People with Autism + ADHD innatentive who aren't medicated do you have any advice to be productive?

meltdawn

EDIT: I will try to cut down on YouTube videos while I work, just music.

It's not done yet but this is where I am with my first VRChat avatar. Here's a few screenshots: https://imgur.com/gallery/succubus-Tl1QKzk (contains wireframe nudity)

Hey, so let's say I've had a bad day. I've been working on this avatar for almost two months, I do it slowly because every day is a struggle for me, probably depression which isn't surprising, and it's also my first attempt at making a character from scratch.

I went back to work on the hands to add the nails. I compared my hand with one that is made by a professional who's doing this for a living, I think. It made me upset that mine didn't look as detailed when we pretty much have the same amount of polygons. The reason why I compared is because if my character doesn't look good, who would want to buy it? I do try to not be a perfectionist, but it has to look good, too.

I am mentally fried and tired working on this project, I want to move on, or at least have a break, maybe working on a different project if that is even possible. It feels like torture every time and this is a bad sign if this is what I wanna do for work. I recently found out that I may have ADHD, which is also combined with Autism. I was beginning to accept being autistic, but then discovered there's also another type of ADHD, which is ADD, but stupidly got merged with ADHD, I just don't get it. I did my own research and it makes so much sense why I had such a hard time growing up. I am turning 32 in three days...

I don't want to sound like a victim but I want to share what I go through. I got no job, I live with my parents, I have trauma, and I don't have much money. I don't know where I want to go in life. I want to be a freelance artist making things that I enjoy, selling models online, but now I know I possibly have ADHD and I got no medication or therapist because I can't afford it, I am thinking MAYBE it's not worth it anymore, after 14 years of using Blender. If I can't focus, get distracted, constantly losing momentum and motivation, knowing it's just gonna be a pain down the road, why even continue?

I made this post to give me hope, hoping that someone out there who doesn't use medication could share tricks to make it easier. I didn't grow up making art, I've always been a computer guy who loved video games. I saw the short film Sintel when it came out, and this is when I discovered Blender, and then I went from there.

I will take it easy for tonight but I will be around to answer your questions or reading your comments. Thank you in advance. It would mean a lot if you would take your time to help. I feel lost right now.

Btw you can call me Luc.

Joao Sapiro

Hello ! im sorry to what you are feeling. Mental ilness is not something to be taken lightly. The first thing, before worrying about anything is to try and get therapy regarding that. I see a ton of checkboxes you seem to put yourself on, so thats something i would work on with a therapist. At the moment any help anyone can give you to help "break" the pattern might or not work with you depending on your unique mental state. Get help for that first, and ease off the burden of trying to "make it" when you have a broken mind state at the moment. You can do this ! Good luck and a huge hug to you Luc !

pior

[...] if my character doesn't look good, who would want to buy it?

[...] after 14 years of using Blender

Well, one could spend 100 years using Blender knowing it fully inside out yet still be unable to make anything visually pleasing with it. If your work doesn't look good to you you need to work on art fundamentals, anatomy, stylization, and so on. Some people do manage to learn all that while learning this or that software, but these cases are more happy accidents really (although this happened quite frequently during the peak time of active CG forums, magazines and community contests of the 2000s to 2010s, since there was such a great spirit around this field as people were very motivated to get a job in a cool industry).

TLDR, if you feel stuck and dissatisfied with your art it may be time to refocus part of your energy on art fundamentals.

Also your Imgur link doesn't work, you want to make sure to post the proper public link.

meltdawn

@pior Apologies, it seems only I could see it since I was logged in... Here it is: https://imgur.com/gallery/succubus-Tl1QKzk

It's not that I don't think I am good, I know that I am, it's just when it comes to working there are times I fully want to go modeling, and some days I am not in the mood, at all. The strange thing is even though I know I am good, my brain says that I won't manage to make money with my craft. Since I was young my mother told me constantly I couldn't do it or I wasn't worth anything.

People might laugh at me for saying this, even if I am almost 32, I can be a bit of a baby or a kid. Yesterday, just because I didn't feel like reworking the hand for a third time I got super sad, or numb? I was staring at my screen and I couldn't move, it was like I had zero emotions, I couldn't take any action, then at night the desire to work came back. It's strange... maybe it was my body's way to tell me to slow down.

You're right, maybe learning fundamentals will serve me, since most of the stuff that I've learned it was by myself, not through some videos or school.

Thanks for the advice!

meltdawn

@Joao Sapiro Thanks! That's the thing, I want to get help through therapy but I can't afford it. I wish it was free because I would have gone there a long time ago. My only solution for now is to earn money and then I could go. But there's something you should know, if I see my work sells and I make people happy, I will feel so much better about myself, because it will show that I am progressing and getting stronger. What is killing me at this moment is I feel I am stuck in this endless loop and I can't get out.

What you wrote was so sweet, and I like that you gave a hug to a complete stranger you don't know, because every day I keep telling myself that the world we are living in is so cold and no one cares, and you showed the opposite. It was really nice and I needed that today. Here's the imgur link: https://imgur.com/gallery/succubus-Tl1QKzk

Pior told me my first link wasn't working and I fixed it.

poopipe

I can identify with a lot of what you describe - I'm sure many other people on here can too. 

After many years of living with low impulse control and literally no patience I have established the following two things...
- Beating your face against a problem for hours without a break rarely results in a well solved problem.
- Only ever working on things that have long term value is a recipe for burnout. 

I recommend getting a block of those nice square stickynotes  and a sharpie.  Whenever you sense that you're getting frustrated/stuck/etc. pick them up and spend 20 minutes doodling funny stuff or little life studies.
- it keeps me (somewhat) sane  at least

You use a sharpie because not being able to erase what you did is an excellent artistic training tool
You draw on stickynotes because stickynotes are temporary 

also -  what pior said 

Rima

Well, whatever you do, don't aim to be perfect. It's possibly the worst trap you could ever fall into. It's hell.

Set a standard and see how you close you can get. And when you can't get any closer, call it "good enough" and finish the fucking project. If you can do that much, no matter how long it takes you, you'll be on the right path. How you get to that point will probably vary depending on your particular brain, but make "as good as you can do for now" the goal, and just try to do better next time instead of beating yourself up.

Noren

Well, I probably suck at giving advice for what you actually asked for, but there are time management techniques/apps/websites like Pomodoro that might help you to stay focused by breaking down your sessions into smaller bits with regular breaks.

But looking at your model, it would probably help to plan ahead a bit more. It looks like you modeled all fingers individually, or at least switched to individual versions too early. I bet many people would find that way of working somewhat tiring. Do one more or less complete finger first and copy that around. You could still do this now and be faster than if you continue down the current path.

Also, while it almost seems to be self-explanatory, do you understand why the other model looks like it has more detail? 

Work from big to small, from rough to fine, don't raise your resolution or detail too early.

And art fundamentals are definitely important. A separate hand study, maybe even "just" sketching wouldn't be the worst of ideas.

There is no shame in taking a break or switching to another project, even if you never return. Obviously it becomes a problem if you do it all the time and it's only possible with your own private stuff, but I bet most artists have plenty of unfinished stuff lying around.

meltdawn

@Noren Thanks Noren! The entire model has been modeled with box modeling. What I did with the hand is I modeled it separately, then for the fingers I did an extrude, slowly adding details individually. The fingers were always attached to the hand. The thing that messes me up is this guy uses tris, and I know that tris are bad when it comes to using subdivision. I am guessing what he did is he makes it all quad, subdivide it once and then starts adding the tris to remove a few polygons and making it more optimised. I always work with as few polygons as possible, and when it's time to add details I either add a few edge loops, or I subdivide it once.

I know why his hand has more details, yes, I know how topology works, but I still struggle making a hand or a foot since I never make characters. I'm more of a hard surface guy. The thing I suck at this time is tris, my models are always 100% quads, and I guess I am shooting myself in the foot by doing this, especially for a model that is going to be for VR when everything will turn into tris anyway.

Today I will do another hand from scratch. Is it better to model a hand totally flat? I like to model a hand a bit bent, as well as the fingers. My friend who knows a lot about avatars because she's a rigger, she tells me all the VRCHAT avatars have flat hands when t-posing because it is easier to add bones and rig it.

zetheros

so, I don't have autism or ADHD. What helps me get things done is to take care of everything else so that my environment is conducive to hours of art. Make sure the pets are fed, plants are watered, dishes/laundry done and trash thrown out so nobody walks in your room to ask you to pick things up, or pets/kids don't come in asking for dinner.

Get a pot of tea or coffee, chocolate biscuits, put on some lofi and get to work.

Eric Chadwick

This thread is still golden: Motivation is Bull

stray

Reading this post is like looking in a mirror...

I'm not diagnosed with anything, but years of struggling with even "basic" aspects of life made me think that, yes, maybe I should've gone to a doctor. Alas, I can't afford it either (and even if I could, I still wouldn't be able to make myself go).

That said, I'm just a hobbyist, so my words probably don't carry much weight.

- don't underestimate brain biochemistry or whatever makes people have mood-swings and lose "motivation". Motivation IS bull, as in it shouldn't derail your projects. So you need to learn to recognize where these feelings come from and how to deal with them.

Sometimes you may have wildly different feelings on the same subject in a span of hours - it's important to remember how unreliable they are.

- basic physical exercise is deceptively important. I should know, because I don't do it and constantly have to pay the price ='D

- what somewhat helps me is keeping a notepad nearby and writing down ideas and steps to realize them. Then crossing them one by one, or re-writing as needed. These are crude, non-linear and sketchy and can be discarded at any moment.

Lists and drawings - just putting these things on paper is already a step forward. Plus, if I feel aimless, I can just open any page and do whatever is written there, step by step.

- another thing is (briefly) switching projects and mediums if completely stuck. Staring at the same thing for an hour doesn't magically resolve any problems. But for example sketching it on paper may get you un-stuck - maybe you'll see exactly how to proceed, or find a new approach.

Look for what works for you. See how other people do things. Try different workflows: even if you don't end up following them, maybe it'll help you see things differently. Practice on smaller projects.
Try to keep yourself in motion, but also don't forget to just stop and take a break. Know your limits before breaking through them. There's always a feeling that you have to be doing something, but there need to be a healthy balance in everything.
Also, having fun is important! It may not be constant and all-encompassing, but there have to be some fun at least.

Celosia

Another endorsement for the writing things down. I create lists of things that have to be done in the day, that would be nice if they get done but the world won't end if they don't, then cross one by one. I do the same with projects: It's just series of small tasks I work through.

My writing setup it far from fancy, a pen and loose sheets of paper ripped from old notebooks from my student days that didn't get fully used up. I leave the lists on my desk or pinned up. The thing about physical lists is that I can't minimize and ignore and forget about them, and the friction of loading some stupid app in first place to create and edit them isn't there either, it's just pen and paper, so I feel far more inclined to keep up with them. And not trying to keep them in my head helps to not only in not forgetting things but to keep the stress down, otherwise there's this pressure of endless lists of lists of things to do and the weight alone of all these undone stuff, never crossed out, can wear you down pretty fast.

They're also helpful in studying. Producing something stunning on the first try is a happy accident, not a reasonable expectation. Sometimes previous knowledge from different areas (eg anatomy from drawing) carry over getting you better unexpectedly better results that early tries have any right to be, and this previous knowledge helps in reducing the amount of things you got to study, but don't count on luck; Make a conscious effort to keep the amount of things you're studying manageable and expectations grounded. Break down a study into small morsels, a list of tasks or subjects, pick only a couple to really study and settle for "it works" for the others. Every bit you study and understand now becomes something you don't need to worry as much in the next project. This knowledge accumulates, so give yourself the room to get things wrong now knowing this is what allows you to get them right in the future.

fearian

I can't reccomend this extension enough, if you want to cut down on the distraction of youtube while still having access to it as a resource: https://unhook.app/

Here's the only two strategies that ever "worked" for me, however if I got overwhelmed, they stop being effective. You will need to get two timers. Preferably physical, tactile, ticking, kitchen timers. One of them should probably be small enough to put in your pocket. The first exercise is for starting work:
Set a timer for 5 or 10 minutes, and tell yourself, "When this timer rings, I will still be working" and start work. If the timer rings, and you are not working, start it again, with less time. If the timer rings, and you are still working, congratulate yourself and start it with double the time.

Here's where the second timer comes in: Depending on your flavour of working habits, you might find that you are so involved in something (distraction or work) that you kind of hear the timer ring, but you don't do anything about it, and it slips from your mind. Set the second timer to be 5 minutes longer than the first, and that's really to remind you to set the first timer. Describing this strategy to someone neurotypical invites an odd look but... IYKYK.

The other strategy as people have said is Write Shit Down. I have a stack of cheap, thin, B5 notebooks. I use one for work, one for a personal project, one for the house, etc. They sit on my desk, and when I'm working I take them out and make notes. It's important that these feel borderline disposable. It basically replaced writing on the back of envelopes or post-its. You just want to make sure there is no mental barrier to stop you writing something down like "This is the wrong notebook" doesn't matter. "I don't need a new page for this" doesn't matter. Write it down, because if you fall behind with a task something slips through the gaps, you might need to flip back to something a few weeks ago and jog your memory.

meltdawn

Hey everyone, I honestly never expected this post to get many comments on it, and it is nice to see that I wasn't ignored. Thanks again for taking your precious time for me. Yesterday night I went to watch a YouTube video to see how to model a hand, and here is my third attempt. It isn't done but it already looks so much better: https://imgur.com/gallery/hand-third-attempt-after-before-lMTntGf

You know, all of this motivation stuff is something I never truly grasped, I tell myself if people like John Carmack (huge ID Software fan) could work for 12 hours a day, barely sleeping, feeding himself with pepsi and pizza daily and knock it out of the park, there MUST be something that I am missing. It's kinda like I am expecting things to just fall under my feet and work not feeling like work, because if I am passionate about something, I should have fun all the time, right? 

Let me give an example: When I play video games and I record myself doing a speedrun, it often takes multiple attempts before I can beat my own record. When I did a speedrun of Mirror's Edge and beat it in 59 minutes and 22 seconds, it was hard and stressful, I had to be very precise to trigger the glitches for certain long jumps that required it. There were times I got mad when I'd fail for the dumbest reasons, yet I'd give it another go, and another... you get the idea. Supposedly autistic people like repetition, it might be why it never bothered me much to start again. That's exactly what I am trying to reach with Blender, and 3D art in general.

Since there's like 95% chance of having ADHD, I tell myself "It's not fair! People have medications to help with their productivity and I don't, they got therapists that supports them and I don't, I lived with a narcissistic mother who messed me up pretty bad and I got her voice constantly in my head telling me I am a failure, how am I supposed to succeed?"

I think what I am missing is that I am not the only guy on this earth who suffers, I bet some people would kill to have my body or my life, while I am here complaining. Sometimes when life is hell we just have to push through the suck, even when it feels we are all alone in our battles. Life will reward us for our hard work. I don't know if that mindset is healthy, though. Luckily for me when I feel down and I don't wanna do art, it usually takes a few hours, a day or two to want to try again, and now I got a hand that looks like a hand. 

I will go back to add more details now.  

Thanez

Holy shit, you're like me. Maybe my thoughts can help.
Inattentive ADHD and autism is a pretty common combination, and a destructive one at that.
The 'tism made me unwaveringly principled, with no other acceptable substitute to my moral code than a better one.
Divide by ADHD, and my ability to act in accordance became, let's say, flimsy. The resulting cognitive dissonance was *chef's kiss* perfection.
It's the perfect combination to make me fuck up, hyper-fixate on exactly that, and make me feel all kinds of bad about myself. 
Oh, what's that? ADHD comes bundled with depression? Can't patch it out? A core feature, you say? Oh. Oh no.
It escalated so slowly and over so many years that I didn't recognize that I'd lost control, completely becoming a passenger in my life.
All I could do was look at my failures and impotently claw at fixing things. It's not that I didn't try, I tried so fucking hard, but all of my effort and energy was spent trying to fix the wrong things. 
I truly hope you're not unknowingly fighting for your life as I was, completely unaware of the danger I was in, and that I had malaphorically brought a spoon to a gun fight.

In retrospect, it's easy to put into words with introspect, how and why things worsened to the degree that they did. Of course at the time I didn't know even half of it. I didn't truly understand how ADHD functioned, how destructive it was, so all of the effort to improve my situation were focused on the wrong things. As I got older, the weight of it all became too much, and I had to completely break down to realize that I needed help if I was going to survive.

[Intentional tonal shift]
I said all of that so you'd take me seriously when I say that therapy will not give you the ability to focus.
I'm lucky! In Socialist Norway, therapy is free, and so are the drugs. Or, well, free enough.
The first thing I learned in therapy, is about therapy, that its' one and only function is to help point you in the direction of the information that you need, so that you can eventually help yourself. That sounds so obvious, but I hadn't really considered what the process would look like.
Once they had pointed, therapy instantly became useless to me. I completely took over, and fixed what needed fixing.

Most of the things that bother us are linked to not achieving our goals, despite all the work we put in. Things like altering expectations, fundamental reasoning of why we think we want something, what success is defined as, etc. are the most impactful changes one can do.
Again, therapy can only tell you this, and inspire you to do the work. Then you go find the things that can better help you, like support groups, proper self-help guides, etc.
For me, one of the most useful tools were the insight gained from youtube channels by and for people that have different types of ADHD that would share their experiences, thoughts and epiphanies that helped them realize WHY their brain was wonky, and what they needed to do to get better.
In a sense, solving ADHD related mental health issues through therapy is like reprogramming your brain. Therapy is a "coding for dummies" book.
If I may equate this to something you are fundamentally good at, 3d modelling: You didn't need a "3d modelling for dummies" book, you needed a support forum like Polycount. The rest you did yourself.

Remember when I said therapy is free? If I had to pay for it, I'd be seriously let down. Imagine having paid to go to school so you could learn how to model something, and literally all they did was say "Yeah you're bad at topology. Go to Polycount and ask them how to get better.".
I'm not saying therapy is a scam, but I personally didn't need it after I had started the process. A lot of people need their help and guidance and support, but I am not that person, and based on your posts I don't think you are either.

Remember when I said drugs are free? They're $30/month. If they had cost me $1000 a month, they'd be well worth it. Without them, I still randomly fail by getting distracted, hyper-fixate on the wrong things, randomly pivot into doing something technically productive but not in accordance with my priority list, still get distracted, so eventually still end up depressed, anxious, stressed, overworked because I have to overcompensate, and feeling like I've failed myself due to the 'tism.
All of that shit is due to the frontal-lobe shenanigans which unmedicated ADHD directly causes, and that aspect can't be helped with any amount of therapy self-help.

If it seems like I'm projecting a whole lot here, please excuse me. I'm only trying to give my take on such a situation, with my personal experience, and English isn't my first language. 
Thanks for coming to the first part of my TED talk, my name is Faeniel.
For part two, I'll answer the second half of your question.