Help with workflow and example model - please help

Polygon_seal

Hello! I am new on this forum so please let my introduce myself really briefly.I am doing 3d graphic alongside with some small projects in UE4.I am doing this already for few years but it was always just for fun as my hobby so i can say that i am real begginer/amateur.In the past weeks i decided to start with 3d graphic little bit more serious and build skill which can help me in future maybe even find a job in this industry.Of course i know that ahead of me is long long way but i decided to start taking it more serious. I always liked creating enviroments and i would like to go this way.Right now i am trying to improve in props creation for video games and thats why i am here. I already read hundereds of articles and saw hundreds of tutorials but i thing that constructive feedback would be much more helpful for me. I just wanted to ask for your opinions about my workflow and if the way i am doing this is a good practise.

I will use my latest wrench model as an example and i will try to describe my whole workflow. I am using 3ds max, RizomUV, Substance painter.

1.I created High Poly model focusing on quad geormetry so i will avoid problems with turbosmooth and lighting artifacts during baking.(I am most comfortable with turbosmoothing in combination with smoothing groups and not crease or supporting lines to keep topology clean when i will be making low poly).

2.I made low poly from clone of my HP. deleting unnecessary edges, trying to preserve shape and siluethe as much as possible for later baking proces.In low poly i am already trying reduce geometry as much as possible therefore i am using lot of triangles.

3.Unwrapped model in RizomUV.

4.In Substance painter i baked details from HP to LP and textured the model

I ended up with 2272 polygons low poly model with one 4K texture set.HP model is 36422 polygons.

High poly images

Low poly images

Final renders

I would love to ask you few questions please.

1. Is it okay using turbosmooth with smoothing groups instead of support lines ?

2. Is it okay using triangles on my LP model ? (i am trying avoid n-gons completely on both LP and HP models) 

3. Is it okay to make model from smaller parts and attach them in the end of process(not boolean just simple attach) instead of making one whole complicated model ? (i am baking parts separately)

4. Is this workflow suitable for creating Low poly assets and level props for games and enviroment design ?

Please keep in mind that i am aware of the fact that this is really amateur work but i am lost in insane amount of ways and 3d graphic workflows for different projects and i would just like to hear if i can stick to this way of crerating assets and improving in this workflow or should i change it.

Thank you very very much for any response and please provide me as much critical feedback as possible i think i really need it to move from place where i am little bit stuck now. I am attaching Low poly, high poly and final renders.

P.S. Quality of renders is not good i am aware of that and it is also field where i should improve a lot.

ZacD

1. Is it okay using turbosmooth with smoothing groups instead of support lines ?
Anything goes with the high poly. As long as it bakes well can do anything you want with the HP model.

2. Is it okay using triangles on my LP model ? (i am trying avoid n-gons completely on both LP and HP models) 
Yes, it'll need to be all triangles before you bake the normals and textures anyway. If the model does need to be iterated on later, you do want to be able to work with edge loops to make modeling changes easier, but you can be liberal with tris where you need them since it'll end up that way anyway. Also no need to avoid n-gons on the HP, they can subdivide well and make simpler and cleaner models. 

3. Is it okay to make model from smaller parts and attach them in the end of process(not boolean just simple attach) instead of making one whole complicated model ? (i am baking parts separately)
Floating separate pieces of geo is fine and normal

4. Is this workflow suitable for creating Low poly assets and level props for games and enviroment design ?
It's alright, working from a high poly to create a low poly often creates uneven use of geometry, there's places on your low poly that could get away with less geo, and there's places that ideally need more.

Fabi_G

Hi! I'd note that some edges on the finished asset look quite sharp. I would make sure the highpolys' bevels are wide enough so they read nicely at the intended viewing distance (first person, third person, top down?) and show up in the normal map at the targeted resolution. Based on those aspects you sometimes might have to exaggerate bevels to get something that looks right in the end. Here is an entry in the wiki on the topic (you find more interesting info looking through the wiki).

teodar23

Adding to previous posts, make sure you have proper smoothing groups on LP so that you dont end up with big surfaces with strong normal variation (if that makes sense)

Also when you export to fbx or whatever make sure you check the triangulate box (which turns polys into triangles) because if you let later programs like substance or a game engine do the triangulation it might differ and you'll get surface artifacts like the one in the picture

Polygon_seal

Thank you very much for you replies, it is really helpful for me. I would just like to ask some additional questions.

Fabi_G said:

Hi! I'd note that some edges on the finished asset look quite sharp. I would make sure the highpolys' bevels are wide enough so they read nicely at the intended viewing distance (first person, third person, top down?) and show up in the normal map at the targeted resolution. Based on those aspects you sometimes might have to exaggerate bevels to get something that looks right in the end. Here is an entry in the wiki on the topic (you find more interesting info looking through the wiki).

thanks for the wiki site. If i understand this correctly does this mean that i should bevel my edges even if real life object or reference is completely sharp ? 

teodar23 said:

Adding to previous posts, make sure you have proper smoothing groups on LP so that you dont end up with big surfaces with strong normal variation (if that makes sense)

Also when you export to fbx or whatever make sure you check the triangulate box (which turns polys into triangles) because if you let later programs like substance or a game engine do the triangulation it might differ and you'll get surface artifacts like the one in the picture

I will definitely do this with triangulation next time i am just assuring if i understood right the thing with smoothing groups on bigger surfaces. Should i use only one smoothing group for bigger surface unless there are no comples edges or something like that right ? This make sense for me.

Fabi_G

thanks for the wiki site. If i understand this correctly does this mean that i should bevel my edges even if real life object or reference is completely sharp ? 

With personal projects, that's up to you of course. A bevel/rounded edge will catch the light and give the impression of more geometry/detail. When making a portfolio asset, you could adapt the art-style of an existing game, so it fits in seamlessly.

teodar23

https://www.artstation.com/blogs/ericcorreia/RL1rm/breaking-down-not-mentally-hardsurface-production-workflows

Polygon_seal

Thank you very much all of you ... your responses and advices are really helpful and useful for me.I will definitely try to take as much possible from it.

Fabi_G said:

Hi! I'd note that some edges on the finished asset look quite sharp. I would make sure the highpolys' bevels are wide enough so they read nicely at the intended viewing distance (first person, third person, top down?) and show up in the normal map at the targeted resolution. Based on those aspects you sometimes might have to exaggerate bevels to get something that looks right in the end. Here is an entry in the wiki on the topic (you find more interesting info looking through the wiki).

so if i understand this correctly i should bevel edges on my HP at least little bit even if they are completely sharp in real life or on reference ? 

teodar23 said:

Adding to previous posts, make sure you have proper smoothing groups on LP so that you dont end up with big surfaces with strong normal variation (if that makes sense)

Also when you export to fbx or whatever make sure you check the triangulate box (which turns polys into triangles) because if you let later programs like substance or a game engine do the triangulation it might differ and you'll get surface artifacts like the one in the picture

Yes i understand that triangulation... i will definitely try it next time but about that smoothing groups ...does it mean that i should use only one smoothing group for bigger surfaces right ? that makes sense for my ....of course if there is not complexity which needs to be smooth grouped. Do i understand it right ? 

grumix8

hello welcome, this awesome.

teodar23

What i meant by smoothing groups is to have large polygons as flat as possible on the LP.
For ex. If you have a large poly next to a small one and they are not coplanar (on the same plane) by default you will have an average smoothing or normals on those polys. That will create a large gradient in the normalmap and when compressed or just in 8bit will produce artifacts (looks bad). If you add a loop on the bigger poly or use face weighted normals, the big poly should be flat and the smaller poly should take all the change in normal direction and should produce better normalmap when baked. Really hard to explain in words just test it for yourself in both ways and youll see the difference...