Rant about priorities
polycounter lvl 19
Ok, this is longwinded to the extreme. I am probably going to publish this on my website as a paper after getting some feedback from you guys. I have been thinking long and hard about this, and I figured the best way to figure out how I stand is to write it down. Here we go.
Priorities
Regardless of your field, if you are involved in the arts, you will have to make a decision about your priorities. It might be a willful decision, or it might be subconscious, but you will make a decision. There are two ends to the spectrum. On the one side you have passion. Passion here is defined as your desire to make something that is the epitome of your craft. The ultimate creation of yours, no compromises, no deadlines, just a pure masterpiece. Pouring your all into a singular piece of work until it meets your ultimate satisfaction. On the other end of the spectrum you have a comfortable life. You have the funds to pay all your bills, plus some left over for fun gadgets, a nice car, and vacations every year. You will probably have a family, a pet or two, and a nice house.
Everyone who considers themselves an artist falls somewhere on this spectrum. For most its about keeping a good balance between the two. For some its an all consuming passion, and everything else takes backseat. And still others consider art merely a way to provide for their comfortable lifestyle. The majority will fall in the middle, as it takes a unique individual to put his art above all else, and most artists can't in good conscious use their art only to further their lifestyle, they want some measure of creativity.
In every artistic industry, be it music, film, games, or traditional art, the large companies show a sliding scale of priorities as it goes up the hierarchy. The lowest level employees, or the grunts as I call them, put their artistic passion as a high priority. Being at the lowest level of the corporate structure, they don't make a lot of money, but are doing it purely because its a way to meet their bare necessities in life, while working on their art all day long. As you go up the company structure, the priorities tend to shift more towards a comfortable lifestyle, and more and more are the employees able to make compromises on their artistic passions, in order to make the most money possible. These higher level employees might profess with their mouth that they care about artistic passion, but their actions and choices show that is not their true priority.
As a side note, I need to clear up something. The base level of an art form is simple enough that anyone can appreciate it. It takes no formal education to understand, and is therefor approachable. Examples would be, Hollywood blockbuster movies, the billboard hot 100 music, video games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo2. The problem many times with this level of art, is that it is designed for marketability. It is supposed to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, because its purpose is to generate money, not be an advanced art form. Many times this results in a dumbing down to the lowest common denominator, because the average person lacks any education in the art field in question.
The next level of art is a bit more advanced, and is normally only appreciated by people who are educated and trained in that field. One annoying habit of the people who appreciate this art level, is the tendency to look down snobbishly on those that enjoy the base level of art. Music snobs who listen to only experimental or off label bands, and will try to make others feel inferior for listening to the radio, would be a classic example of this. Independent film followers will sometimes do the same for people who enjoy Hollywood films. The same happens in the game industry. The worst offenders of this however, are traditional artists. Any art that is inaccessible to the layman, in either its complexity, or its need for an education to fully appreciate, will have followers that take some perverse delight in understanding this art, and will lord it over anyone who only cares for the more approachable art styles.
However the thing many of these elitist art types fail to realize is that the ultimate art level is that which is both technically advanced, and approachable to the layman. Since many game artists will be reading this, the best example I can think of is Halflife 2. Even the most elite gamer can appreciate its wonderfully fresh game mechanics, but the average gamer will be able to pick it up and play it as well. For music, the great composers were able to accomplish similar feats with their symphonies. The old world masters did this as well.
Back to the topic of priorities. So as a comfortable lifestyle moves up your list of priorities, you are willing to make more and more sacrifices relating to artistic passion. If you were to stick to your guns and keep your product as artistic as possible, you will alienate all but a niche market. And to go beyond that threshold to the technically advanced and approachable art is very expensive. So the easiest way to proceed is to sacrifice artistic passion, and make a very palatable and thus many times watered down product. This means at the highest level where only money matters as a priority, you care nothing about the art level of your product. The only reason any product by a large company contains any artistic passion whatsoever is because of the base level employees willing to sacrifice their personal lives to get in as much artistic passion as possible. Its in spite of the managers and CEO's intentions that these products are worthwhile in an artistic sense, not because of them.
This is especially true in the video game publisher developer world. Publishers care for nothing but comfortable lifestyle or more simply put, money. Developers care more for the artistic passion, but rely on the money from the publishers to make their product. Even within the Developer studio there is that hierarchy of priorities. The owners and managers care about their comfortable lifestyles a bit more than making a great game. As it goes down the chain the priority of making great art starts to overshadow just making money, and thats why the games that come out have some level of artistic merit regardless of the actions or intentions of the managers, owners, and publishers.
In any art field, if your true priority is your artistic passion, you should work in another field during the day, and keep your art as a hobby. Any time you are being paid to do your artwork, you will answer to someone else, an it will force you to make sacrifices. The person in charge will either want you at worst to dumb it down, and at best just change it to their preference away from your own. Either way its not your true vision, and it won't be fully satisfying you as an artist.
For myself, I work at a studio during the day to pay my bills, but then I come home and work several more hours on personal projects. I get to call all the shots, and make all the decisions. If something needs extending, I just work on it longer. I answer to no one, and thats truly satisfying to me. I work at a studio because I enjoy working on a project that is bigger than I myself could complete on my own, even given an infinite amount of time. I also enjoy working with an art team where I can learn and grow with my abilities. Its a balance of not getting everything I want artistically, but I get a great deal in return for those sacrifices.
In closing, realize that any time you are being paid for your art, you will have to make sacrifices. Just expect it. If you truly want to make something revolutionary, work on your art in your spare time. This will make you sacrifice your comfortable lifestyle because it might not leave time to work on your house, have a family, a dog, or a nice car, but in the end you are satisfying your main priority. If you want a balance, be prepared to make sacrifices in both areas.
No man can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one, and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other. Mathew 6:24
*edited for the grammar nazi's
Priorities
Regardless of your field, if you are involved in the arts, you will have to make a decision about your priorities. It might be a willful decision, or it might be subconscious, but you will make a decision. There are two ends to the spectrum. On the one side you have passion. Passion here is defined as your desire to make something that is the epitome of your craft. The ultimate creation of yours, no compromises, no deadlines, just a pure masterpiece. Pouring your all into a singular piece of work until it meets your ultimate satisfaction. On the other end of the spectrum you have a comfortable life. You have the funds to pay all your bills, plus some left over for fun gadgets, a nice car, and vacations every year. You will probably have a family, a pet or two, and a nice house.
Everyone who considers themselves an artist falls somewhere on this spectrum. For most its about keeping a good balance between the two. For some its an all consuming passion, and everything else takes backseat. And still others consider art merely a way to provide for their comfortable lifestyle. The majority will fall in the middle, as it takes a unique individual to put his art above all else, and most artists can't in good conscious use their art only to further their lifestyle, they want some measure of creativity.
In every artistic industry, be it music, film, games, or traditional art, the large companies show a sliding scale of priorities as it goes up the hierarchy. The lowest level employees, or the grunts as I call them, put their artistic passion as a high priority. Being at the lowest level of the corporate structure, they don't make a lot of money, but are doing it purely because its a way to meet their bare necessities in life, while working on their art all day long. As you go up the company structure, the priorities tend to shift more towards a comfortable lifestyle, and more and more are the employees able to make compromises on their artistic passions, in order to make the most money possible. These higher level employees might profess with their mouth that they care about artistic passion, but their actions and choices show that is not their true priority.
As a side note, I need to clear up something. The base level of an art form is simple enough that anyone can appreciate it. It takes no formal education to understand, and is therefor approachable. Examples would be, Hollywood blockbuster movies, the billboard hot 100 music, video games like Grand Theft Auto and Halo2. The problem many times with this level of art, is that it is designed for marketability. It is supposed to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, because its purpose is to generate money, not be an advanced art form. Many times this results in a dumbing down to the lowest common denominator, because the average person lacks any education in the art field in question.
The next level of art is a bit more advanced, and is normally only appreciated by people who are educated and trained in that field. One annoying habit of the people who appreciate this art level, is the tendency to look down snobbishly on those that enjoy the base level of art. Music snobs who listen to only experimental or off label bands, and will try to make others feel inferior for listening to the radio, would be a classic example of this. Independent film followers will sometimes do the same for people who enjoy Hollywood films. The same happens in the game industry. The worst offenders of this however, are traditional artists. Any art that is inaccessible to the layman, in either its complexity, or its need for an education to fully appreciate, will have followers that take some perverse delight in understanding this art, and will lord it over anyone who only cares for the more approachable art styles.
However the thing many of these elitist art types fail to realize is that the ultimate art level is that which is both technically advanced, and approachable to the layman. Since many game artists will be reading this, the best example I can think of is Halflife 2. Even the most elite gamer can appreciate its wonderfully fresh game mechanics, but the average gamer will be able to pick it up and play it as well. For music, the great composers were able to accomplish similar feats with their symphonies. The old world masters did this as well.
Back to the topic of priorities. So as a comfortable lifestyle moves up your list of priorities, you are willing to make more and more sacrifices relating to artistic passion. If you were to stick to your guns and keep your product as artistic as possible, you will alienate all but a niche market. And to go beyond that threshold to the technically advanced and approachable art is very expensive. So the easiest way to proceed is to sacrifice artistic passion, and make a very palatable and thus many times watered down product. This means at the highest level where only money matters as a priority, you care nothing about the art level of your product. The only reason any product by a large company contains any artistic passion whatsoever is because of the base level employees willing to sacrifice their personal lives to get in as much artistic passion as possible. Its in spite of the managers and CEO's intentions that these products are worthwhile in an artistic sense, not because of them.
This is especially true in the video game publisher developer world. Publishers care for nothing but comfortable lifestyle or more simply put, money. Developers care more for the artistic passion, but rely on the money from the publishers to make their product. Even within the Developer studio there is that hierarchy of priorities. The owners and managers care about their comfortable lifestyles a bit more than making a great game. As it goes down the chain the priority of making great art starts to overshadow just making money, and thats why the games that come out have some level of artistic merit regardless of the actions or intentions of the managers, owners, and publishers.
In any art field, if your true priority is your artistic passion, you should work in another field during the day, and keep your art as a hobby. Any time you are being paid to do your artwork, you will answer to someone else, an it will force you to make sacrifices. The person in charge will either want you at worst to dumb it down, and at best just change it to their preference away from your own. Either way its not your true vision, and it won't be fully satisfying you as an artist.
For myself, I work at a studio during the day to pay my bills, but then I come home and work several more hours on personal projects. I get to call all the shots, and make all the decisions. If something needs extending, I just work on it longer. I answer to no one, and thats truly satisfying to me. I work at a studio because I enjoy working on a project that is bigger than I myself could complete on my own, even given an infinite amount of time. I also enjoy working with an art team where I can learn and grow with my abilities. Its a balance of not getting everything I want artistically, but I get a great deal in return for those sacrifices.
In closing, realize that any time you are being paid for your art, you will have to make sacrifices. Just expect it. If you truly want to make something revolutionary, work on your art in your spare time. This will make you sacrifice your comfortable lifestyle because it might not leave time to work on your house, have a family, a dog, or a nice car, but in the end you are satisfying your main priority. If you want a balance, be prepared to make sacrifices in both areas.
No man can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one, and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other. Mathew 6:24
*edited for the grammar nazi's
Replies
I see a gaming future of smaller companies, Indie games. Who will release thier games via a "steam like" application to get around publishers. Pay for the game online etc..
That will be some sort of safe haven for artists who want to make nothing but thier personal visions I think. Might not get paid as much or have job security. You just gotta make a name for yourself I suppose, get a huge group who wants your games.
And liek you said... do your own stuff at home.. which is private. I think what lots of us would want is to share our most private ideas with the world hoping we make some sort of impact. Polycount is at least one way of doing it. but its just a pic post. or something small. Man.. that'd be great win the lotto... and just make the game you always wanted, no one can argue with you. However... thats totally unrealistic, but I sure would want to make a game like that.
I know there are people who've have lost of love for making art, or unique game design the higher they get. every now and then you'll get someone high up whos still passionate about art and games. I really like when i see that.
.
- Good article overall, I think it will spark some heavy thinking in people which is good.
- Could use some condensing. There are places where you could shorten or cut out sentences while still getting the point across.
- Maybe it's just the way I'm reading it, but some parts of it seem to be presentating an image of the artists as the heroes and the managers and CEOs of the publishing companies as the enemy. You make a blanket statement that, "Publishers care for nothing but comfortable lifestyle or more simply put, money". Statements like that either a) people won't agree with, thereby lessening support for your main point, or b) people will accept blindly as fact which isn't good for the industry. These kinds of thoughts, while popularly believed to be true, foster an "us versus them" mentality that I don't think is healthy for the industry. And I'm sure there are at least a few people employed by publishers that care about the artistic merits of a game.
- I think you're basic premis as I see it, which can summed up with this sentence, "So as a comfortable lifestyle moves up your list of priorities, you are willing to make more and more sacrifices relating to artistic passion.", is flawed. I don't agree that that you lose your artistic passion becuase you start wanting more money. In fact, I don't believe you lose your passion at all. It's not sliding scale like you're presenting here. I think it's two completely seperate scales, and one doesn't need to go down while the other goes up. While you're young and have few responsabilities it's easy to be passionate about art and not care about money and all the other things you don't have yet. But as you get older and take on the responsibilities of loved ones and a family, you naturally want to be able to support those people. And it's not just about your own personal desire for money.
I guess it depends on how you define passion. You're defining it in two ways, as a feeling that is so overwhelming that you ignore everything else around you, and as a desire to create something that speaks to you personally, is the best you can make it, and without compromising. I would take the second meaning and say my passion for art hasn't fallen one bit since my days of working as a grunt for no money. And I would reserve the first meaning for antisocial misfits that probably smell really bad.
- But like I said, good article. And it really got me thinking, which was probably your main goal to begin with.
As game artists, I think work needs to serve the game experience. A piece of game art that is a beauty to behold on it's own may actually detract from the player's overall enjoyment of the game. It might be glaringly inconsistent or take so long to create that the artist didn't have time to make a cool boss monster.
Maybe your article should be about being a game developer by day, and an artist by night. If you want to do great things in the game industry, you're going to either have to give up being an 'artist' in the traditional sense, or, do it in your spare time.
That's not necesarily what I believe, I'm just trying to understand your message.
Thanks for the book recomendation Eli, go go roommates!
I completely understand what youre trying to say but the first thing you need to start separating is the I scenario when your talking about a project that is bigger than yourself. If everyone on the project produced work to their own taste and passion you would have a hodgepodge art design and thus a failed art design as a whole. Its important to have a uniform art style/design as a game is seen as a complete piece of art and is not separated by its individual pieces. When I see reviews that focus on one aspect of the artistic vision of a game (like characters vs. the environments) then the artistic vision has failed. This is why a good Art/Creative director is important to a project. There is a need for one person (or a committee in some cases) that can wrangle and bring together a uniform artistic vision.
I also dont necessarily agree with the balls to the wall pure artist versus the world perception when it comes to moving up the ladder or when it comes to choosing to value ones life over the needs of a project. Ill break down my thoughts on both situations (in my case they are very much linked).
When youre a grunt its easy to focus in on your specific task and to beat your chest about its the art that matters. When you begin moving up you have to start thinking further out then your one specific art task. The hire you go the more responsibility to the project as a whole you gain. You quickly start realizing that the one art task that you used killed yourself over is really only one little stone in the wall. Often it will get over looked and its the wall as a whole that matters.
As I got older and my relationship with my wife, family and friends became more important to me, the realization that a job is less important to me did change my outlook on the amount of time I spent on work related projects. That did not however affect the passion I have for my trade. I simply began working smarter. I feel that I produce better more consistent work now in half the time I used too as a grunt. I look back at the time I crunched heavily at Ritual and feel greatly that part of the reason I crunched so much was because of my inexperience. If I had the experience and level of quality I produce now back during the development of EF2, I feel that I would have probably crunched very little if any at all.
My personal life is very important to me. Money is very important to me. Art is very important to me. Luckily, through my hard work, Ive been able to get all three without sacrificing one for the other. My priority is living life to its fullest and getting as far as I can during this short stint I have on this world.
- BoBo
Simply not true. Did Picasso have a day job? What is true is it takes a very focused outlook.
As it is, can one truly become a master with one's time split as you put it? If they are spending half their time.. I don't know.. serving food. While the other half painting. Will they ever be able to fully take their art to the next level?
I do agree on the "us vs them" mentality. Not everyone is like that. Some people becaome art directors for the challenge. As a art director you get to shape the way the game looks as a consistent whole.
Bah, I still like Frances system of actually supporting their art community. As they know its what develops their culture.
good article poop
you guys that do artistic things for a living are really lucky tho ... i would love to.
Then again some folks just acrue power BECAUSE of their artistic bision and how it resonates with the buying public. Look at Pixar. for them the integrity of their scripts and story supercedes any corporate considerations, because they pursue Artistic excellence on ALL levels fromthe bottom to the top, and even the top people can be proven wrong, and seem to be happy to challenge themselves to take a new direction.
Scott
At some point the things you own end up owning you.
The choice you guys are talking about is not so much a choice as it is a natural transition that happens to every single one of us, sooner or later everyone settles down and looks for ways to secure this comfortable life, everyone wants to be defined by things and people around him, its neither good or bad, its the way things are in this world.
There's plenty of exceptions, and I'm not the one to judge anyone's choices about their life. Things are definitely not predetermined, but society does steer us all one way. You choose to accept it or not.
1. READ "UNDERSTANDING COMICS"!!! Eli is dead right. Scott McCloud wants to go so far back to define what comics is that he ends up goign out to define ART itself. And he does! That's why it's such a great book. Given your intellectual proclivities, Ben, you may find yourself masturbating to it.
2. Having not played 'Half-Life 2' I can't say this for certain, but I kind of doubt it represents the pinnacle of aesthetic/mass appeal fusion. I would go with Ruggels and vote that 'The Incredibles' represents a fine example of depth-of-content combined with sensory razzle-dazzle and mass appeal. I'd put 'The Iron Giant' in as well, given that it has even more depth-of-content. You have to have serious thinking going on if you're going to show up on the 'pure art' radar...
/jzero
[edit] and, I don't have much to add besides what Bobo and the Assasin said. But it sounds like you see it as 'us vs them' or 'artists vs everyone else.' Which, as Bobo said, is going to make it very difficult for you to work as part of a team.
Also, keep in mind that you haven't experienced all there is, even in this industry. Don't make the mistake of expecting every department head to not have any passion, for example.
Frank the Avenger
Your post is hilarious!
It's like what someone who has "sold out" (Or as in Salt Lake City Punk: "No, no, I bought in"). Would say to excuse themselves from their past ideals.
Don't make me bring up Jimmy Carter again!
I let him off with it since he's really just a dumb Yank! Ahaha.
Regardless would be a better word to use (since it's a much more established and sensible word), and I would fix it before putting it on your site, Ben!
Oh, and, yeah and stuff. I see where you're coming from, I think I agree. Probably.
And there's the definate possibility of some agreement, maybe.
Frank the Avenger
At some point the things you own end up owning you.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're like a walking advertisment for Fight Club
*edit*
Oh yeah... As an aside, I completely disagree with Poop's post.
ANYTIME I am working on a project and the leads are talking about making art rather than assets I will run a mile. I doubt you will understand that yet.
I think your entire logic is faulty here because it is obscured by your passion and not yet tempered by experience.
People do no recognize hardcore art as better than good art or bad art, people recognize hardcore art direction and can tell without understanding it, that a team of artists were able to put aside their imature squabling about high art and partially castrate their individual artistic dreams for the sake of an AD's unifying artistic dream.
The reason I know this is true is because I've been the hardcore young man and I've put in enough hardcore hours on the job to earn myself the need for a 2 carpal tunnel release operations on my hands.
It's not as black as white as you think it is right now. There really isnt a line dividing the young hardcore and the old sell out family men.... well, except in the young hardcore's head.
I still care passionately about making great games and art despite being much further ahead than you on the sell out for comfort scale you are talking about. I care enough to still wake up each night modelling and unwrapping and trying to win debates on game design that I think will help to make a better game.
The want for quality does not stop, the understanding that constantly banging on a brickwall will not make it come does eventually come into focus though.
If the rest of this thread eventually moved toward that conclusion and you along with it then I apologise, but I have only read your post poop and it just sounded like the same immature bollocks I used to beleive was true about 5 years ago and I still consider it a great shame that some people I'e worked with have never grown out of thinking it.
When I first started making games I put in the ridulus hours (more importantly the ridulus effort), and continued to doso until I worked for Ubisoft and learned the hard way that in the end, pride in my work is just that....pride.
Sure, I was glad that I squeezed the best possible result out of myself for any given asset. Slowly I realised that with enough time 'any' asset would end up being the best I could manage. The choice you pointed out could be better defined as:
"either you live your career and gleen your self confidence , and eventually self-worth from it, or you live a balanced life."
I know guys that work like crazy on game art, go home and do it more, and honestly never burn out. Burn out aside...It's really a question of how you want to live your life.
I choose that latter, as do most well adjusted people with time comsuming careers that I know.
-R
I am not talking about singular artists having their way on each piece, reguardless of the Art Directors direction over the game style. I am all for that, and most times the Art Director is still heavily interested in making the game come out as wonderfully artful as possible. I am also not talking about killing yourself with insane hours at the job in order to do a good job.
I am talking about putting the art level of the game over getting it out the door a month earlier, or having the CEO of the company dictate how a certain thing is going to look, superceding the AD's instructions. It happens all the time, where someone who isn't qualified to make a decision about the art, overrides those who are. And ultimately those decisions are driven by making the game more marketable.
Ultimately what I would like to see is someone set out to make a great game that has great art, and then the people with the money making decisions that reflect their honest want of a good art level. Giving a good amount of time, allowing the artists to be well rested and have good amount of creative imput. Paying the necessary sallary to get top notch tallent and experience in all levels of the art team. Allowing the AD and concept artist to have full reign of the art direction with no meddling from marketing or the upper management.
Forgive me for not being more clear in my first post. I hope this clears some of it up.
What you're describing is like the Platonic universal ideal of a creative team: it may exist on an abstract level, but any earthly incarnation will be a flawed copy of that ideal.
"It's good to want things."
/jzero
"It's good to want things."
[/ QUOTE ]
Looooool, awesome. yeah I agree its a lofty ideal, but thats why its in written form. Its something I would love to shoot for or be a part of, but I needed to figure out my feelings on the matter before I could know what I wanted.
I don't know why but your above quote just tickled me alot. Thanks for the early morning chuckle. 8-)
but ill just say that,
if u have a passion for art, or any other passion in life for the matter, like martial art, or women,
passion demand natural commitment
u will find the time for it if u want
quit ur job if it gets in the way, and do what u want
its when u have too many passions that things get messy
no mattter how talented u r,
if u dont parsue ur passion religeously, fanatically,
u do not fullfil it
so if someone has been in the industry many years all thru complaining about not being able to fulfill his passion for art, then it is not a passion,
its a moneymaker
and when most industry ppl see things that way (admitting it or not), u get products that r about money and not about passion
My biggest interest at times in talking to him was in finding out if he had ever, in his far longer than average career, worked on a project where everything was great and so was the end result. He said with a smile he had, a couple of times. Thats all the hope you should need to just keep on.
Shot: You're broken english is confusing me..
'so if someone has been in the industry many years all thru complaining about not being able to fulfill his passion for art, then it is not a passion,
its a moneymaker
and when most industry ppl see things that way (admitting it or not), u get products that r about money and not about passion'
Whose complaining are you talking about them going 'thru' , their own complaining or others?
What what is the way most industry people see things that they are or are not admitting, because the first sentence is so obtuse, i can discern no linkage between it and the 2nd sentence.
I could guess... but that would be putting words in your mouth. Also, I wouldn't want to guess as I don't really know enough about you, are you in the industry or not for instance? Is your opinion born out of professional experience of amateur guessing?
That's what Joseph Campbell called doing what really, really fulfills you, no matter what the cost to your regular life. The thing that you would leave everything else behind to go and do. What I presume Shotgun is saying about 'too many passions' is that following your bliss requires focus and concentration, but it is easy to get distracted.
Gonna go across the street and look at some 'pure art' now...
/jzero
There's a quote I like that directly ties in with this discussion, "Quality, Time, Money. Pick two of the three". In general, you can't have it all, but I agree with Poop that it's worth trying for.
and no, im actually not french
as jzero has masterfully deducted from my horrible english (i admit) i was saying if one thing or another is one's passion, true passion, he wouldnt let anything get in his way of practicing that passion. following the bliss, as jzero said
my example was of industry folks who have been complaining about their job not allowing them their "passionate freedom" due to art directors, project production that calls for assests over quality, etc.
if these people really had art as passion, they would quit their job and persue it one way or another
sticking to their job all these years means its most likely not passion, its a moneymaker
i have no proffesional experience whatsoever ror
I'd really have to disagree with you about your opinion that passionate people who stick to a job despite disappointments meaning its just a moneymaker and they should be honest about that.
I think that if someone can maintain hope despite the periodic bouts of cynicism, in the face of the way ALL the world's creative industries have the need to make money grafted on to them..... then they have to be passionate to manage to continue trying without giving in to apathy or wrath.
In a perfect world we would follow our passions absolutly and work with blessed sage like angels that nurture our feelings and work together to promote our desires.
In the adult world though, we all try to make the most of whatever talents we have ( artistic or otherwise ) to survive and earn enough money to live firstly and then work toward a higher standard of life and then save enough money to provide for a retirement that consists of more than bread and water and passion.
'All you need is love' - John
'Have you tried paying the rent with it?' - Keef
Professional experience is what has informed my opinion on this one, its a subject I have to keep rethinking so that I stay balanced between what I want to do and what I need to do.
I'm not trying to be condescending about my professional status though, I want to be clear about that. I just remember when I 'felt' more strongly about some things you and poop also seem to still 'feel' strongly about.
I've talked to a lot of people in other creative industries though and through this I have come to 'think' that what I describe above is the way of things.
Passion is great; however, it needs tempering with logic and that doesn't occur without experience because until you have that, you are guessing and assumption usually leads to mistaken ideas about the facts.
i agree with everything u said
thats how things work in the mainstream path of life,
u need money
u have too many passions like drawing and family and and and and to have a little bit of all u need money
after where i wrote that its a moneymaker
i wronte "its a hope" but deleted it
u said it anyways,,
but thing is i was trying to hold up a *true passion
true passion means no other passion
its a little black and white view but i often see things that way, i suppose
u dedicate ur life to it, everything else comes way way behind in 2nd place
it is a rare thing when a man stands up and says fuck it
i want to dedicate my life to my true passion of filling socks with midget carrots and throwing them at bystanders
or whatever
so most of us balance things.. try and get a little bit of everything
maybe get somewhere with one or 2 of our passions
but its not *it
martial artists dedicate their entire life to a single form, practicing for 70+ years
no work no family no nothing
a few hundred years back when some ppl still did it in the far east, they would get so good they could truly fly in air and all that crazy gong fu shit u see in the movies
so
yea
what the hell was i saying anyways..
hmm :&
And i reminded you of that in a weird round about sort of way maybe ?
True passion, if there is such a thing, is obession to the exlusion of all else. Most passionate people fall victim to that at some point and I would'nt try to commend that affliction as a virtue
Martial artists for instance, seek to attain a balance, as do philosophers and journeymen in all walks of life.
Passion alone is surely the first stepping stone only; for many creative endeavours?
I doubt I can precisely define it anymore than you can
Holy crap. The above article is amazing. Prs-Phil sent it to me after reading this thread. He gives voice to many of the things I was thinking. Awesome read.
"11. Don't try to stand out from the crowd; avoid crowds altogether."
I like that one in particular
Poop,
Generally whatever we do for a living we assume a certain stance of being, well uh, a whore so to speak.
I recall a story about Norm Rockwell and how he never took a day off, even Holidays he always painted. No kind of family life and his son barely knew him. Kinda sad.
Bobo you got a good head on your shoulders.
Rorshach hope your hands heal up. Might check out a over the counter anti-inflamatory pill called Sam -E really helps some folks.