Looks good. Are you going to bring that strap to the gasmask in front of the y straps? That way it can move around some and wont be clipping threw the straps as it is now.
wow... Piece is really nice, only crit is the staps intersect geomtry. The light green canister strab cuts into the pocket on his right side.. kinda bugs me but thats it.. top notch.
"I have obvious penetration issues here and there"
Aw c'mon guys, how about some crits for the stuff I *didn't* actually point out allready?! OK, Im calling this geo done, since I am bored RIGID of modeling canteens and straps. I wanna model human beings or creatures. Will rig, pose and post some final renders. Will do the orthos you mentioned too TGZ.
Hey Daz. Great work!
Ironically I'll be doing a ww2 theme for my reel as well, so this is great reference
I think your modeling is quite nice; the only thing that really throws me off is the symmetry of the wrinkles on the clothes (especially noticeable on the sleeves). That is something that in real life would never form exactly the same pattern twice, and I would really love to see you offset that detail a bit.
The textures are working out pretty nicely for a color map. I look forward for the specula and bump maps!
eeh m ive gota agree with mop .... its the best .. not only is it very accurate , but very well made , textured and realised.
while looking at the last post , is his legs a little short? i dunno , i just looked at the reference above , and they are fine ... its probly one of those optical illusions you get from looking at untextured images.
Excellent. that's the correct am,ount of crap on the belt.
Only three problems now.
1.) Mirror the Gasmask cannister and the stap holding it. You want to arrainge the gasmask so that it is opposite the brebag for wegt distribution, and that the cannister won't cause nise by bumping into the canteen cup.
2.) Take the beaded edge off the breadbag, as it's just double walled canvass duck, and is a flat flap, but otherwise it looks good.
3.)Small toilet seat shaped backing piece on center loop of Y-straps is missing. Also the pair of "D-rings" on the back of the "Y-straps" about a handspan away from the center loop, on each forward leg are missing. Those rings were kind of the reason for the "Y-straps" because the early Backpacks and later "assault Packs", did not have shoulder straps, and the top corner hooks on the various packs linked in at the top D-rings, and the ends of the supplimental Straps link into the bottom corners of the packs.
Minor nits:
Texture on the Cannister is perfect. Color, though should be a hair more green. the strap, could be moved over ALL of the straps, as it is usually the next to last piece to go on (the last being one's weapon sling, and/or grenade bags, which you were wise to avoid.).
He heas NCO's soulder straps, but is missing the NCO's "tresse on the front and bottom edge of the collar.
Buttons still may need to be subdiued.
I think the problem with the tunic is that the texture is a little off,lookimg more like an "elastique" gabardine, rather than a woll (and rayon) Serge,where one would not see the weave. Only officers tended to have Gabardine fabic in their uniforms and almost never seen in combat. The fabric, actually would look nearly identical to the serge used in enlisted British BD, except the colors in the Fabric would be feldgrau, alight greyish, and afew yellow fibers here and there (instead of Olive, a speckling of yellow, and some rare grey hairs, on the BD). The "Dead Grey" without any green or bluein it, is for collectors an indication of a mid 1944, early 1945 manufactured uniform which yours , with the details, seems to be a M1940 tunic,and have a color closer to that of the "re-enactor photo on the previous crit. Also the later the uniform, the more rayon was in it, and the more shapeless it looked. really late war tunics had some much rayon they make a noise like plastic "Easter grass" when rubbed and pinched and rolled between the fingers. they also have NO insulating capability.
You may want to move the canteen to the forward set of "D-ring" and loop, or not.
But otherwise, this looks nearly perfect. The hands and forearms are much improved.
Damn that is a crit right there. I think Scott can put a book together with all his crits, pics, and advice from this one. You can call it Ruggels on Daz, or something to that effect.
Daz:
- Excellent model - can't really say anything negative
- So you are going to rig him for posing / animation ? - Good luck!
- i think i would have problems myself with those elbows and shoulders well it might not actually be that big problem, unless you need extreme rotations on shoulder / elbow joint - Are you going to use Maya wrap deformer for deformation ?
All this detail looks insane :S
About the riging maybe you should build a really simple control mesh inside hes colthes and do cloth simulation? As far as i know its pretty much a norm in animation industry.
Ok I think i got all the changes Scott. Added tons of detail, rebuilt collar, other stuff. Tried to cover all the things you pointed out. 300,000 tris. Still working on materials. Im putting off rigging him but I guess I've got to bite the bullet. I might try a wrap deformer S-S. But the problem Ive found with it before is how much it slows down the rig. Toomas: I thought abouth cloth sim, but I think its a bit late since I've built a lot of fold stuff into the model.
Very nice Daz, but that is one very very verrry green gasmask container. That and the cloth and wood should be a little more dirty to go with the helm. But as you said your working on the materials still. Sexy!
Wow, that's incredible. And very inspiring. I've been wanting to try my hands and high-poly character modeling. I might just give it a go if I can think of something I want to make.
The work on your site is awesome as well. Very excellent likenesses.
Daz Geometry: near Perfect. I think you can stop with the modelling.
Materials: Cannister, almost olive green. If the uniform is going to be early war (Colored collar), then the overall color of the tunic should be more of a Cool Grey, more of the traditional Early war feldgrau. Trousers may be thesame color as well, but could be later, as trousers wore out faster than tunics. the Pink Piping on his Collar tabs is for "Panzer". if he is "Panzergrenadier", then his piping would be a light "apple" green.The collar "tresse" is woven aluminum thread (really hard to capture. the collar and shoulderstraps would be a "Bottle Green" dark dark, slightly bu-ish green. Below the tresse on the shoulderboards would be a thin apple green piping also for the Panzergrenadier's arm of service color (<i>waffenfarbe</i>). The leather is perfect. leave it. Skin: perfect, Leave it. Text on the Grenade would be in a san-serif font, similar to Arial or Helvetica, but the legs of the "R" are straight.
Breadbag colors, variable, but the leather facing should be black to match army equipment. the color you have is not bad. canteen cup should be black. MP40 pouches might be forest green ot unbleached cotton. it was variable, but the green ones (slight olive green, for tropical issue or forrest green for continental issue) rather than a Feldgrau Varient. the leather would NOT be blacked, usually, though I have run across some. grenade screwcap, same color as Grenade head. (usually, but adjust for wear,)
Subdual of the buttons, at this point is your discretion, since now it is an early enough tunic to not to have had them issued.
Last picture, probably (because youare so close) This is a paintover showing in my judgement what the colors and materials ought to be.
Hopefully with those color changes, that will be that, and you can send him off for money and prizes :-)
Awesome. OK so wait a minute. The one thing that suddenly made him seem earlier in the war to you was the dark coloured collar right? I did that without thinking about it when I added the NCO piping around it. But maybe I should have just added the piping and left it grey? right?
And I dont like the idea of pink piping! So If its whitish, what does that make him?! Those bastard re-enactors need to get with the program, cos they seem to totally disregard this stuff and mix and match whatever the hell they like. That's what's throwing me I think
I love those boots. But, what I really like is the care you took to fit/tighten the belt around the coat.
When I model clothing, I make sure to put those seams in the mesh, like on the outside and inside of the pants and the inside or underside of the arms etc. Modeling a coat with a collar attached is &*@$%! tough but, IMO its worth it for believability. I wish I could show you how I dealt with the collar area on my last job but, that is not an option at least for a couple months.
All around its top notch and I imagine your next piece will be even better.
Daz , how do you do Ambiant occlusion renders , im trying to do it in mental ray 3.3 (i think) but im REALLY crap at rendering and cant get my head round it.
more on topic , when you rig this, are you gona use cloth simulation on the gun strap and stuff like that , ro are you gona bone them?
Thanks all. Looks like I'll be tweaking this thing forever!
Thermidor: I use the 'dirtmap' shader for mental ray which absolutely rocks. It's way faster than using true FG and yet gives a similiar look. It doesn't ship with mray. Oddly, I cannot find a link to it anywhere, so If you want it let me know and I'll shoot you a mail with it and a brief explanation of how to use.
I haven't thought too much about the rigging yet. I'll post progress here. But quite frankly my rigging skills in Maya suck. I haven't done any character setup since my Max and character studio days. So I'll need all the advice and help I can get! hint, hint.
[ QUOTE ]
Awesome. OK so wait a minute. The one thing that suddenly made him seem earlier in the war to you was the dark coloured collar right? I did that without thinking about it when I added the NCO piping around it.
[/ QUOTE ]
With the pleats in the pockets, and the colored collar, the uniform conforms to M-1936 standards. If the pockets were pleated, and the collar was the same color as the Tunic, then the tunic would conform to M-1940 standards, That uniform was issued until 1942, when they took the pleats out, and made them plain Patch Pockets, though the pocket flaps still had the three points on them.
Oddly now, other than the lack of a combat badge of some sort, the impression I get is that we have a man in his late 30's, obviously a man of long service since he has an older tunic, and has risen to NCO's rank. Looks plausible to me.
[ QUOTE ]
And I dont like the idea of pink piping! So If its whitish, what does that make him?! Those bastard re-enactors need to get with the program, cos they seem to totally disregard this stuff and mix and match whatever the hell they like. That's what's throwing me I think
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on the re-enactor unit. When I was briefly with an re-enactor aufklarung abteilung Unit, we serched for ever to get the light yellow piping for the proper unit. The safest to go with is "White" piping, as that is the Waffenfarbe for Infantry. In short White=Infantry;
Red=Artillery; Pink = Armour; Light yellow = reconnaisance;Light "apple" green = Panzergrenadier. Rust orange = Propagandakompanie (Phtographers and cameramen); Medium green = Feldgendarmerie (Military Police). and those are the ones you would come across most often.
Good Buttons are subdued. Now you just need to adress the base uniform color, and change the Collar tab piping to white, light yellow, or Light green. You may want to go to the "subdued" woven collar tabs, where the markings are a subdued light silver grey thread, with light yellow, white, or light green. You want a photo of one?
Cool thanks. If you have a definitive one solution pic for all the colours that would be awesome
Strange, cos actually the collar tab piping *is* white, so any extra colour you see in there is coming from the environment. I have it giving off a little sheen, since I assumed the thread was almost silk like no?
Looks spot on to me , great work , thought his ear looked a little too far back , but in typing this i thought i would check some anatomical reference , and it looks ok ...
maybe you could make his glasses actually distory the light. at the moment they look very crystal clear. and they dont distort his face behind...
No I think you're right. I think I can afford to push the ear back for sure. Yeah I played with refraction but it wasn't looking right. I think they're just too clean and shiny right now. So I'll probably just tone down the reflection and dirty 'em up a bit.
Sweet merciful crap! That looks photogenic! My only complaints are the look of the cloths.... they just look too new, like he just got them. Or did he? I think it needs a little grim and dirt.
Replies
Aw c'mon guys, how about some crits for the stuff I *didn't* actually point out allready?!
Ironically I'll be doing a ww2 theme for my reel as well, so this is great reference
I think your modeling is quite nice; the only thing that really throws me off is the symmetry of the wrinkles on the clothes (especially noticeable on the sleeves). That is something that in real life would never form exactly the same pattern twice, and I would really love to see you offset that detail a bit.
The textures are working out pretty nicely for a color map. I look forward for the specula and bump maps!
Cheers!
Serguei K.
while looking at the last post , is his legs a little short? i dunno , i just looked at the reference above , and they are fine ... its probly one of those optical illusions you get from looking at untextured images.
like i said , great work !
Excellent. that's the correct am,ount of crap on the belt.
Only three problems now.
1.) Mirror the Gasmask cannister and the stap holding it. You want to arrainge the gasmask so that it is opposite the brebag for wegt distribution, and that the cannister won't cause nise by bumping into the canteen cup.
2.) Take the beaded edge off the breadbag, as it's just double walled canvass duck, and is a flat flap, but otherwise it looks good.
3.)Small toilet seat shaped backing piece on center loop of Y-straps is missing. Also the pair of "D-rings" on the back of the "Y-straps" about a handspan away from the center loop, on each forward leg are missing. Those rings were kind of the reason for the "Y-straps" because the early Backpacks and later "assault Packs", did not have shoulder straps, and the top corner hooks on the various packs linked in at the top D-rings, and the ends of the supplimental Straps link into the bottom corners of the packs.
Minor nits:
Texture on the Cannister is perfect. Color, though should be a hair more green. the strap, could be moved over ALL of the straps, as it is usually the next to last piece to go on (the last being one's weapon sling, and/or grenade bags, which you were wise to avoid.).
He heas NCO's soulder straps, but is missing the NCO's "tresse on the front and bottom edge of the collar.
Buttons still may need to be subdiued.
I think the problem with the tunic is that the texture is a little off,lookimg more like an "elastique" gabardine, rather than a woll (and rayon) Serge,where one would not see the weave. Only officers tended to have Gabardine fabic in their uniforms and almost never seen in combat. The fabric, actually would look nearly identical to the serge used in enlisted British BD, except the colors in the Fabric would be feldgrau, alight greyish, and afew yellow fibers here and there (instead of Olive, a speckling of yellow, and some rare grey hairs, on the BD). The "Dead Grey" without any green or bluein it, is for collectors an indication of a mid 1944, early 1945 manufactured uniform which yours , with the details, seems to be a M1940 tunic,and have a color closer to that of the "re-enactor photo on the previous crit. Also the later the uniform, the more rayon was in it, and the more shapeless it looked. really late war tunics had some much rayon they make a noise like plastic "Easter grass" when rubbed and pinched and rolled between the fingers. they also have NO insulating capability.
You may want to move the canteen to the forward set of "D-ring" and loop, or not.
But otherwise, this looks nearly perfect. The hands and forearms are much improved.
So are we going to get to see this guy move? :-)
Scott
- Excellent model - can't really say anything negative
- So you are going to rig him for posing / animation
- i think i would have problems myself with those elbows and shoulders
About the riging maybe you should build a really simple control mesh inside hes colthes and do cloth simulation? As far as i know its pretty much a norm in animation industry.
I must be shit at lighting, cos I much prefer the AO renders:
The work on your site is awesome as well. Very excellent likenesses.
Materials: Cannister, almost olive green. If the uniform is going to be early war (Colored collar), then the overall color of the tunic should be more of a Cool Grey, more of the traditional Early war feldgrau. Trousers may be thesame color as well, but could be later, as trousers wore out faster than tunics. the Pink Piping on his Collar tabs is for "Panzer". if he is "Panzergrenadier", then his piping would be a light "apple" green.The collar "tresse" is woven aluminum thread (really hard to capture. the collar and shoulderstraps would be a "Bottle Green" dark dark, slightly bu-ish green. Below the tresse on the shoulderboards would be a thin apple green piping also for the Panzergrenadier's arm of service color (<i>waffenfarbe</i>). The leather is perfect. leave it. Skin: perfect, Leave it. Text on the Grenade would be in a san-serif font, similar to Arial or Helvetica, but the legs of the "R" are straight.
Breadbag colors, variable, but the leather facing should be black to match army equipment. the color you have is not bad. canteen cup should be black. MP40 pouches might be forest green ot unbleached cotton. it was variable, but the green ones (slight olive green, for tropical issue or forrest green for continental issue) rather than a Feldgrau Varient. the leather would NOT be blacked, usually, though I have run across some. grenade screwcap, same color as Grenade head. (usually, but adjust for wear,)
Subdual of the buttons, at this point is your discretion, since now it is an early enough tunic to not to have had them issued.
Last picture, probably (because youare so close) This is a paintover showing in my judgement what the colors and materials ought to be.
Hopefully with those color changes, that will be that, and you can send him off for money and prizes :-)
Scott
And I dont like the idea of pink piping! So If its whitish, what does that make him?! Those bastard re-enactors need to get with the program, cos they seem to totally disregard this stuff and mix and match whatever the hell they like. That's what's throwing me I think
When I model clothing, I make sure to put those seams in the mesh, like on the outside and inside of the pants and the inside or underside of the arms etc. Modeling a coat with a collar attached is &*@$%! tough but, IMO its worth it for believability. I wish I could show you how I dealt with the collar area on my last job but, that is not an option at least for a couple months.
All around its top notch and I imagine your next piece will be even better.
more on topic , when you rig this, are you gona use cloth simulation on the gun strap and stuff like that , ro are you gona bone them?
sorry for the off topic bit
Thermidor: I use the 'dirtmap' shader for mental ray which absolutely rocks. It's way faster than using true FG and yet gives a similiar look. It doesn't ship with mray. Oddly, I cannot find a link to it anywhere, so If you want it let me know and I'll shoot you a mail with it and a brief explanation of how to use.
I haven't thought too much about the rigging yet. I'll post progress here. But quite frankly my rigging skills in Maya suck. I haven't done any character setup since my Max and character studio days. So I'll need all the advice and help I can get! hint, hint.
Awesome. OK so wait a minute. The one thing that suddenly made him seem earlier in the war to you was the dark coloured collar right? I did that without thinking about it when I added the NCO piping around it.
[/ QUOTE ]
With the pleats in the pockets, and the colored collar, the uniform conforms to M-1936 standards. If the pockets were pleated, and the collar was the same color as the Tunic, then the tunic would conform to M-1940 standards, That uniform was issued until 1942, when they took the pleats out, and made them plain Patch Pockets, though the pocket flaps still had the three points on them.
Oddly now, other than the lack of a combat badge of some sort, the impression I get is that we have a man in his late 30's, obviously a man of long service since he has an older tunic, and has risen to NCO's rank. Looks plausible to me.
[ QUOTE ]
And I dont like the idea of pink piping! So If its whitish, what does that make him?! Those bastard re-enactors need to get with the program, cos they seem to totally disregard this stuff and mix and match whatever the hell they like. That's what's throwing me I think
[/ QUOTE ]
Depends on the re-enactor unit. When I was briefly with an re-enactor aufklarung abteilung Unit, we serched for ever to get the light yellow piping for the proper unit. The safest to go with is "White" piping, as that is the Waffenfarbe for Infantry. In short White=Infantry;
Red=Artillery; Pink = Armour; Light yellow = reconnaisance;Light "apple" green = Panzergrenadier. Rust orange = Propagandakompanie (Phtographers and cameramen); Medium green = Feldgendarmerie (Military Police). and those are the ones you would come across most often.
Hope this helps.
Scott
riggin , well , you know its one of my demons
Scott
For the Dirtmap shader. Both XSI and Maya along with the documents and source code.
thanks again
Still perpetually material tweaking. I lost the dark collar Scott. Not everything in this .mov is subdivided.
Scott
Strange, cos actually the collar tab piping *is* white, so any extra colour you see in there is coming from the environment. I have it giving off a little sheen, since I assumed the thread was almost silk like no?
maybe you could make his glasses actually distory the light. at the moment they look very crystal clear. and they dont distort his face behind...
really , im nit picking , its great work.