some general questions about gameartists
polycounter
In the last time i got some questons, i know want to ask here
1: are you working at the studios office or from home (freelancing) and why
2: how is the copyright thing handled where u work(country)?
it seams in the us there is a very bad (for the artist) way of dealing with it.. here in germany you are the one who ownes the art you create, you just sell usagerights to the company, but if they whant to reuse or change the art in the future in a way you don´t like, you can forbid it
thx
1: are you working at the studios office or from home (freelancing) and why
2: how is the copyright thing handled where u work(country)?
it seams in the us there is a very bad (for the artist) way of dealing with it.. here in germany you are the one who ownes the art you create, you just sell usagerights to the company, but if they whant to reuse or change the art in the future in a way you don´t like, you can forbid it
thx
Replies
2. I'm pretty sure the company owns whatever I make here.
what i make belings to the company
thats fine for me.. this is work i am being paid for it, i would not expect or ask for any ownweship of work that i'm getting paid to make.
here in germany you are the one who ownes the art you create, you just sell usagerights to the company, but if they whant to reuse or change the art in the future in a way you don´t like, you can forbid it
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Im highly confident that you're wrong on that point, even considering the fact that I know little about German trade law. As a freelance commercial ilustrator, yes, you technically own the rights to artwork you produce. What you sell is the right to print the artwork once. But as an in house salaried 3D artist? No, Im pretty damn sure the company you work for owns everything you make, even in Germany.
I dont think copyright law is 'very bad' or even any different for artists here versus artists in Europe.
Now if you made generic models and sold them wholesale that would be a different story.
When you do stuff for a company making a game you're making a unique piece that by selling to another company would devalue the asset.
At the other end of the spectrum, as a freelancer you can develop your own standard contract. You negotiate with the client what rights they are willing to purchase. Some clients want you to sign their contracts, wherein typically they include a clause about owning all rights into perpetuity in the known universe, blah blah blah. Bullshit.
If you're really desparate for the work, you sign it. But if you have any leeway (and you usually do) you should only sell them the rights they'll need, and offer them additional rights at additional cost.
An excellent resource I can't recommend enough...
Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidelines
http://www.gag.org/pegs/index.php
but i don´t want to discuss what is "better" or more "right", i´m only interested how this is handled elsewhere
eric thanks for the link, this sounds very interesting, i will look if i can get it here in germany!
I said that in the case of *contract* work ( aka freelance, self employed, etc ), you are absolutely right, BUT in the case of being *employed by a game studio* , to sit under their roof and create 3D Art for them as an employee, those laws cannot possibly apply.
Think it through logically. It would the most utterly ridiculous situation if a games company didn't have the legal right to get an employee to change whatever artwork they needed them to. That is just an absurd notion. So you're telling me that If I worked at a German game studio and my boss asked me to change some artwork I'd done I could just sit there and refuse? Er, nope. Nothing would ever get done. I cannot believe that German business law could be that backward.
I'm pretty sure we have our wires crossed.
Mainly there's nothing artistic about creating artwork for companies, it's material, and they pay you to create it for them.. so why should it always be yours?..
I always assume in all cases that the ownership will go to the ones I create it for..
i can almost freely schedule my time during the day as i wish, all what matters is that the milestones are met. i can use my own rig and tools to work with.
no one does crunch mode on a freelancer working remote with overtime salaries in mind
2. all the rights get transferred to the client. and they get all the final assets, not neccessarily all the sources, so i'm normally the one who gets the job as soon as they want something changed.
3. if you consider working with a us company, you'll need to do some paperwork first. don't know how that stupid IRS form was called but you'll have to get a taxpayer identification.
before making them an offer, consider how big the difference in euro vs dollar and the cost for cheque or paypal cash-in will be and calculate accordingly.
but as i said the (german)company your workin on (as you said *employed by a game studio*) doesn NOT have the last Copyright.. but of corse that doesn´t change a lot bc if you refuse to change something they want you to, your not going to stay there for long
And with the full usage-rights they have of corse a range of possibilities to change the "thing" but they must ceep in mind, that too big changes could be forbidden by you
but anyways.. this part is very unclear defined, so its possible for the company to demand editing rights in the contract. But if the case is not clear they have to ask you before they change something
in germany; if you want to paint your "house-with-higher-architectural-look" green instead of red you have to ask the architect .. if he says no you cant do it...
hi gj
thanks for the info especially part 3 ist very interesting!
Seems like the working conditions look pretty good. Funny that they neglected to mention that you can simply sit there and refuse to do any work too! How cool is that? When the boss comes over and asks you to change something you made earlier you can just say 'no, I dont like your idea, I'd prefer the truck to be pink with the purple spots like I made it originally. I wont change it! So there!'
Awesome.
Apologies for the sarcasm, but with all due respect you're talking complete nonsense
Crytek own the artwork made by their employees and retain full usage rights. As an EA employee, I also know that the same applies to EA Germany.
But recently I've started doing some freelance game art at home. I've almost always done some kind of side work.
But the copyright issue seems to come down the principle of intellectual property ownership. I gather that German architects retain IP rights to their houses even after the sale of the physical property?
If I am working as a freelance illustrator, and I create a painting that depicts images that I come up with myself, then the fee I receieve from the client gives them the right to reproduce that artwork, but ultimately I retain the rights to that image, because I created it.
HOWEVER, when you're working in games, more often than not you are working on IP subjects that have already been created, registered, and probably even licensed by the company. So you didn't own it to begin with, and I would assume that the copyright you may hold on your contract illustration of Sam Fisher or Tommy Vercetti is somewhat limited, legally, by the fact that the character was created by someone else, and owned by your client.
And if you're working on game model assets in which the actual 3D file probably started somewhere else, then you're just like a house painter working on someone else's property. But it's work!
I'm not complaining. "If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say." -- Winston Zedmore
/jzero
Apologies for the sarcasm, but with all due respect you're talking complete nonsense
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i don´t force you to belive me, but these paragraphs exists, if you think they are nonsense or not
(if i get the script from my legal-teacher i can try to translate it for you
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It's also a dangerous message that you're sending to people who might be reading this
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thats why i don´t wanted to make such a big thing out of it
The same kind of nonsense mythical laws that I remember kicking around my home country of England when I still lived there. Like "a bus driver should by law be able to accept a stamp as legal currency" or "you can be imprisoned for pushing to the front of the bus queue" ;-)
Heh, football (the real type played with your feet) is technically illegal in the UK due to an ancient law never repealed.
Crytek own full usage rights to their artwork, and not their employees
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ohohohoh daz.. now i have to claim you for not reading my post carefully
i´v said that the company ownes the full usage rights!! they must be stupid to employ someone without demanding that right
I dont really understand what either you are trying to say to be honest. I guarantee you that If you work for EA Germany and make artwork under their roof, they own it, not you.
rollin: I thought you were trying to say that you could refuse to make changes to artwork and that technically you own it? You have every right to refuse to make changes yes but you'll get fired, and no, you dont own it. The bottom line is, the fundamental rights and conditions that you work under If working for a German games studio compared to the US are, in practise, very similiar. That's all Im trying to say. Your initial post makes the claim that working for a US games company you have far less ownership rights than working for a German company. You can continue to argue that point, but it simply isn't true. Working for someone like Crytek would be the exact same as working for someone like Epic in terms of what kind of ownership and legal rights to the artwork you make you have ( i.e in practise very little ). You'd sign a very similiar contract. That's the bottom line. Im speaking from the perspective of an industry veteran with international experience.
in Germany your not able to give these rights away even if you personally, with your own hands and the true willing sign a contract where you give them to the company .. it is impossible.. beleve me.. im living in germany and i have this degree course here on the FH hold by people who have to do with this stuff daily
but would be great if we can agree with "does not make any differences in the normal workday"
ok BUUT.. what me realy interests more is: why are you working there at the studio and not on the base of freelancing? or why are the freelancers freelancing? if it´s realy like thomas said, i wonder why there are people still working in the studios?
Why Im am I working at the studio Im at? Im an Art Director. What would I Art direct at home? I've freelanced before for many years. There are pretty obvious pros and cons of working both ways. Some people like to get up each morning and mix with other people. Some people like to stay at home.
aaahhoo jia .. whe have a agreement
stability in life and job security are some major reasons to get back into a day job.
into the right one, obviously. over here it's not exactly a gold-rush in gamedev. that reflects on the number of available jobs, job security and payment. at the moment i have better options than what's being offered to me for full-time gigs.
going to crytek? former co-worker did that. have heard enough bad stories by now about them. my ears are bleeding!