Evercrack...er...Everquest 2
polycounter lvl 18
It seems this game has been over shadowed by WoW, also some people just despise it.
Just got it the other day when I picked up Halo 2, and I must say, it's pretty damn fun. People complained that in doom 3 the normal mapping wasn't put to that good of use because all it was, was narrow passage ways. Well EQ2 Has Normal mapping put on large areas and it makes the environments look fricken fantastic.
Though what really caught my eye was the character editor. I've always disliked the idea of having to select a face from a bunch because you know your going to see your clones running about in the game at some point. Well For EQ you are given the body and then you change the facial characteristics, like Chin, Cheekbone, brow, nose, lips, and eyes. You also choose from a pretty. You also can choose your skin color, as long as it's in the small color picker, eye color, hair color, hair highlight color. and what color you'd like your base clothes to be.
Though there are still some things I dislike, such as:
There are barely any pigments in the skin color, being here has pushed me to the belief that if your doing skin on something that looks more real than stylised, then you should place some pigments into the skin. I mean all it is, is like a color, then a small highlight over areas like the nose and cheeks and muscles.
The Armor so far is pretty off looking, it looks really tight to your body, like an awkward set of pajamas.
I'm also fairly impressed with the voice work in it, It's sorta nice that NPC's talk to you, it give them a bit more character. Plus the leader of freeport is voiced by Christopher Lee
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Just got it the other day when I picked up Halo 2, and I must say, it's pretty damn fun. People complained that in doom 3 the normal mapping wasn't put to that good of use because all it was, was narrow passage ways. Well EQ2 Has Normal mapping put on large areas and it makes the environments look fricken fantastic.
Though what really caught my eye was the character editor. I've always disliked the idea of having to select a face from a bunch because you know your going to see your clones running about in the game at some point. Well For EQ you are given the body and then you change the facial characteristics, like Chin, Cheekbone, brow, nose, lips, and eyes. You also choose from a pretty. You also can choose your skin color, as long as it's in the small color picker, eye color, hair color, hair highlight color. and what color you'd like your base clothes to be.
Though there are still some things I dislike, such as:
There are barely any pigments in the skin color, being here has pushed me to the belief that if your doing skin on something that looks more real than stylised, then you should place some pigments into the skin. I mean all it is, is like a color, then a small highlight over areas like the nose and cheeks and muscles.
The Armor so far is pretty off looking, it looks really tight to your body, like an awkward set of pajamas.
I'm also fairly impressed with the voice work in it, It's sorta nice that NPC's talk to you, it give them a bit more character. Plus the leader of freeport is voiced by Christopher Lee
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Replies
Though seriously are these game graphics all that Horrific?
Though what really caught my eye was the character editor.
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Sounds like the avatar editor in Second Life, or even The Sims 2.
In response to Poop's opinion of the characters, most EQ addicts I've known don't play the game for the graphics. It's more the social aspect, and the ability to sell your account on ebay. I've watched friends stare at text messages for hours without moving their character...just waiting...waiting for I don't know what. So I'd say this version will be a treat for the EQ fans. The environments look nice. And the characters aren't that horrific if you consider they have to be customizable. I avoid playing the game for fear of becoming addicted.
I did not think people like you existed, but now I must kill myself. You actually think the characters in eq2 look good? they are quite possibly the most horrible character art I have ever seen. The choices are cool sure, but all you are doing is rearranging the same horrible art assets to look like different horrible art assets. Man, it makes me sad for all the time and effort we at mythic put into doing the character upgrade for DAoC if no one is going to notice. *shakes head in disgust*
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stop being a fan boy for the company you work for the art is fine and looks great, nothing much different from what ive seen on some of mythics games
stop being a fan boy for the company you work for the art is fine and looks great, nothing much different from what ive seen on some of mythics games
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Erm, I believe this is what poop is talking about. A classic case ( like the humans in Halo 2 ) of Tech winning over Art. They're normal mapped ( or bump ), self-shadowing and have multi-pass shaders and other fancy stuff, but she still has a face that....well, you decide:
I dont think Poops being a fanboy. I think he's possibly frustrated by the effort we put into making game Art the best it can be If artists in our own community cant even tell the difference between this and some of the stuff here in P&P!!!
Still, each to their own. Im sure it's a fun game. And aspects of the engine look really impressive.
/but the character Art is truly awful ;-p
In response to Poop's opinion of the characters, most EQ addicts I've known don't play the game for the graphics.
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well that would be an arguable point if the characters looked like shit, but were aslo verry resource friendly. but what you get here is crappy ass molded play dough skin that you need a super computer to run. And i may be labeled a fanboy for my company here, but the character stuff they are doing for the new DAoc expansion here, even without all the fancy stuff like normal maps.. completely looks a billion times better than this crud.
This is basicly the kind of stuff i was mentioning in my thread in 2d/3d about if the extra effort in making good art is really worth it
I did not work on the camelot team during this project, but a few other polycounters did, just wanting to make clear that the character art in eq2 IS much difrent than you see here at mythic.
a)Poor Use of Tech
b)Poor Art Direction
c)Poor Artists
d)A combination of the Above
Discuss
The Art thats beeen generated looks poor, so the artist clearly needed some guidance from an AD.
So, I think its ALL of the above!
tpe
/end rant
Though like I said the human models do look pretty bad, but I like the way the Elves, the rat people, frog people, and lizard people look. They look like they were made by totally different people.
Though I'm still giving the game a month, If I don't like how it's going. Then I'll movie to Guild Wars(Art looks good and no monthly charges) and WoW(Looks nice and stylised, and a bunch of my friends will be playing it). And I'm not even giving The Matrix online a chance...I mean you have to ask someone before you can fight...I don't know how you can put sniper rifles in, what sort of text box would pop up? "Do you want to be shot in the head? Y/N"
Scott
All I'm waiting for is r13 bursting in and telling us to stop bashing his art
If anything, it shows the tech behind this needs to improve. Like maybe somehow incorporate that technology behind that face making program.
*However*, the Art is at fault just as much If not more so.
Tech doesn't change the fact that there are fundamental issues of anatomical naiivety that worsen matters. I dont know what school of anatomical study the EQ2 Art team studied at, but it deffo wasn't the same as mine.
Eyes dont angle down at several degrees like that ( EVER. contrary to misconception, not even in an asian skull> I know she's mean't to be caucasian or something, but it really bugs me when artists depict the asian eye as slanted. I defy anyone to show me a ref. pic of this. ALL human eyes sit horizontal in the skull ) , foreheads are larger than that, skin isn't bumpy like that, jawlines aren't wobbly like that unless subject is meant to be old, features shouldn't be so small within the overall faceshape like that, the hair colour shouldn't be as saturated, the skin map not as lacking in variation of colour.......I could go on. It's crappy Art, relying on tech to fix it.
bad bad bad.
But it could be down to any number of reasons... ie bad planning - rushed development, lack of training for staff, failure to lock features resulting in newer tech that required allot of art assets reworking.. the list goes on. But the sad fact is that its crappy.
I don't buy the fact that it looks like ass because its customizable. it looks like ass because it was made to look like ass.
Tech doesn't change the fact that there are fundamental issues of anatomical naiivety that worsen matters. I dont know what school of anatomical study the EQ2 Art team studied at, but it deffo wasn't the same as mine.
Eyes dont angle down at several degrees like that ( EVER. contrary to misconception, not even in an asian skull> I know she's mean't to be caucasian or something, but it really bugs me when artists depict the asian eye as slanted. I defy anyone to show me a ref. pic of this. ALL human eyes sit horizontal in the skull ) , foreheads are larger than that, skin isn't bumpy like that, jawlines aren't wobbly like that unless subject is meant to be old, features shouldn't be so small within the overall faceshape like that, the hair colour shouldn't be as saturated, the skin map not as lacking in variation of colour.......I could go on. It's crappy Art, relying on tech to fix it.
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So where did you learn your anatomy skills?
Sadly I think you are somewhat insufficiently aware of the horrors in this slider system. The jaw line IS wobbly because you can blunt, or sharpen the chin. You can change the angle of the eyes, as well as their size. You can plump or hollow the cheeks, widen or narrow, or raise, or lower the cheekbones. Change the eyebrows. So with judicious tweaking of the sliders you too could toss your art education in the dumper and make this ugly face as well. Limited dev time, and an unfamiliarity with the making of texture maps for Normal Map implemented technology will also add to this. I was the maps for Doom3, and they were beautiful, but in game, they had a waxy , or chalky pallor, with little perceptible color changes across the map.
But to your basic point. Only private instructors offer the in depth anatomy education that was taught in schools before the mid 1960's. See the introduction in "The Animator's Survival Kit" about the academic confusion on the loss of of traditional art skills. Private instruction is expensive, like about $300.00 a week, but the people with the passion for "art" rather than just games, often will find a way, but they are kind of rare, right?
Scott
Scott
Sadly?
Im still not buying it Scott. I think its a combination of the two, but crappy base assets from which the slider sytem is founded on are most definitely a factor.
Saying that, it's obviosuly not enough to assume that the tech will somehow be this magical fix that can can make drab stuff look awesome. I've been talking about CS-Source at work and how the engine works and although source has lots of the tech seen in Doom3, it's the way that the tech is implemented that just totally enhances the OVERALL feel of the game, which makes the game that much more immersive. almost everything in CS-Source is normal mapped, bit it's done in a subtle sort of way and that combined with the radiosity bakes gives the overall look of the game more appeal.
If given the opportunity, I'd love to stay after hours to learn the tech better or find a good means of using it than just doing the minumum required to consider something done despite how gross or halfassed it looks. hopefully that will happen sooner than expected at verk.
I actually prefer the old school EQ characters over this shit