an view its not like scientist are making this up,why would they? the data certainly points towards global warming being a reality.
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The really big lie about man-made global warming is that almost all scientists accept it. More than 4,000 scientists from 106 countries, including 72 Nobel prize winners, signed the Heidelberg Appeal (1992), calling for a rational scientific approach to environmental problems. Many senior scientists have also supported The Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming (1992), The Leipzig Declaration (1997) and finally the Oregon Petition (1998) which received the signatures of over 19,000 scientists.
By the way, CO2 is a minor greenhouse gas, far behind H2O, and CO2 has little effect on the greenhouse effect.
Anyone who is trying to claim it doesnt exist. Try again. Unless your trying to say science is bullshit. It has been proven. Where the arguement is what is causing it.
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That was pretty ignorant. That article proves nothing. It's the whole "we don't have an explanation for it, so it must be THIS!" idea. In fact, look at some real information and data.
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
I love how everyone bit my head off, yet no one provided any actual data or evidence.
here is the report on global warming by the national academy of sciences
http://www4.nationalacademies.org/onpi/webextra.nsf/web/climate?OpenDocument
again who is tellingthis lie about global warming and why?
how are so many scientist so fooled??
on the other hand i can see people who would not benefit from tighter regulation on pollution wanting to call this a big lie just like Exxon who pumps millions into skeptic groups
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/05/some_like_it_hot.html
heres the full report
http://books.nap.edu/html/climatechange/
tell that to people with skin cancer from areas over the largest holes like NZ and see If they feel any better.
You seem to passionately believe in global warming being a myth Sonic, yet concur that scientists can't actually agree on the subject.
So here's the thing, If we really *dont* know for sure, would you not agree that it is better to err on the side of caution and do as little harm to the planet as possible, rather than steadfastedly sticking to our guns and fucking it up?
On the water vapor angle: 87.2329% of all statistics are made up on the spot
However many doubts I have about that author's sources/methods of conclusion, water vapor is obviously contributive to the greenhouse effect. The "anthropogenic" (now there's a $5 word!) contribution could potentially be what starts the snowball: water melts covering more surface area of the globe therefore more evaporative action = more water vapor = more greenhouse effect.
There's a million ways to argue it but I think it boils down to not enough data.
BTW your webpage was created two years ago, and cites even older sources.
That doesnt sounds like they're sealing up on many parts, and the 'indications' tat they will close, well... sounds more bogus to me than the warming theories supported by most scientists.
Your other interesting read is not even worth reading after seeing it's 8(!!) years old. oh dear.
Daz: I didn't say it was a myth. When I said it was bullshit it was like 4:30 am and I meant it to be in good spirits, yet everyone shit their pants over it. I'm not such a moron that I believe it doesn't exist whatsoever, it's the arguement of whether or not it's a problem and if we created and can resolve the problem. Also, I'm not arguing that we don't need less pollution. Hell, I'm all in favor of a clean environment, then I could breathe better in the big cities
Oxy: my apologies, I didn't read the article past about the 3rd paragraph or so. I read the title "New proof that man has caused global warming", came to the conclusion that it's more amazing "proof" from the media and closed it. I'll give it a read and post about it when I'm done
http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1108742624.shtml
Just because a scientist comes up with this groundbreaking theory doesn't mean its not full of flaws. Everyone believes scientists to be above us and extremely smart. They may be able to formulate a complex idea that we could not have developed, but that doesn't mean you can't examine it for yourself and put some of your own logic to it.
There's another good and recent read (Feb 2005 I believe) that shows just how false scientists data can be:
http://www.deanesmay.com/posts/1108742624.shtml
thats a fact. No-one can dispute it.
As we are trapping more of these greenhouse gasses... work it out for yourself. The wee beggers can't escape!
in about 200 years they will be begging people to trade in thier electric cars for SUV's so they can thicken up the Ozone layer. "GLOBAL COOLING IS REAL! OUR HEAT IS ESCAPING INTO SPACE!"
The plantes tempreture changes alot over time due to slight chemical changes in the atmosphere. These changes are very abrupt, sometimes only taking 50 or so years to change the temp 50 degrees. This informtion comes from the polar ice. For the past few thousand years the tempreture has been very stable, more stable than they have ever seen. This doesnt mean that the temp isnt raising because it is. Over the past 50 years its been raising by a small fraction but stedly raising.
Were changing the cemical balance in the atmosphere. Were cutting down the trees in the rainforests which are our number two co2 absorber. The oceans are getting poluted by our waste that we dump into it, which is killing off plant life in the affected areas.
Global warming is true, we might not be the direct cause of it, but were not helping slow down any.
Here in the city im from Houston they have this "Dont mess with Texas" ad campaign encouraging people not to litter,well hat doesnt apply to the petrochemical industry , the mayor is investigating many of these companies for falsifying emission reports. We have the best cancer treatment centers in the nation but thats no wonder due to the cancer rates in this city and surrounding cities. They even have nicknames for some of the cities around like Texas city is nicknamed "cancer city" and Pasedena is nicknamed "Stinkadena"
so afer years of seeingthe bullshit these companies spread when i read they are the major funders of the "skeptics" well im not too inclined to trust them.
Stick a cube of ice in a full glass of water and watch what happens. As the ice melts the water level goes DOWN.
Ice is less dense and more volumous than water.
One thing that i do know is that the carbon levels in our atmosphere will do more than just boil our oceans. It will burn our trees and create massive global fires blocking out most of the suns rays for an "extended"period of time. This will in turn kill much of the things that rely on sunlight on this planet. But hey , if we are lucky , this might not happen for another 100 years , so we are ok , right?