With an issue like that it'll only bother you if you let it bother you. I mean honestly if this is someone you're thinking about getting back together with are her breasts the most important factor? If you like her as a person and not for her breasts then it really shouldnt matter if hers are 'augmented' or not. It might could be likened to the idea of someone not liking someone because their breasts werent big enough. I think what it all comes down to is just the person. If their breasts are nice but the person is annoying or you just dont like them then it wont work anyways :P I guess the advice i'm trying to give is, dont fret about it, there's much more to worry about than if she had surgury
fake boobs look nice when they have clothes on, but once the shirt comes off they look horrible and are a huge turnoff. keep them natural or give them to me.
I think it's a very individual thing. I would never get them, for the simple reason that my rack doesn't actually hold any importance in terms of my self-image or happiness, so long as it's actually there.
That said, if I have to have a mastectomy at any point I'll rethink that stance. I don't really care about size, but I'm pretty sure I'd feel really screwy if I lost one or both of my breasts.
A lot of women's insecurities are more appearance-based, and if their rack doesn't fit their idea of beauty they may be much happier with help from a cosmetic surgeon. That's their problem, and they can deal with it as they see fit.
It's not as though a woman need lose sensation or functionality, or even endanger her health these days, so it's not the extreme measure it used to be. They apparently are feeling more real externally now too, so perhaps they need not be a loss to the woman's partner either.
What is really important is how a woman sees herself. Most women I've discussed grooming and personal image with agree that 90% of the urge to tart oneself up and look good is purely self-serving, and has little to do with how men see us. For myself, I like it when my husband tells me I look hot, but even if he didn't I'd still do it, because I feel more confident and happy when I do.
Whatever reservations or negative feelings you may have about any changes your SO has undergone you really need to get over it. It's her body, and the woman you love is still the woman you love, be she an A cup or a C cup. Consider whether you'd be happier if she chose to change her breast size by putting on or losing weight, which alters most of her body, or by surgery, which is localised, whether it'd make a difference to your feelings for her one way rather than another, and whether any of this really effects you at all, except in terms of getting used to a slight change. Consider the idea that this really isn't your business. Does she consider it her business every time your body changes in some way?
My cup size has gone up by two sizes and down by one on the past year. I haven't done a damned thing to my rack. Weight-change does that to you all by itself.
Also, lingerie, pregnancy, hormone changes, state of health, and age....
Consider how untrusting it is to doubt her, and if it really matters that much. What caused the change, if there is one, doesn't matter in the long run; she may merely have lost weight around her torso, but not her breasts, or she may have put it on and in her case it all goes to the boobs first....or she may have clever underwear!
If it is implants you may have bagged previous women with implants enough that she thinks you'll love her less if she does it. Maybe you can thank yourself for any secrecy.
Talk to her, seriously and sympathetically, about this subject again. Bear in mind that not all boob-jobs are equal, and if you can't tell if they're implants or not then it doesn't effect you enough to warrant distressing her about it.
I might sound like I'm coming down on you. I hope not. I'm just trying to convey an alternative point of view to you. A woman's rack is like a man's penis - it plays an important role in life, and has drastic effects on self-image. Don't give her a hard time unless you feel you're on really solid ground, because they're HER breasts in the end.
My opinion on implants is thus...
Back in the late 80's and early 90's when HBO and Showtime was showing all the tits&ass bikini movies I was like "FLABBERGASTED OUT OF MY MIND" but after several years of that I got to where I hated them and could spot them a mile away. Upside down tea cups
Now I don't care. Some girls actually do need them for their own self esteeem. I'm okay with that. If I go to the bump&grind I expect to see them.
If you think you could actually have a GOOD future with this girl, do not let the fake or not fake tits have anything to do with it at all.
My thoughts on fake breasts: You get what you pay for. A good boob job looks good, clothes on or off. If you get it done by Dr Nick from the Simpsons, well, they aren't going to look so hot.
If they cost under $5000, probably not looking so hot.
[ QUOTE ]
oh no I'd never bring it up with her again. Hence this thread to see what people think about them.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, and they are herbally enhanced. But I doubt it
Milla, from a male perspective, my main concerns are what drove her to have them done. Totally understanding that girls do it for thier own self esteem. I'd still stare at them, but it won't be the same as before, when they were small. Shes a tall pretty lady. I must add that Japan is very different from other countries, fakeness is widely accepted along with girls feeling a primal need to tart ones self up, hunt men, get married before 30 and so on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course nobody but the lady herself can speak to her reasons, if she's had anything done. I don't know her, and won't even speculate in that direction, but I can assure you that if asked for the main reason for any woman to get breast augmentation I will always answer self-image. If she has had work done (and I'm by no means convinced of that, knowing how much breast size can fluctuate naturally, and how effective water bras and the like are), and her reason is self-image, then you have no cause to complain; she's merely doing the boobie equivalent of getting a tattoo or having her teeth capped.
If you're not going to take her word for it there are ways to suss it out for yourself. If she has had work done recently you can see for yourself easily enough - even the best surgeon can't completely hide his work while it heals. I had a lump removed a few years back and the scar is completely invisible now, but the wound, even after it closed, was pink and then slightly darker than everywhere else, i.e. reasonably apparent, for a good two months afterwards. A good way to check would be to indulge in the pleasurable pastime of inspection her tummy button and breast areas for either a very short incision, or a carefully hidden longer one. If it's a long one it'll lie in the crease below the breast, but that's unlikely. You're more likely to find a half-inch or so scar from keyhole work, using an inflate-in-situ implant. I guess that could be in the tummy button, armpit, under the breast, or perhaps even at the edge of the aureole of the nipple. My surgeon incised along that edge, and it's apparently the best place to hide scars.
I guess my point is that if she's had work, whatever her reasons they're probably internal and involve her own feelings, rather than anyone else's. In that case I wouldn't worry; she's a woman and women do weird shit to feel good about themselves. I got a tattoo, braces as an adult, and exercise regularly to feel good. Some women get implants, makeup tattoos, spend fortunes on electrolysis, waxing, manicures, cosmetics, cleansers, high colonics, and hair dye. Some dress in almost nothing at all, and others buy an entirely new wardrobe every year. The woman is a crazy animal.
I hope you won't let this get to you, be it surgery, natural fluctuation, or a push-up bra. I doubt it's worth the emotional energy.
Implants don't belong in your body, and your body doesn't want them there. If I see implants, I look away. Well rounded natural breast on a women who has taken care of herself deserves my undivided attention. Ones that lay down as she does, and don't stretch the skin around them. And doesn't feel like a beach ball. :P
At some point, a woman's breast will sag. That's nature, as granular tissue is relaced with fat. Exercise, good posture, healthy diet, and less kids can help. A woman shouldn't change her looks. Society should change it's. Most famous attresses looked better before the breast and collagen implants. I like women who know who they are, and don't hide it behind silicone and makeup.
Guys, you can drool all over these women as much as you want. But just consider what you'd be waking up next to if you got them for an extended period of time. Enjoy life. Here, let me give you a preview.... NSFW :P
I'm aware that many women really need them, say due to extreme weight loss, cancer, or bad assymetrical genetics. But then again, most women don't need them, and get them because of the pressure society places on them.
(just my opinion. stare at whatever gets you off.)
As far as implants go, as long as they fit the figure of the woman (even if they're a little larger than normal, but still accentuate her looks properly), I generally have no problem with the idea.
Elysium.. that pict just about made me throw up...
pogo's pict just about sums up what i said though, if you look at the general curve her body makes, her breasts accentuate that curve perfectly.
u say u were together with her b4, so u should know her psychology, or so i would imagine. So she got fake boobs now.. okay.. is she all fake herself? does she put a lot of make up and stuff? trying too hard? is she self complicated then?
if her score is 15-20 than she's prob not worth it (unless thats ur thing)
either way man, the real q is -- is she hot?
if ur not attracted to her, theres nothing here.
u know how it is.. if a girl is hot we will excuse her for anything.
OMG who's driving this car holy shit must be some-
oh damn shes hot. oh well then..
Having said that though there are other more important things to base a relationship on, I'm sure you know that, but if it's to be a meaningful relationship then yeah who cares. On the otherside I like em real, If I wanted to feel a road hump I'd be laying in the street now molesting a city titty.
[ QUOTE ]
Ha ! Even my hot ass roomate looks like that in the morning without makeup but then she puts on the makeup and ...wow ..yay 4 makeup !
[/ QUOTE ]
boo for make up it makes me have to explain to my mom why i have a bit of glitter on my face and clothes and it rubs off on stuff. i really am not a fan of make up.
Just friggin awful. Fake boobs look terrible in my book. Natural, even if they are quite small looks far better.
More importantly, if I meet a girl with fake boobs, their chances of ever earning my respect are nearly non-existant. If their appearance is a false-front, what the hell does that say about their character? And when their self worth is based on some artificial billboards advertising "LOOK, I'm SEXY!" I can't help but think they are pretty f'd up in the head. This held true when I was dating people, but I have this attitude about any women that I meet nowdays in a casual/professional/platonic way.
I hope that women who are considering augmentation will consider the fact that there are some people like me out there in the world.
My only exception is for those women who have had to undergo reconstructive surgery. I understand this, and refrain from my psych-sexual analysis and condemnation.
It is not about how fake breast look (most the time bad in my opinion), but what kind of personality a person must have to get a boob job (or any other kind of kosmetic surgery) done.
And actually I don't agree with milla: It can't be really self-serving, because if it is than their picture of themselves is completly driven by outer standarts (which in turn of course makes it non self-serving again).
So with other words, avoid them at all costs since they are mentally insecure and with one foot on a slippery hill down to a psychosis.
i had mine done and i love them.. no more itty bitty titty committee jokes at work.. i didnt go too far.. just a full C.. i think the breats only look bad when you go for crazy unnatural sizes.. but all the guys at work love them and are always asking me to show them off.. and i got a raise!!!
God bless implants.. each and every one..
well i think it's a thoughtful post, hawken, and i wish you the best of luck with sorting it all out and figuring what's best for both of you. if you both really believe that you are good for each other... you know.
and i guess i would echo milla's rather apt sentiments on the subject of trust in a relationship, and furthermore... do not underestimate the power of clothing and guile to misrepresent the size of breasts! yes you are a man of the world and know this well.. but do you really??
i remember a girlfriend showing me a book wherein an exceedingly crafty makeup artist took a normal, not-overweight male and not only made him appear to be an attractive female face-wise, but also managed to marshall together fairly ample cleavage out of nothing more than available skin and tape.
if you can make a man who has no breasts at all appear to have breasts, then i think a woman with just about anything to work with would have absolutely no trouble appearing to be 3x the size her norm. i'm not saying your girl is using tape, but maybe she is indeed telling the truth about it being all appearance and not modification.
basically your only recourse is to 'accidentally' check them like that seinfeld episode
edit: corrective surgery (mastectomies, gross size difference between breasts) is a different thing altogether. breasts are a key part of a woman's self image and i can't front on that.
Fake boobies? I find them a whole lot more attractive than fake people
Seriously, I like fake ones, I like real ones, I don't care as its not really a genuine criteria with which to judge a lass.
As long as her personality is real and she is genuine with you , what does it matter eh? It ain't exactly a real world we live in anymore, why hold women up to some outdated standard, why think less of one for trying to fit in.
If our dicks were pinned to our chests, we might understand more the pressures women live under. Personally I think that women are the ones that inflict the greater pressures on themselves these days but men join in thats for sure.
My wife spent a few years considering implants, in the end I think a doctors home truths about choosing implants actually means you are choosing a 'surgical lifestyle' and the notion of being able to breast feed first won out in the end.
She breast fed our daughter for the first year of her life and that sort of validated the worth of breasts in her own mind and the notion of wanting larger ones has since faded from her mind.
While she considered she wanted them I supported the idea and now that she no longer cares, nor do I.
I don't know if this makes any sense to you hawken but its hard to judge a person before walking a mile in their shoes and we never really get to walk in anothers shoes anyway.
Working out a women is not really fully possible for a man I think; we're creatures of logic and they are creatures of emotions so really its better to just accept them how they are and how they may choose to be in the future , after all, we ask them to accept the same in us right?
I think the real issue for us single guys is that some of us want a girl with confidence and a healthy self image.
Ryno makes an excellent point about character, and I share that view.
Ror makes a great point too that can't be ignored: the world we live in isn't so real, so why hold someone else to a standard you can't maintain yourself?
In my case I strive towards that standard and I'm miserable if I'm not shooting for it all the time. I don't know too many artists who I admire who ever say they've 'arrived'
Where you get your self confidence is so important. I'm not gunna get all scriptural or quote buddhist teachings or anything but this is somkething mankind has known for thousands of years. True self worth comes from within.
Someone can slash you up, take your money, kill your family and destroy your home...base your self confidence on something that can't be taken away. I'm working on making it my will.
I wanna find a women who finds her self worth in the journey not something that's so...I dunno...fleeting? like her sex appeal.
I guess what I learned from this thread from Ryno is why plastic surgery irks me the wrong way, and from ror I realised why I shouldn't be judging people based on those descions cuz I struggle with them in different ways, albeit to a differnet degree. I have a better idea now of what my wife is gunna be like cuz of this thread though
Hawken I think you're on the right track. I would take the women at her word. People who are dishonest about these kind of things make it a habbit, and it doesn't stay hidden for long.
Half the problem is that physical beauty in our own species is beaten into us by popular culture - it changes over time, but often not enough that within our own lifetimes we can go from being at one end of the scale to being at the other. We look at ourselves and at other people, and we assess beauty based on what basically amounts to a 'flavour of the [insert period of time here]' scale, and where we are on that scale of what is considered beautiful can have an impact on how we feel about ourselves.
Right now a woman who was ideal in the 50s would be considered overweight in a major way, and the willowy beauty of the late regency period would have been considered pretty unappealing in the 17th century, when Reubens was painting his meaty sexpots to loud applause.
Yes, the fashion of beauty is an external influence, and some may say superficial, but how our own looks impinge on our self-perception is entirely internal, and has more to do with self-confidence and comfort in our own skin than with whether others want to shag us.
The fashion of beauty is a pervasive and ubiquitous influence on how we perceive ourselves, and isn't just about how others see us. The woman who feels good about how she looks is happier both in company *and* alone than when she's feeling bad about how she looks.
Anyway, Hawken, all this is so dependent on the nature of your relationship with her, and her character and foibles, and none of us can speculate on anything without being intimate with both, so best wishes, and I hope you work it all out with minimal damage
Replies
so whats next is up to you
I think it's a very individual thing. I would never get them, for the simple reason that my rack doesn't actually hold any importance in terms of my self-image or happiness, so long as it's actually there.
That said, if I have to have a mastectomy at any point I'll rethink that stance. I don't really care about size, but I'm pretty sure I'd feel really screwy if I lost one or both of my breasts.
A lot of women's insecurities are more appearance-based, and if their rack doesn't fit their idea of beauty they may be much happier with help from a cosmetic surgeon. That's their problem, and they can deal with it as they see fit.
It's not as though a woman need lose sensation or functionality, or even endanger her health these days, so it's not the extreme measure it used to be. They apparently are feeling more real externally now too, so perhaps they need not be a loss to the woman's partner either.
What is really important is how a woman sees herself. Most women I've discussed grooming and personal image with agree that 90% of the urge to tart oneself up and look good is purely self-serving, and has little to do with how men see us. For myself, I like it when my husband tells me I look hot, but even if he didn't I'd still do it, because I feel more confident and happy when I do.
Whatever reservations or negative feelings you may have about any changes your SO has undergone you really need to get over it. It's her body, and the woman you love is still the woman you love, be she an A cup or a C cup. Consider whether you'd be happier if she chose to change her breast size by putting on or losing weight, which alters most of her body, or by surgery, which is localised, whether it'd make a difference to your feelings for her one way rather than another, and whether any of this really effects you at all, except in terms of getting used to a slight change. Consider the idea that this really isn't your business. Does she consider it her business every time your body changes in some way?
My cup size has gone up by two sizes and down by one on the past year. I haven't done a damned thing to my rack. Weight-change does that to you all by itself.
Also, lingerie, pregnancy, hormone changes, state of health, and age....
Consider how untrusting it is to doubt her, and if it really matters that much. What caused the change, if there is one, doesn't matter in the long run; she may merely have lost weight around her torso, but not her breasts, or she may have put it on and in her case it all goes to the boobs first....or she may have clever underwear!
If it is implants you may have bagged previous women with implants enough that she thinks you'll love her less if she does it. Maybe you can thank yourself for any secrecy.
Talk to her, seriously and sympathetically, about this subject again. Bear in mind that not all boob-jobs are equal, and if you can't tell if they're implants or not then it doesn't effect you enough to warrant distressing her about it.
I might sound like I'm coming down on you. I hope not. I'm just trying to convey an alternative point of view to you. A woman's rack is like a man's penis - it plays an important role in life, and has drastic effects on self-image. Don't give her a hard time unless you feel you're on really solid ground, because they're HER breasts in the end.
Back in the late 80's and early 90's when HBO and Showtime was showing all the tits&ass bikini movies I was like "FLABBERGASTED OUT OF MY MIND" but after several years of that I got to where I hated them and could spot them a mile away. Upside down tea cups
Now I don't care. Some girls actually do need them for their own self esteeem. I'm okay with that. If I go to the bump&grind I expect to see them.
If you think you could actually have a GOOD future with this girl, do not let the fake or not fake tits have anything to do with it at all.
My 2 cents
What she said.
She says it much better
If they cost under $5000, probably not looking so hot.
I'd say that the minimum cost having it done in Japan is about a million yen, or $10,000
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably similar to L.A in the U.S then. If it's in high demand, they charge more for it.
oh no I'd never bring it up with her again. Hence this thread to see what people think about them.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, and they are herbally enhanced. But I doubt it
Milla, from a male perspective, my main concerns are what drove her to have them done. Totally understanding that girls do it for thier own self esteem. I'd still stare at them, but it won't be the same as before, when they were small. Shes a tall pretty lady. I must add that Japan is very different from other countries, fakeness is widely accepted along with girls feeling a primal need to tart ones self up, hunt men, get married before 30 and so on.
[/ QUOTE ]
Of course nobody but the lady herself can speak to her reasons, if she's had anything done. I don't know her, and won't even speculate in that direction, but I can assure you that if asked for the main reason for any woman to get breast augmentation I will always answer self-image. If she has had work done (and I'm by no means convinced of that, knowing how much breast size can fluctuate naturally, and how effective water bras and the like are), and her reason is self-image, then you have no cause to complain; she's merely doing the boobie equivalent of getting a tattoo or having her teeth capped.
If you're not going to take her word for it there are ways to suss it out for yourself. If she has had work done recently you can see for yourself easily enough - even the best surgeon can't completely hide his work while it heals. I had a lump removed a few years back and the scar is completely invisible now, but the wound, even after it closed, was pink and then slightly darker than everywhere else, i.e. reasonably apparent, for a good two months afterwards. A good way to check would be to indulge in the pleasurable pastime of inspection her tummy button and breast areas for either a very short incision, or a carefully hidden longer one. If it's a long one it'll lie in the crease below the breast, but that's unlikely. You're more likely to find a half-inch or so scar from keyhole work, using an inflate-in-situ implant. I guess that could be in the tummy button, armpit, under the breast, or perhaps even at the edge of the aureole of the nipple. My surgeon incised along that edge, and it's apparently the best place to hide scars.
I guess my point is that if she's had work, whatever her reasons they're probably internal and involve her own feelings, rather than anyone else's. In that case I wouldn't worry; she's a woman and women do weird shit to feel good about themselves. I got a tattoo, braces as an adult, and exercise regularly to feel good. Some women get implants, makeup tattoos, spend fortunes on electrolysis, waxing, manicures, cosmetics, cleansers, high colonics, and hair dye. Some dress in almost nothing at all, and others buy an entirely new wardrobe every year. The woman is a crazy animal.
I hope you won't let this get to you, be it surgery, natural fluctuation, or a push-up bra. I doubt it's worth the emotional energy.
At some point, a woman's breast will sag. That's nature, as granular tissue is relaced with fat. Exercise, good posture, healthy diet, and less kids can help. A woman shouldn't change her looks. Society should change it's. Most famous attresses looked better before the breast and collagen implants. I like women who know who they are, and don't hide it behind silicone and makeup.
Guys, you can drool all over these women as much as you want. But just consider what you'd be waking up next to if you got them for an extended period of time. Enjoy life. Here, let me give you a preview.... NSFW :P
I'm aware that many women really need them, say due to extreme weight loss, cancer, or bad assymetrical genetics. But then again, most women don't need them, and get them because of the pressure society places on them.
(just my opinion. stare at whatever gets you off.)
-R
Elysium.. that pict just about made me throw up...
pogo's pict just about sums up what i said though, if you look at the general curve her body makes, her breasts accentuate that curve perfectly.
if her score is 15-20 than she's prob not worth it (unless thats ur thing)
either way man, the real q is -- is she hot?
if ur not attracted to her, theres nothing here.
u know how it is.. if a girl is hot we will excuse her for anything.
OMG who's driving this car holy shit must be some-
oh damn shes hot. oh well then..
I dont find Pamela sexy a bit, nothing natural about her.
Its sad so many women feel the need to get implants.
http://www.hootershooters.com/Page2N.htm
[/ QUOTE ]
rick that is the type of technology all of our top scientits
Having said that though there are other more important things to base a relationship on, I'm sure you know that, but if it's to be a meaningful relationship then yeah who cares. On the otherside I like em real, If I wanted to feel a road hump I'd be laying in the street now molesting a city titty.
HOORAY FOR BOOBIES!!!!
I vote a good Boob job can look pretty damn nice ...
[ photoshopped pic of pam anderson ]
[/ QUOTE ]
@pogonip: you really think so?
Ha ! Even my hot ass roomate looks like that in the morning without makeup but then she puts on the makeup and ...wow ..yay 4 makeup !
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, and cut Pam some slack here, she's 40, and the sun's in her face making her squint.
Ha ! Even my hot ass roomate looks like that in the morning without makeup but then she puts on the makeup and ...wow ..yay 4 makeup !
[/ QUOTE ]
boo for make up it makes me have to explain to my mom why i have a bit of glitter on my face and clothes and it rubs off on stuff. i really am not a fan of make up.
I don't care if they're fake or not, I like 'em either way.
[/ QUOTE ]
Frank the Avenger
... Fuck 'Em.
Just friggin awful. Fake boobs look terrible in my book. Natural, even if they are quite small looks far better.
More importantly, if I meet a girl with fake boobs, their chances of ever earning my respect are nearly non-existant. If their appearance is a false-front, what the hell does that say about their character? And when their self worth is based on some artificial billboards advertising "LOOK, I'm SEXY!" I can't help but think they are pretty f'd up in the head. This held true when I was dating people, but I have this attitude about any women that I meet nowdays in a casual/professional/platonic way.
I hope that women who are considering augmentation will consider the fact that there are some people like me out there in the world.
My only exception is for those women who have had to undergo reconstructive surgery. I understand this, and refrain from my psych-sexual analysis and condemnation.
It is not about how fake breast look (most the time bad in my opinion), but what kind of personality a person must have to get a boob job (or any other kind of kosmetic surgery) done.
And actually I don't agree with milla: It can't be really self-serving, because if it is than their picture of themselves is completly driven by outer standarts (which in turn of course makes it non self-serving again).
So with other words, avoid them at all costs since they are mentally insecure and with one foot on a slippery hill down to a psychosis.
God bless implants.. each and every one..
and i guess i would echo milla's rather apt sentiments on the subject of trust in a relationship, and furthermore... do not underestimate the power of clothing and guile to misrepresent the size of breasts! yes you are a man of the world and know this well.. but do you really??
i remember a girlfriend showing me a book wherein an exceedingly crafty makeup artist took a normal, not-overweight male and not only made him appear to be an attractive female face-wise, but also managed to marshall together fairly ample cleavage out of nothing more than available skin and tape.
if you can make a man who has no breasts at all appear to have breasts, then i think a woman with just about anything to work with would have absolutely no trouble appearing to be 3x the size her norm. i'm not saying your girl is using tape, but maybe she is indeed telling the truth about it being all appearance and not modification.
basically your only recourse is to 'accidentally' check them like that seinfeld episode
edit: corrective surgery (mastectomies, gross size difference between breasts) is a different thing altogether. breasts are a key part of a woman's self image and i can't front on that.
especially after i got those buttcheek implants.
thats the mythic E3 party.. it was at the econo lounge...
Seriously, I like fake ones, I like real ones, I don't care as its not really a genuine criteria with which to judge a lass.
As long as her personality is real and she is genuine with you , what does it matter eh? It ain't exactly a real world we live in anymore, why hold women up to some outdated standard, why think less of one for trying to fit in.
If our dicks were pinned to our chests, we might understand more the pressures women live under. Personally I think that women are the ones that inflict the greater pressures on themselves these days but men join in thats for sure.
My wife spent a few years considering implants, in the end I think a doctors home truths about choosing implants actually means you are choosing a 'surgical lifestyle' and the notion of being able to breast feed first won out in the end.
She breast fed our daughter for the first year of her life and that sort of validated the worth of breasts in her own mind and the notion of wanting larger ones has since faded from her mind.
While she considered she wanted them I supported the idea and now that she no longer cares, nor do I.
I don't know if this makes any sense to you hawken but its hard to judge a person before walking a mile in their shoes and we never really get to walk in anothers shoes anyway.
Working out a women is not really fully possible for a man I think; we're creatures of logic and they are creatures of emotions so really its better to just accept them how they are and how they may choose to be in the future , after all, we ask them to accept the same in us right?
Good luck.
r.
Ryno makes an excellent point about character, and I share that view.
Ror makes a great point too that can't be ignored: the world we live in isn't so real, so why hold someone else to a standard you can't maintain yourself?
In my case I strive towards that standard and I'm miserable if I'm not shooting for it all the time. I don't know too many artists who I admire who ever say they've 'arrived'
Where you get your self confidence is so important. I'm not gunna get all scriptural or quote buddhist teachings or anything but this is somkething mankind has known for thousands of years. True self worth comes from within.
Someone can slash you up, take your money, kill your family and destroy your home...base your self confidence on something that can't be taken away. I'm working on making it my will.
I wanna find a women who finds her self worth in the journey not something that's so...I dunno...fleeting? like her sex appeal.
I guess what I learned from this thread from Ryno is why plastic surgery irks me the wrong way, and from ror I realised why I shouldn't be judging people based on those descions cuz I struggle with them in different ways, albeit to a differnet degree. I have a better idea now of what my wife is gunna be like cuz of this thread though
Hawken I think you're on the right track. I would take the women at her word. People who are dishonest about these kind of things make it a habbit, and it doesn't stay hidden for long.
-R
Right now a woman who was ideal in the 50s would be considered overweight in a major way, and the willowy beauty of the late regency period would have been considered pretty unappealing in the 17th century, when Reubens was painting his meaty sexpots to loud applause.
Yes, the fashion of beauty is an external influence, and some may say superficial, but how our own looks impinge on our self-perception is entirely internal, and has more to do with self-confidence and comfort in our own skin than with whether others want to shag us.
The fashion of beauty is a pervasive and ubiquitous influence on how we perceive ourselves, and isn't just about how others see us. The woman who feels good about how she looks is happier both in company *and* alone than when she's feeling bad about how she looks.
Anyway, Hawken, all this is so dependent on the nature of your relationship with her, and her character and foibles, and none of us can speculate on anything without being intimate with both, so best wishes, and I hope you work it all out with minimal damage
and now, to the really important question... did you watch the director's cut or the theatrical version of bladerunner?
I really want to see that one. directors cut is all one can get.
I've not touched them yet, it may take a lot longer than I expected. However, I'd have to say that I'm more relaxed with this than before, so thanks.
Don't let that stop the boobies flowing, if you're a hooter-hater speak out now!!