Gotta ask: Mod "Redux"

oXYnary

I was just noticing this.

Why do I see so many mods follow the same premise, or even worse make direct offshoots of pre-existing games in different engines?

I mean why are there soo many of these particular types? Is it a certain age group that want to make these? Is it alot of these project creators lack imagination for new ideas? Is it they feel they can garner more interest?

What? ?

sundance

it's a lack of imagination, an ignorance of IP law and a pathetic attempt to inspire people to cross from one game to another.

Sett

You just noticed this now? Is it any surprise that the modding community is as unimaginative as the pros. How many ww2 FPS are out there now? "Is it they feel they can garner more interest?" -probably, mods take a lot of work. Also the age thing you touched on- the kids get excited by a franchise 'ooo let's make a UT ver. of Halo' Many can play the guitar but how may can write a good song? Hence you get the cover band ver. of modding.

I think it is the nature of the beast. There is only so much you can do with the concept of 'kill the other guy'. Variations on We vs Them, I against All, etc. In most FPSs you are doing one of two things- sneaking or berserking. What would you want to play? A game where you farm, make friends or plunge a starship into the city core?

I think it was Iggy Pop that said something along the lines that he got into music because there was nothing out there that he liked. This is what drives my need to mod and also why I'll never join a mod.

CheapAlert

It's also another way to bootleg other games so they won't buy original copies. Remember that MoH: Source and Elite Force: Source mod and arguments in the Requests section? Most of these are of course HL2 mods, always claiming they can do much better than the original game because they have the overhyped "Source" engine by their side, with the only advantages being the basic physics and the "ooh shiny water".

I'm mainly pissed at edgeDM for HL2 (formerly Quake Source, and yes Todd Hollenshead was on their ass and they resisted tsk tsk) because they're just remaking Q1, Q2 and Q3 in one for the reason of their engines being outdated. Also their levels aren't quite faithful, i.e. adding pointless stretch of outside areas around dm arenas with WATER, heh. I mean wtf's the point, why not just play the actual Quake and Quake2 games with retexture projects and new engines?

Some even make clones of the games, but with furries. Take Dracten for example (it was meant to be a furry halo according to it's "design documents" oh it's a hl2 mod too )

And age groups may play into this, i've noticed most of these type of "carbon copy" mods are started with a male teenager at least 14 but at most 17.

MoP

It's so foolish that the 15-year-old "mod leaders" think that their amazing new CS/WW2/Quake clone will lure the players across from the all the established games because "OMG we hav more reelistic weapons!!"?!!"

More weapons isn't what makes people play games. They miss the whole "fun" point.

I have a few game ideas rolling around in my head which haven't been tried before... as soon as I find a really good programmer I might give them a try. Probably turn out to be not as playable as I'd like, but hey, it's better to try and tread new ground than endlessly re-hashing the existing stuff.

Neo_God

[ QUOTE ]
More weapons isn't what makes people play games. They miss the whole "fun" point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it seems that when you go to any half-life 2 mod site, you'll always see millions of gun models. Never a player model. Perhaps a map prop.

Though to me, perfect example of lack of originality is, a couple years back (maybe 4 or 5) I used to frequent the Bid For Power message boards (and I know you know what that mod is). Anyway, everyone and their uncle was in a dbz mod, there must have been 20 of them all with 3 words names too.

and I always loved seeing the trend of when a mod first started. It has members joining left and right, and people are really hyped up. It boasts all these amazing features it will have and it will be awesome! But then reality sets in. They realize they have no coder, because no one wants to work for such a crappy mod and there's been no progress for the last 2 months.

I would love to be able to code, I tried it, I even took a class on it, and it was just one of those things I wasn't very good. Though I wish I could just make my own little mod, that I would have a fun time playing, and it doesn't take much to ammuse me either, I loved Garry's Mod for Half-Life 2. I had so much fun with that, by myself no less. I actually built my self a small shack in it out of the game props. Haha.

hmmm, this post may have gone a little off topic, though it's still fairly relevant.

ElysiumGX

DBZ mods. Yeah, we all remember Bid For Power. Sad thing is direct copies of BFP are still around. Two DBZ mods for UT2k4 get more attention than the most original mod ideas created for the engine. And they all look the same. No attempting at variety what-so-ever. They should all be shut down immediately. Speaking of creative, I think Air Buccaneers is an excellent mod idea. But few play it. More people are playing the WWII mod. Kill nazis, yay! Move on!

The mod scene is a strange and desperate one. I'd love to start my own project as a lesson in leadership, because I see so many ideas with potential poorly managed and abandoned. Some of the greatest attempts at diversity in the mod scene barely make it off the ground.

It's all about the fanboys. I'm working with a Marvel comics based mod atm. It's hypocritical of me, but I want to finish what I've started. I honestly can't wait til it's over to start something fresh.

gauss

actually i think there is a really nice amount of variation in the mod community; unfortunately the only stuff that we can see that gets a good amount of contributions to it tend to be already clearly established themes and designs (notice how the mod community retrofit's id's most recent tech and style into the previous generation?) because it's just easier that way. you have to have an extraordinarily clear vision and inspirational art (say like that nuclear dawn mod) if you're even going to begin to buck the trends. otherwise, you probably should start a mod within those established conventions, because it's a stand-in for the vision that your typical mod leader can't communicate to others.

Marine

a lot of the "designers" think it's their way into the industry. they look at stuff like gunman chronicles, counter-strike or desert combat and think "wow, if i rip off one of those, i can spend the rest of my life making games too" they always seem to miss the bit about fun and innovation. i'm still waiting for hl2's big mod, i just hope it's something new and entertaining.

Irritant

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
More weapons isn't what makes people play games. They miss the whole "fun" point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it seems that when you go to any half-life 2 mod site, you'll always see millions of gun models. Never a player model. Perhaps a map prop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this has been the case for some time. I've been around the mod scene since Doom I, and it really seemed to start around the time Half-Life mods become the "soup de jour". Tons of mod teams with supposed "great ideas" (but really making a CS or WWII type game) would show off these really nice weapon models, maybe, they'd get as far as a map or two, but the vast graveyard of unfinished mods that barely got off the ground grew exponentially at that time.

In some ways, it seems like the popularity of CS and Half-Life was one of the worst things to happen to the mod scene. Back in the day, when I had to walk a mile to school in knee-deep snow, I didn't remember such a VAST number of mods, and I certainly didn't remember so many of them going unfinished.

milla

I sometimes like games, but don't like the engine used. At that point I wish they'd used an engine I did like. It wouldn't surprise me if some existing game redux mods were born of similar sentiments. Quake II and original UT were like that for me - loved the gameplay and hated the interface.

KDR_11k

Many mod leaders talk about large fanbases (i.e. they want the game with the largest userbase) so they get picked up by Valve/Epic/whatever. Yes, most often it's a CS clone and often they won't put their design document on the net because they fear someone will steal their "great ideas".

Often the best mods are the coder-only mods that are just plain implementations of some gameplay ideas with no real graphics or levels to go with it. Because those have nothing left to woo the gamer except their gameplay. Though they rarely get a large userbase.

So in essence the mod world has become worse than EA. I'd love EA to get the exclusive license to realistic weapons, Nazis and, if Atari can't enforce their license properly, DBZ. Just to give these mod makers no more option to make any more standard clones.

BTW, if you clone Quake but change it a bit, is it Quake anymore? Quake players want every single physics exploit from the original in their game, every weapon must do the exact same damage, every wall must be exactly where it was. Either it's so close iD can still get them for copyright infringement or it's so different it's not Quake anymore.

ElysiumGX

Yeah, but programmer art is terrible. All it would take is an awesome coder, and an experienced artist to do something great.

KDR_11k

rogrammer-only mods rarely have any art at all, just altered weapon functionality and stuff.

Dravalen

[ QUOTE ]
I have a few game ideas rolling around in my head which haven't been tried before... as soon as I find a really good programmer I might give them a try.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good luck with that, trying to find someone reliable and who's skilled is similar to trying to find a needle in a haystack. It can be done, but more often than not it's not worth the effort.

MoP

Well, my brother is an excellent programmer, if we both still lived at home we'd probably get a load of stuff done... however we're both at different ends of the country spending more time on university than anything else, so it's too hard to get anything started.
That said, I hear there are a few good programmers (and a whole lot of not-so-good ones) on a game design course at the university I go to, so maybe I'll see if I can grab one of them...

KDR_11k

Pfft, game design course... There's enough programmers studying computer science. Just look around in the faculty for computer science, you'll find tons of programmers.

oXYnary

Back in my days, the computer science majors I knew weren't interested in games (except 1 guy who wanted to do flash design). That and were too busy on their own projects.