Severly tempted to buy ZBRUSH - should I?

Slyrr

Seeing all the amazing normal mapping goodness out there, and hearing almost every game developer saying they use ZBRUSH in some way/shape/form, I found myself at the Zbrush website this weekend. I checked out their manual pdf, the video of them making a model, and had to admit I was impressed.
I dreaded the price tag, but seeing it was also a surprise - only $500 instead of the gut-wrenching $3500+ for 3Dmax. And so I find myself very tempted to set aside some dough and buy this program.
Can anyone out there recommend it? Is it as easy to use as the videos and manual make it look? Has anyone out there had any BAD experiences with it? Can you export models to 3DMax for animation and such, and still preserve texture coordinates? Does it make normal maps for models in program or do you have to import them to max and so on?

I look to the wise out there for more information - does it look like it's set to become a new industry standard?

I fancy I could make some sweet new models for games like HL2, UT2004 and so on with a tool like this to help out. Is it worth it...?

MoP

If you want to do normal-mapped in-game models, especially organic/alien/monster models, ZBrush is PERFECT. Seriously... just model your base mesh in quads in any program that will export to .OBJ, then import into ZBrush, divide and paint away until you're happy with the detail.
The interface is a little weird and takes some getting used to, but it's not really a problem - once you learn the basics you can do pretty much anything in it.

Then you can also use it for cinematic stuff, colouring and bump-mapping your models, not just sculpting low-poly stuff.

I'm not too sure about the Zspheres modelling yet, it feels a little clunky but I reckon if you got some practise in it you'd be able to make decent models in half the time than Max or Maya.

The greatest thing is the speed... you can paint absurd detail in a few seconds that might take hours to do in polys, sub-division surfaces, whatever. And if your base mesh is all quads, you don't have to worry about keeping perfect edge loops - the program does it for you.

I say it's definitely something worth saving for if you're serious about next-gen detailing and modelling... the fact that they used it on Lord of the Rings and Half-Life 2 should be enough to sell anyone.

MoP

JKMakowka

For me 500$ is a lot of money, so if it is for you too, then wait for the Zbrush functionality to come to Blender for free.
There is already a working proof of concept plugin for Blender, which of course is not even near the useability of Zbrush, but in a few months it might look a lot different than now.

And if you have problems with the Blender interface, well the Zbrush interface is supposed to be really bad, too (at least I was told so).

Daz

It is alot of money in itself, but in the grand scheme of professional grade cutting edge 3D software, it really isn't.
MoP has allready given you an idea of what it can do. Check out the d/loadable demo ( although the later versions have imnproved so Im told. The demo is 1.55 not 2.0 which is a shame ) if you really want to try out the interface. I wouldnt call it 'bad' so much as very different from anything else. So the learning curve is there allright.

Ive been playing with the demo and Im definitely about to make a purchase.

James Edwards

You guys will love version 2 if you're only using the 1.55 demo. There were huge improvements to the tools and performance made. The 2.2 update which was just announced promises further improvements to the Zsphere tools which are an excellent way to approach character creation.

The interface isn't bad... just different. It's very focused on keeping you working in the viewport directly with your meshes as much as possible (with a tablet). I think a lot of new users find this daunting at first especially since it's NOT photoshop, nor does it work the way your favorite 3d app works.

The biggest deficiency for game character work in ZB lies in the fact that it doesn't have adequate UV tools. It uses a couple of auto unwrap procedures instead which are quite messy unless you plan on only painting your textures in 3d and don't care about uv layouts. The second biggest deficiency is that there are no proper polygon editing tools for maintaining absolute control over edgeflows and such. You're better off editing animation meshes in a real 3d app and using ZBrush for detail work or base mesh creation with Zspheres.

This link to the 2.2 update announcement:
http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=022256
promises to address some of the lack of polygon tools in a very unique, ZB fashion.

I currently use ZBrush for some character concepting in 3d (yeah it's fast enough to allow that). I generally start all my characters in ZB2 now using Zspheres, then export to a 3d app to fine tune the mesh, and uv map it. If I need high rez detail I'll send a copy of the final mesh back to ZB.

I'm hoping to be able to spend more time working on my animation meshes in ZB2 with this new update coming, as it seems to provide ways of generating lower resolution geometry with finer control - at least that's what the preview movies imply.

Check out another interesting use of Zbrush by Taron, a famous LW/Messiah artist and recent Zbrush convert:
http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=022061
Notice the deformation in the neck area. This is all achieved through Zbrush displacement maps driven by the control rig.

If you do character work and can afford it I'd say add it to your toolset. You won't regret it. Being able to work in 3d without polygon count nor edge flow constraints is very liberating, and allows you to focus more on the creative process rather than getting bogged down in the technicalities of character creation in 3d. Plus it's fast as hell. There is no faster way to generate high resolution characters in 3d by hand.

Jay Evans

buy it. I've been seriously addicted to it since I first used it. People complain about the interface, but you can really fly in it just with a tablet. There are so many things you can do in it for games. 3d concepting, Normalmaps, A 3d painter like deepaint, bumpmaps, bake textures. The new previews they are showing, show low poly modeling similar to the Topology brush of SILO. Probably its best feature is that it gives life back to old models I'd long since given up. Find an old mesh, pop it in Z, tweak and paint until its something completly different. Makes modeling refreshingly fun again. I get to use it at work which makes my day, although guys in the office are getting annoyed at my constant pimping of how great it is.;)

Slyrr

I'll definitely have to take a close gander at it - so no one has anything bad to say outside of "I'm not used to the interface"?

Slyrr

MoP

The interface is no problem at all after a few days getting used to it. And the good thing is, it's SO different to anything else, you won't find yourself trying to use certain shortcuts in other apps
Plus like Jay Evans says, you can control it all with just the tablet and the keyboard - no mouse needed, and it's still fast.
Keyboard shortcuts are all you need to memorise, and there are few of those.

joolz8000

I played around with an old demo for a while and decided to buy Z2 last week. I'm cruising through the tutorials now and overall I'm LOVING it. It's verrry different and I have to tell myself about twice an hour to be patient. It's easy to get p.o'd with how 'counter-intuitive' it seems (compared to typical 3d apps), and I've gone through several tutorials twice just to try to ram the stuff into my head. Overall I'm just giddy with it- there's tons of potential here- it's much, much more than a high-poly mesh sculptor, which is all I really wanted it for. Well worth the dough, IMO.

RealityFlaw

Can anybody point me towards some good tuts for getting started in this program?

FatAssasin

Pixologic

Digital Tutors

3DBuzz

James Edwards

The Zbrush 2 practical guide is probably the best learning resource available. There's not a lot of material available partly because of how new Zbrush is, but also because Pixologic covers most of Zbrush use and UI pretty extensively in this document. It's full of Zscripts recorded right from modeling sessions within the app as well. Zscripts are kinda like movies you can play back within Zbrush, with the added benefit of being able to examine and edit the content that is created within the script.

For other tutorials: http://206.145.80.239/zbc/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Video Training links:
http://www.digital-tutors.com/digital_tutors/display_video_category.php?vcat=zbas
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/


Zbrush2 Practical Guide:
http://206.145.80.239/zbc/showthread.php?t=3471

Steve

One thing to keep in mind is that you'll need quite a hefty pc to get the best out of it at least from what I've seen / been told.

512 ram minimum I'd say, ideally as much as will fit in your motherboard.

( I'm a bit of a Z-noob though, looks like there's a lot you can do to help performance like hiding parts of the mesh you aren't working on etc, I don't know enough about it to be efficient with the thing yet. )

Edit: That sounds a bit negative, I should add it's also the most fun I've had just messing about with a 3d app ever..