#6,7,8 - Samurai - Badname

Badname

Ok i am going to try and model one of these guys

I only wonder, and maybe someone can help me out here, how are the skirt plates atatched to the belt? and does the bandana say? I couldnt find any better pics of these type of guys, but if any expert knows this type name would be nice to use in google

FlatlanderGEE

The three skirt pieces are generally attached directly to the chest plate with lacing. if you google samurai armor you should get some good reference pics

jzero

Yeah, chiming in with Flatlander:

The type of laced armor I've been seeing is attached with what looks like a solid row of flat silk laces, like very wide shoelaces. But those are also used to hold the armor together, and the shot you have there doesn't actually show that type of armor, from what I can see.

But it does look like the skirt plates in the photo have laces -- those yellow stripes. Make them go upward from the top edge of the plates a couple of inches (scale distance) and attach to the bottom of the chest piece, and nobody can fault you.

Those 'bandanas' look kinda wimpy. Here's a pic I found that shows a nicer belt.



I think one difference is that the daisho (two swords) in my pic are both in the belt, while the katanas (big swords) in your photo are hanging on straps attached to the chestplates.

One more tip from a fellow amateur: Samurai longbows are bigger above the handgrip point that below it. In case you didn't know that.

Best bet? Wait for vermilion to come on here and set us all straight.

Keep going, man! Looking forward to seeing your stuff.

/jzero

TomDunne

[ QUOTE ]
Best bet? Wait for vermilion to come on here and set us all straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh - such pressure!

There are so many different varieties (and weird names) for later armors that I'm not conversant with them all. What I can tell you is that those actors are replicating late Muromachi or early Edo period soldiers, probably around 1600 (I don't know what film this is from, so it's just a guess). With that disclaimer aside, I'd say those are okashi gusoku sets, with just a solid metal lame do (breastplate) and attached thighplates. As others have mentioned, they're held in place via laces. I'm pretty sure I've got a picture in a book here, I'll see if I can scan it in later tonight.

Regarding what it might say on their bandanas, I can't see that it even is writing, and if it is I've no idea what it might say.

One thing I find interesting about that shot is that each samurai has his katana mounted in the fashion used for a tachi. I didn't know that was done much in the Edo period, and I really don't know why they'd do it at all seeing as they're primarily foot soldiers at this point.

Badname

Thank you very much for the help guys! Its from the last samurai btw. I already started to model a bit, i will speed it up now and post a wip later today.

TomDunne

I, should have known. In that case, it's obviously very late Edo period (or maye tbe earliest days of the Meiji, don't recall what year that movie took place - probably was Meiji now that I think on it). Technology in general stagnated a lot during the 17th and 18th centuries, however, as the country was closed to outsiders, so armor and weapon technology didn't change much either. Those tachi-mounted katana really do surprise me though for happening in the late 1800s.

Badname

wow vermilion you realy know a lot ^^
here is my first WIP

Still a lot to do. Having some problems figureing out the belt (ill wait with making it and see how MoP handels it :P)
And i cant realy see on the picture how the armour is tied on the schoulder, other pics i got show a little plate there where the laces go over. I'm wondering how ill do those laces on the shoulders wasnt realy planing on making them 3d.
vermilion how many plates do you think this guy has on his back/ass? pics i have somtimes show 4 3 2 or 1 so i dont know realy wich one fits this style/period

C&C is welcome ofcourse
*edit umm now i noticed his legs are a bit too short, assuming that japanees have the same proportions as others

Badname

A little update

When is the deadline?

TomDunne

[ QUOTE ]
wow vermilion you realy know a lot ^^

[/ QUOTE ]

The ability to remember volumes of largely useless trivia is my mutant power.

[ QUOTE ]
how many plates do you think this guy has on his back/ass? pics i have somtimes show 4 3 2 or 1 so i dont know realy wich one fits this style/period

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not something that's really period specific, it's more related to the individual armor. For this kind of armor, I'd generally say the entire suit is using 8 plates - three at the front, one on each hip and three at the back. Still, there are plenty of variants and not any one right answer. Go with what you think looks best, or what fits a reference you like.

Badname

wee finaly a friend lend me the dvd i made some nice screen caps.
they apear to have a plastic square stitched to the bandana :S


1. eeh strange things, i never saw them before :O
2. it apears they have mail(ummz dunno how to write it) that what knights use too under their armor. Am I right? could this be?
the circels show how some have the shoulder pads and others dont ;O budget saving? :P
umm bussy week i hope to have some time to work on the model in the weekend.

TomDunne

I'm not entirely certain about the things you're referring to, but... Yes, the Japanese did wear chain mail of various kinds. In this example in particular, the archers are wearing armored sleeves called kote. They are made from chain mail (probably the style called so gusari) layered over padded cloth or leather backing and tied in place. Solid metal plates are attached to the forearm and upper arm to provide better defense in the regions that don't require as much flexibility. Armored sleeves are always separate from the rest of the body armor and can be worn in various styles and combinations.

You've lost me abotu the bandanas, I can't see what you're talking about.

Badname

thanks vermilion, i didnt know about that upper arm pad. Its seems i cant find on any pic how this piece is atatched, it doesnt look like it goes all around. Does it have laces on the other side? Ummz i am thinking of not making these, because i dotn see them everywhere :O

this is what i meant with the bandana

Does it have some significance, wich one is more apropriate for archers do you think?
Sorry for all the questions you have been a great help if you need anything just yell

TomDunne

It's not a perfect example, but check out these pics. Basically, imagine a layer of chain mail sandwiched between the cloth and the metal plates - that's all it really is.

The things you were referring on the bandanas are intended as head armor. Yes, I know it seems extremely impractical, but the Japanese had some really bizarre ideas about helms and the like. I expect the number of times those things saved anyone's life can be counted on one hand, but there you go

Badname

haha funny stuff about the bandana
Btw this chain mill lays on top of the cloths if you look at the pic.
Oeh btw My classmate is also all into samurai he even had some books wich i couldnt see because it had secret moves O.o, anyway he toll me that the reson why that swrod is atatched to the other instead of under the belt is because they had diffrent styles of swords and aperently this isnt a kantana then, or a modified version (it seems to be a bit langer not?)
well i got some time today ill post a new wip tonight

TomDunne

Secret moves? Your classmate is a dork. Those swords are nothing but katana mounted in the fashion of a tachi, nothing special.

Illusions

In the off chance someone was to attempt to go for a headshot with a bow and arrow, that thick piece of plate or chain mail might slow down an arrow enough from long range, so that it did not penetrate the skull...no armor on the back or sides, because an archer if he's doing his job should always have his face pointed towards what he's shooting...

...and if you've got an enemy to the sides, in front, and behind you, you're pretty much f-cked anyway...so lack of armor doesn't matter...

and the sword appears to be worn that way so that in the event that an enemy were to break through the front lines, the bowman could easily draw his sword with his free hand to protect himself...

TomDunne

I really can't debate the merits of the armored headband - maybe it saved a few lives, I've no idea.

Regarding the sword though, it's not as easy to draw a sword from the tachi position as it is in the katana position, which is largely why Japanese swordsmen went from the tachi to the katana.

Badname

I stillhave to workon the head belt feetand shoulder pads

http://www.apollostudio.nl/badname/wip/smry5.jpg
Here is the wire. Comments on improving the model are very welcome

Mojo2k

go to borders and find the book he has and learn his "secret moves" then go to school and challenge him in front of girls! then when he uses secret moves use the secret moves counter attack! you will win him and impress girls! and then he may think twice about not letting you read his book! ..

i imagine the "secret moves" he was refering to was proboably spunk stains on the geisha pictures.

i'm pretty sure the head bands mostly just kept sweat out of their eyes, much like richard simmons headband. the leather bit probably more ceremonial than actual practical armor. also you could lower it visor like if you were firing into the sun, or you could take it off and use it to strangle enemys. or you could use it as a strainer when making tea, or a bandage. or if 30 samurais were locked into a tower they could tie them together and make a rope..

hmmm i'm starting to think i need a samurai headband now.

Badname

Man that is the funnyest stuff ever
I havent felt like modeling lately, i dont think ill make the deadline but ill continue on it anyways.

Badname

Yeey finaly hollidays!
new little wip