Industry Wage Standards

Tulkamir

Hey, I'm guessing this has been asked before, however, I couldn't find it if it has. I was wondering about the possible wages for game artists though. Up until now I've been basically unquestioningly following what I want to do as a career. I'd heard the wages weren't great, but weren't horrible either, and that was no big deal, cause I'd figured that I could live with a bit low pay so long as I enjoyed what I was doing.

However, this week I went to a provincial skills competition. I was competing in graphics design, however there was also a 3d animation competition(which required a team, and as I know of no one else living around me who does it, or in my schoo, I was out of luck for), so I decided to see if the guy running it had some more information with me and wanted to try to pick his brain a bit. So, that combined with a lot more talk that happened on the trip has me worried. Basically, it sounded like a modeler fresh out of school, which will cost 25 grand(cdn), isn't likely to make much more than 25 grand when starting. Basically, the general consensus was that it was a bad choice of proffesion as the wages would be barely enough to live on, provided I could get a job.

So, I was wondering what some of you who actually work in the industry have to say? I mean, the people I talk to live in Alberta, Canada, and by no means should know all that much about this kind of stuff, our sole game developer being Bioware as far as I know. So, I wanted some more info on this. If I go to school and pay 25 grand plus living expenses and whatnot, am I going to end up getting out of school with a big debt and a tiny wage, if a wage at all. Or will the wages be reasonable.

Thanks for any help you may give. I'm already accepted to my school, and everything's basically set, but suddenly I've been getting plagued with doubts about it.

JKim3

Hmm...I've gotten figures from 3 different game studios in Canada for modeling. 2 are in Montreal and 1 in Vancouver. They were 32k-34k CDN for a junior. Also, you can look at Gamasutra's salary survey's. Need to register, I Think, though.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/article_display.php?category=33

I wish I was being paid as much as the designers with less than 2 years experience. Even if it was in CDN. I"D be able to live like a fat pig.

Tulkamir

Thanks. I've read the gamesutra artical before, and the wages seemed alright going by it. I mean, 40k american starting wage I could live on I should think. However, lately I've been hearing it averages more around 25-25k cdn. Which is deffinatly not a fair wage, esspecially considering you'd be living in a large city to make it, with high costs of living.

Anyways, thanks for the input. Deffinatly helpful. Hopefully I can get some mroe, I'd like all the opinions/facts I can get.

[edit]Oh, while I'm here, I've another question. I have a summer job (between high school and going to an AI for game art) as a document designer at a local military research base. My actual job will be to do modeling and animation for prototype stuff for presentation. SO I was wondering how much a job like this would count towards industry experience and whatnot?

Thanks.

cep

Sorry for being off topic, but where abouts in alberta are you?

Tulkamir

Haha, not a problem. I'm in Medicine Hat. Why do ya ask? You from Alberta as well? If so where from?

malcolm

When I started working as a junior modeler my base salary was 32000 per year plus bonus. That was 5 years ago so I would imagine the junior artist position has a higher salary now? I've met junior artists who make between 32000 to 45000 no previous experience in games.

Eric Chadwick

[ QUOTE ]
I have a summer job (between high school and going to an AI for game art) as a document designer at a local military research base. My actual job will be to do modeling and animation for prototype stuff for presentation. SO I was wondering how much a job like this would count towards industry experience and whatnot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there are two possible plusses... the quality of the artwork you make while there (if you get portfolio pieces out of it that demonstrate artistic flair/skill), and demonstrating the ability to hold an art job (not nearly as big a plus, but some HR's think that's a better mark on your resume than just being straight out of school with no employment experience).

Another plus could be to give you more time to develop your portfolio, if you go ahead and work on your own side projects for a year or so, that are more in line with game-style assets.

aesir

It depends where you live. If you live in a big expensive city like LA, you'll get paid more and vice versa

MoP

Hey Malcolm, sorry to barge in here, but I was thinking of maybe moving to Vancouver if I can get a job there after summer next year... any idea what the current starting rates are at studios around Vancouver, and how they work out against the cost of living there?
I hope I'd be able to start with more than CA $32k, since that equates to less than £15k over here in the UK, and I'm pretty sure most junior artists around here get at least £18-22k as a starting salary...

Steve Schulze

Standard starting wage here is $30k unless you're both really skilled and really lucky. I believe the exchange rates of Canada and Australia are about the same.

malcolm

Hi Mop, I sent you a private message to your polycount address.

Tulkamir

Well, thanks for the help everyone. I guess that the wage isn't so bad? Haha, I really don't know how it adds up with living costs of the places you'd have to be working.

I guess I'll just keep on going then, this being my dream job, I can put up with some not so great pay I suppose.

Though it would be nice to hear from some of you industry vets whether you think it'd be worth it to start now. (Like,in my position, with school fees and all, and wages as they are, and your experience in the industry, is it worth it? I doubt it'd really have much impact, I suppose I'm fairly set on this course now, but I'd still like to hear.

Thanks.

And thanks for the information on that Eric. It's good to hear that it'll have some pluses most likely.

malcolm

I've worked at EA Canada for 7 years now and I would suggest if you want to make more money get experience on a shipped game and once you have the experience switch to another company that will pay you a decent salary, and then switch companies again and again until you are happy. Basically switching companies usually brings a slight upgrade in salary if not a large upgrade depending on how good you are and how you negotiate. Also if you have worked in the film industry on a hollywood movie then transfer to games that appears to be an instant salary upgrade.

Eric Chadwick

malcolm's right. My career has been an anomaly though. I stayed with one company for almost 10 years, and got nice pay raises without hopping around.

Some of the raises were because I worked my ass off, some because I showed the company I was worth it, some because the squeaky wheel gets oiled, and some because I said I had other offers on the table.

If you have enough drive, you'll get in.

Daz

"I guess I'll just keep on going then, this being my dream job, I can put up with some not so great pay I suppose."

Don't assume that you can't make good money in this industry. There are seasoned vets in the studio Im at making well into 6 figures. However, dont expect to get to that place without a lot of hard work.

Whilst I agree with Eric and Malcolm that the way to get the salary raises is definitely to move around as opposed to staying at the same co, there is also something to be said for getting into a good stock situation. From being at EA for so long I have stock sitting there that will buy me a house someday. Although admittedly probably not one in the bay area ;-)

I wholeheartedly but sadly agree with Malcolms last point. If you move into the big games companies from a film background, you can seem to command a very respectable salary. Which somewhat blows for us industry vets to say the least.

PaK

Wages for newb artists in canada used to be 36k in 2001. The bigger studios bleed you because they have a large pool of applicants...so they are the choosers. Canada is where large corps go to make games for a cheaper price.

You're best bet is to get as many titles under your belt as possible (tough it out) and be as active in your local 3d community as you can, meaning try and teach (even for free) at local colleges, get contract jobs. p00p went about it the right way in this respect.

Networking is also another great way to find the good paying jobs. The more people you know the more chance you have at snagging up a nice opportunity. polycount is a great place to do that, so is your local IGDA chapter (http://www.igda.org/chapters)

Another thing is supplimentary skillsets. If you are a good artist but you can do other things that aid your main skillset than this can be a good negotiating chip to bring to the table. Technical writting, scripting/programming, concept art, photography, things of this nature.

so:

-networking
-strong portfolio
-strong resume (not just games, teaching is good too)
-supplimentary skillsets

As with anything, skillsets without proof means almost nothing. if you can script then script something and be able to show something for it. Better yet do it for cash and get a real resume entry for it.

You can email me and we can talk about this further if you like I'd be more than happy to help you out.

-R

Tulkamir

Wow, thanks everyone, and sorry for the long time for the reply(been out of town). I hadn't realized that the thing to do is jump around, that'll be something to keep in mind. I take it that means that there is a lot of moving involved?

And thanks for all of the good advice and information on that matter. I hadn't realized that going into film first helps get better wages or any of that stuff. Deffinatly a lot to think on.

And I also had not thought about the other skillsets. I'll have to think on trying to improve some of those as well, this has really given me a lot to think on and a lot of important information.

Thanks to everyone, this has answered an awful lot for me.

(Btw, PaK, thanks for the offer, I might end up sending some annoying questions to your inbox sometime soon).

lkraan

[ QUOTE ]
...I hope I'd be able to start with more than CA $32k, since that equates to less than £15k over here in the UK, and I'm pretty sure most junior artists around here get at least £18-22k as a starting salary...

[/ QUOTE ]

When I was looking into relocation I found it very hard to compare salaries between countries because of the difference in tax scales, cost of living and such. Often a direct tranlation of a salary figure to another currency doesn't make sense at all. I don't know if the Canbadian $ jumps in valua as the US $ but this can cause pretty big tranlation differences.

spacemonkey

I've found it tricky to negotiate wages in other countries (ie canada) since my experiences with money are Euro's and Pounds(uk). Does anyone know if there are wage figures anywhere for artists in canada? From what I understand the cost of living is cheaper in Canada but with no experience of living there its hard to make a decision on whats fair.

I mean the cost of living varies in each US state right? so does the same logic apply to each Canadian state?

Tulkamir

Well, I don't know specifics Spacemonkey, and Canada doesn't have states(up here they're provinces ) however, the cost of living does deffinatly vary. That's more on a city-city basis I believe though. I know that the city where I live now has much lower living costs than the big cities do, and big cities vary between each other as well. Vancouver, for instance, is supposed to have very high living costs compared to other places.

rawkstar

10 bananas a week.

DANCE MONKEY DANCE!

Daz

Fuck, you get *10* ?!

KDR_11k

Yes, for a sufficiently broad definition of "banana". Unfortunately he gets them all up his ass...