basic female model crits please

spider2cool

This is my first model on 3d studio max...I have been using gmax, so I am kinda getting use to all the new extra tools. I need some crits on her. I want her to be kinda realistic but not really. I am kinda trying to stick to a comic style. let me know what is good and needs work. I am still trying to figure out all the tools. I know she can look better.

http://img160.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img160&image=femalesnapshots21ej.jpg

http://img133.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img133&image=femalesnapshot0ia.jpg

poopinmymouth

Hey there. Lots of good stuff going on in this model, but some parts seem wonky. Her side profile seems way cartoony, and in certain areas she just looks like she is squished. the breasts don't really sit naturally on her ribcage either. Her ankles and feet look really crazy.

palm

Not bad for your first model.
Maybe you should go for the realistic style first.

Even if its a semi comic style thingy, the muscles etc are still located at the same places.

/Palm

spider2cool

hmm...I will look at fixing the profile. she started out as a flat object from the front and I have been having a hard time with the profile. How should I edit the breasts to sit more naturally. now that I think about it the feet and ankles do look off. thanx guys. I will try to update and reply asap.

KevinCoyle

Are you going to skin clothing/shoes on her? The breasts almost look as though they're supported by a braw, try relaxing them a bit if that's not your goal. have then rest downwards a bit more rather then straight out. As for the feet, if she's not suppose to have shoes on, with the level of detail you have you should probably give her toes, otherwise is just needs some reshaping. But nice job overall

Asthane

Aside from what has already been mentioned, I see two common mistakes: First, the lower legs look much too thin, even for a cartoon-- second, the eyes should be about halfway up the head (Harder to judge with the mouth open).

Better advice though, is-- especially when starting out, don't just draw/model without any reference. You may think you know what a face looks like, after all you may see as many as a hundred in a day-- but you don't. It takes a conscious shift from recognition to examination to actually look at and study shapes, especially when it comes to something so vital and distinguishable as the face.

Seyiji

But he did have a reference the problem here is he drew it himself (which isn't really a problem since its pretty good)


Maybe he should have "pimped" the reference first?

spider2cool

I also used a picture of an actual girl for the face. I used the front of the face and her profile. Other than saying it looks bad, what can I do to fix the problem?

Asthane

Well, you can follow your concept ^^;;

The concept is certainly decent... But I fail to see a whole lot of relation with the model?


The most glaring thing is, as I mentioned, the eye position. Because the face is the focal point of the head, and hair, which divides the visible surface of the head into sepperate, smaller sections, it's a common mistake to make the top of the head half the height it should be.

Like I said do some anatomy study and learn to really look at things. Practice is all there is to it.

Could you also post the head reference you used? I'm curious. The tilt of the head is another thing that's easy to miss, that could lead to proportional artifacts.

[edit] Actually, though, cutting out the open mouth does wonders for the look, still, try to stay closer to your concept art.

spider2cool

I realy understand what you are saying Asthane, I was just trying something different. As you can tell by my sketch reference I use this concept all the time. I was trying to see if using a real picture of a real girl would work.

http://img157.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img157&image=reference3es.jpg

*note this is after I made some changes when I was done using the reference.

I totaly feel what you are saying though Asthane.

I have made some changes to the model. I have not touched the face yet but that is the next thing I will get on. I widened her profile a little and tryied to fix the boobs so they are not so perky but more resting. I really do not want her to look like an old lady. I also made the feet more feminen and less cartoony. I was told by a friend that she had no ass so I made it a little bigger too.

http://img159.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img159&image=femalesnapshots30lr.jpg

spider2cool

ok I worked on the face. I took alot of Asthane's advise. I even tilted her head forward some. I guess you should not mess with something if it works. I admit it only made her look like crap using a real girls face. better stick to the fake ones. lol. well I like the way it looks alot better. I admit she did look kinda funky there for a while. but feel free to crit on the newer face. I am sure it could use some touchups.

http://img160.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img160&image=femalesnapshots49sj.jpg

Asthane

Looking better. The next thing I'd suggest is for you to try to work for better/smoother topology. Not only will it be pretty much required if you ever want to animate, but it will improve the look and help you get the shapes you want.

Take a look at this model and you can see some of the basics. Concentric circles around the eyes, lines running along the folds of the skin and following the flow of fat. Now, I'm not the best at doing faces, though I know I come off as a little bit of a know-it-all sometimes, but hopefully you can see what I mean. You don't want it to look like you took a box (or a sphere), and just moved the lines in and out to where they would be. Doing that will give you the shape of the face, yes, and if polygons were water, it might be acceptable, but you can do it much better, and with far fewer polygons if you do what you can to follow the contours of the face.

As for the concept art. Aside from the fact that the face looks a little unnatural to me (Proof again that reality often does not live up to our assumptions) I wouldn't say it's a real vs. fake problem, so much as it's just having two totally different concepts to work from. There are some pretty major differences between anime and real people. Jawlines are one. In anime, you can get away with the pointed jaws, but in reality, generally women have rounder faces/jawlines, and the cheeks become much more noticable. The larger eyes can also end up effecting the scaling, and warranting larger than normal foreheads/skulls (Which is one of the things I still catch myself doing.)

I don't doubt that if you copied the human reference perfectly, it could have looked good, but one thing you'd have to do, would definitely be to keep the eye sockets in check. Whichever reference you choose, just try to stick to it, or things close to it. You might learn more if you worked with the real one though. There's a lot of information that's lost in line art.

Well, I guess I've said enough. Again I apologize if I come off as if I know everything, I'm just trying to help.

spider2cool

Hey I take no affence. I enjoy crits. It makes me a better artist to know what I am doing wrong. I will study the piece of art you posted.

Asthane

Eheh, well, I don't know if it's really worth studying but go right ahead. I only posted that one (mine, at the point of rigging I was at when I posted that message :P) because my list of art bookmarks is far smaller than I'd like to admit -_-;;

spider2cool

ok I took Asthane's advise and I tried this tecnique. I really need some crits on this. I think it looks ok, but I am sure someone somewhere can find fault in it. I think it looks alot better...more realistic. thanks Asthane

spider2cool

I added some more changes. I added eyelashes...right now it looks funky but it serves a purpose. it will look better once I add texture. oh yeah I added nipples...so WARNING SOME NUDITY.
http://img58.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img58&image=femalesnapshots69pc.jpg
I tried to relax the breasts as well to make them look more real.