Election Recounts and voter apathy
polycounter lvl 18
Ok, new thread since this isnt a conspiracy anymore. Something is off. The exit polls or the votes. Nader is trying to get New Hampshire to recount. Cobb, and even from what I have heard Bardanik are raising funds for Ohio. See this article.
Quote from "Worst Voter Error Is Apathy Toward Irregularities." by Donna Britt, The Washington Post.
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Much of the media dismisses anxiety over such irregularities as grousing by poor-loser Democrats, rabid conspiracy theorists and pouters frustrated by Kerry's lightning-quick concession. Some of it surely is.
But more people's concerns are elementary-school basic -- which isn't coincidental since that's where many of us learned about democracy. We feel that Americans mustn't concede the noble intentions upon which our nation was founded to the cynical or the indifferent. We believe in our nation's sacred assurance that every citizen's voice be heard through his or her vote.
The point isn't just which candidate won or lost. It's that we all lose when we ignore that thousands of Americans might have been discouraged or prevented from voting, or not had their votes count.
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43630-2004Nov11.html?sub%3DAR&sub=AR
Dr. Freeman has written a short essay here in pdf showing why exit polls are a very good basis of how these polls reflect actual areas votes and valid questions/points that counter the "quick" dismisal for discrepancies thus far.
For an article about discouragement of voters, please see this 60 minutes report.
Quote from "Worst Voter Error Is Apathy Toward Irregularities." by Donna Britt, The Washington Post.
[ QUOTE ]
Much of the media dismisses anxiety over such irregularities as grousing by poor-loser Democrats, rabid conspiracy theorists and pouters frustrated by Kerry's lightning-quick concession. Some of it surely is.
But more people's concerns are elementary-school basic -- which isn't coincidental since that's where many of us learned about democracy. We feel that Americans mustn't concede the noble intentions upon which our nation was founded to the cynical or the indifferent. We believe in our nation's sacred assurance that every citizen's voice be heard through his or her vote.
The point isn't just which candidate won or lost. It's that we all lose when we ignore that thousands of Americans might have been discouraged or prevented from voting, or not had their votes count.
[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43630-2004Nov11.html?sub%3DAR&sub=AR
Dr. Freeman has written a short essay here in pdf showing why exit polls are a very good basis of how these polls reflect actual areas votes and valid questions/points that counter the "quick" dismisal for discrepancies thus far.
For an article about discouragement of voters, please see this 60 minutes report.
Replies
Kerry already conceded. Not much can be done about it now.
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I think most people realize that there isn't a chance in hell that Kerry is going to become President at this point; so why is everyone questioning our motives for wanting to investigate this? We want to know the truth. I for one want confirmation that my "democracy" isn't at the mercy of a couple private corporations that are in charge of counting our votes.
I think most people realize that there isn't a chance in hell that Kerry is going to become President at this point; so why is everyone questioning our motives for wanting to investigate this? We want to know the truth. I for one want confirmation that my "democracy" isn't at the mercy of a couple private corporations that are in charge of counting our votes.
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Oh, I'm sorry... Did I give the impression that I was questioning your motives, or somehow not in favor of this line of investigation? I didn't mean to do that, I apologize. I realize this isn't about Kerry any more. He wasn't really "my guy" in the first place (though I did definitely like him the more I knew about him... we need a critical thinker in office). See, what I really want, personally, is for this whole thing to blow up and escalate into an election scandal akin to Watergate, forcing Bush into resignation (or, better, impeachment!!), casting suspicion on the Republican party for at least a generation (though the complete dissolution of that particular gang of thugs would be best case scenario), and launching a full-scale re-examination of the elections system, campaign finance, the two-party system, etc.
Sure, I know I'm dreaming, but that would rawk
Oh, and just so I'm not misunderstood on this point... I don't currently believe foul play has already taken place, but I do believe it's a very real possibility.
Like I said...
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What we need are Dem versions of Ken Starr and Newt Gingrich to just relentlessly go after his ass, non-stop.
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Although I find the idea of "President Cheney" possibly even scarier. But hell, there's probably a good chance that his his heart won't hold out for the next four years anyhow. And the long term fallout and backlash would be worth it.
Oh, I'm sorry... Did I give the impression that I was questioning your motives, or somehow not in favor of this line of investigation?
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No, not at all. I was directing the comment towards what went on in the other thread; the accusations that we are just being sore losers. I only quoted you to reiterate the point you made: Kerry already conceded, so our motivations aren't to get him in office; our motivations are to uncover the truth.
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WARGH, kerry conceded, it doesnt matter what recounts say anymore. Anyway, recounts are generally done by those democrats liberal enough to want to recount everything 4 times, and thus the figures cannot be trusted.
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It does matter, because if it is discovered that diebold or anyone else tampered in any way with the election, then action needs to be taken. Your claim that only "liberals" are interested in a recount or the implication that they can't be trusted (for no apparent reason) is utterly ridiculous. I am a conservative-leaning independent, and I want an investigation.
If anything happened, it needs to be discovered and fixed at the source so the problem can't happen again. Obviously it doesn't matter at all about who's in office now.
MoP
http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1115-06.htm
Nader is getting New Hampshire in part also.
At least now with third parties doing this neither of the main two can whine about the other.
Some very suspicious activity going on down in Florida ... AGAIN.
"Democrats take up fight over ballots"
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/110077402787260.xml
"A UC Berkeley sociology professor, director of his schools Survey Research Center, is scheduled to conduct a news conference at 1 p.m. ET today at which his research team will report that irregularities associated with electronic voting"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/
More News:
University researchers challenge Bush win in Florida
Working Paper: The Effect of Electronic Voting Machines on Change in Support for Bush in the 2004 Florida Elections
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm