so is the unibrow in or not? it's been bothering me for some time.
I want a frida kahlo character mod for star wars outlaws! If they want a strong independent woman, you can't get better than Frida and her brush!
https://artuk.org/discover/stories/frida-kahlo-embracing-her-masculinity " Simultaneously feminist, communist, queer, disabled, gender fluid, revolutionary, unapologetically herself and most importantly proudly Mexicana, it is no surprise that Frida remains a contemporary icon to so many marginalised groups that never receive the adequate mainstream representation they deserve."
I'm surprised DEI advocates don't promote Frida or her art in their efforts, that would be more meaningful than crusading against white people on twitter, and you would actually learn something in the process.
You're trying to couch this whole thing as a "discussion" but you're not interested. You're just using it to push your gamegater bullshit. You've decided to approach this character, and other examples, entirely from the chuds' angle; you assume from the start they were made the way they are for DEI, for faux diversity, for left wing influencing, and then work backwards from there to invent complaints. You dislike them because they're not white enough or male enough and then invent justifications after the fact to pretend you're actually just concerned about technical faults.
Your views are very obvious; you barely have to read between the lines to understand. Take, for example, your assumption that Kay Vess is the way she is because of DEI.
In my opinion it isn't wrong to suggest that DEI has influenced their
choice of protagonist, but it does provide credence to the changes they
made to the actor's appearance if that's how someone wants to look at
it.
I think its a number of factors and their decision isn't
limited to DEI but they haven't made any statement in this regard to
promote the character save from the usual trope of "I've been held back
my whole life, I just need a chance to finally be free" back story of
Kay Vess that is similar to other star wars protagonists.
..........
I was just pointing out why so many think that it is a component. If
I am to give a reason, it would be because it is the current trend, and
many studios are promoting female protagonists as leads and want to tap
into that market. They do go out of their way to promote "women in stem" "Girls in coding" etc so why should it not reflect in their games? I don't know if it actually makes any real significant difference.
Why is it fine to assume she's that way because of DEI? Let's follow the logic back....
She's a woman > men are the default gender.
She's not white > white is the default ethnicity.
>Her face has been altered in a way people perceive as masculinising > women's faces are supposed to look completely feminine.
That's the logic. That's your underlying point. If you don't hold views like that, there's no reason to complain that her form is the result of "diversity". No reason to think that she's being forced to be this way, rather than just having been designed this way because that's the character they imagined.
It's conspiracy theorist logic to start suggesting that she's a woman as part of some scheme to promote women over men.
Many in the audience have connected it to the SBI fiasco and are convinced that its a conspiracy threatening boycotts.
A line you've been pushing while pretending to simply have concerns and want discussion....
Also, yeah, it is pretty fucking racist to see a black woman and start comparing her face - specifically her features that come from her ethnicity - to an animal.
Also, you'd have to be fucking delusional to say THIS with a straight face.
Wish there was more awareness of this content though, I do feel society
was more tolerant and whimsical in those days and its concerning to see
all the outrage and intolerance, I think its more an online vocal
minority than a organised movement but the crusading, advocacy, cancel
culture and ultra left leaning discourse is more apparent atleast in the
west.
Society was more tolerant??!! Are you insane?! Society was racist as fuck, homophobic as fuck, sexist as fuck, transphobic as fuck......Section 28 wasn't even ten years old when that was airing! People like me would've been put in a goddamn madhouse! And God help anyone with Autism or any mental disability, and the physical ones weren't much better. You're being hysterical if you think 'Allo 'Allo couldn't or wouldn't be made today. Half the British comedies on TV are in the same vein.
You're just drinking the Kool-Aid. You're getting all your "information" from right wingers with a vested interest in pretending that society has been captured by some ulta-left wing conspiracy that has no tolerance for any difference of opinion or off-colour humour and is conspiring to dominate men. It's ridiculous. It's delusional. Every source you've posted so far is from a gamergate meme, a whiny little pissboy gamer complaining that the women are being made ugly or games are being made diverse, or some such nonsense. I can't believe you posted something from The Critical Drinker with a straight face. What's next, you gonna pull out some Sargon?
Just finish taking off your mask and start posting the overt bigotry already. It would be more honest than just concern trolling about some left wing conspiracy to push white people out and pretending the "DEI advocate" blob spends all their time "crusading against white people on Twitter" and inventing complaints to pretend you think these characters' designs or backgrounds are flawed when it's obvious you just dislike them for not conforming to traditional ideas more.
Maybe ten years ago, when the first gamergate was a thing, people were stupid enough to be fooled by "concerns", but I'd like to think they're wiser now.
idk I'm a millennial so if discourse isn't in youtube shorts format or longer than a paragraph I don't really read it
same here. I dont even watch videos anymore. I immediately copy paste the transcript into ChatGPT and tell it to format for legibility then just skim it. if there is not a clear, consistent point i abandon it.
i agree with rima the original stated intent of this post seems to be abandoned by the OP. Feels like nikhil has been burrowing in the bowels of the internet and wanted to dump what he found here to see reactions or something. its weird.
Just for the sake of repetition: grown ass adults who care about what make believe characters in childrens shows look like must be enormous losers. it is pitiful to even think about.
culture wars are a tool used to keep you from knowing about the actual transgressions against you in the class war. instead of focusing on why X corporation has poisoned the environment around you or any number of actual issues that have an effect on your families life, you are such a fucking dumbass you spend time arguing about the color of little mermaid with strangers you'll never meet. You only going to be alive once, is that what you're going to do?
it's the microplastics reducing our attention span and sperm count. Our pituary glands are being calcified due to fluorite in our tap water, obscuring our inner eye, ocean acidification and asphalt water runoff is giving us man boobs and fat rolls - that or we are slowly aging and dying, losing our hair and minds, soon to fade into the black, terrible void of obscurity
idk I'm a millennial so if discourse isn't in youtube shorts format or longer than a paragraph I don't really read it
same here. I dont even watch videos anymore. I immediately copy paste the transcript into ChatGPT and tell it to format for legibility then just skim it. if there is not a clear, consistent point i abandon it.
i agree with rima the original stated intent of this post seems to be abandoned by the OP. Feels like nikhil has been burrowing in the bowels of the internet and wanted to dump what he found here to see reactions or something. its weird.
Just for the sake of repetition: grown ass adults who care about what make believe characters in childrens shows look like must be enormous losers. it is pitiful to even think about.
culture wars are a tool used to keep you from knowing about the actual transgressions against you in the class war. instead of focusing on why X corporation has poisoned the environment around you or any number of actual issues that have an effect on your families life, you are such a fucking dumbass you spend time arguing about the color of little mermaid with strangers you'll never meet. You only going to be alive once, is that what you're going to do?
Apologies if it diverged. I was just interested in Ubisofts approach to design decisions and how we could translate that into portfolio work so that its more appealing to studios.
Like with my Ro Laren, I think she matches her photo reference but she has a unique face and at one point I wanted to modify it to more conventional attractiveness and call it an interpretation, so the fact that Ubi did this with Kay got me revisiting this.
And lol, disney movies are a big part of my childhood and the 90's, I do hope to work on a disney property in the future.
X has gone crazy since Elon fired employees he considered left wing and all the restrictions fell, and its a fascinating look at human collectivism and psychology. Its incredible to see so many controversial perspectives on one platform and what people can say and get away with.
I don't think what you want to do with Ro Laren is at all comparable, honestly.
One on hand, you have an actual, finished character with an established appearance.
On the other hand, they didn't have any finished character, and apparently decided to use that person as a base upon which to establish their character's appearance.
It's a completely different situation. If you want to make realistic fan art of a character, especially an actual actor, you should probably just try to be as faithful to their appearance as possible. I don't think you can use what Ubisoft has done to say that it should be fine if you change her face to something you think is more attractive, because changing a character's actual face is completely different to using someone's face as a base to make the character's face in the first place.
It would probably also be better for the sake of showing off skill, no? If you can make a high quality replica of someone's appearance, I think it would show you have a very good understanding of facial anatomy and structure; you'd need to, to make an accurate copy. Like anatomy in general, really. Even if you say it's an interpretation, you probably run the risk of being mistaken for just not having the skill to capture their likeness, or being like unskilled artists who say "it's just my style" to excuse errors. I'm not saying you are that, but the first look your work will get is, of course, going to be superficially judging from how it looks.
Also, I'll say this. I couldn't recognise Ro Laren that image at all. Your 2024 image. It also doesn't help that it was blasted out by the lighting; the angle didn't give any contrast to help read the forms, and was generally unflattering.
You're trying to couch this whole thing as a "discussion" but you're not interested. You're just using it to push your gamegater bullshit. You've decided to approach this character, and other examples, entirely from the chuds' angle; you assume from the start they were made the way they are for DEI, for faux diversity, for left wing influencing, and then work backwards from there to invent complaints. You dislike them because they're not white enough or male enough and then invent justifications after the fact to pretend you're actually just concerned about technical faults.
Your views are very obvious; you barely have to read between the lines to understand. Take, for example, your assumption that Kay Vess is the way she is because of DEI.
In my opinion it isn't wrong to suggest that DEI has influenced their
choice of protagonist, but it does provide credence to the changes they
made to the actor's appearance if that's how someone wants to look at
it.
I think its a number of factors and their decision isn't
limited to DEI but they haven't made any statement in this regard to
promote the character save from the usual trope of "I've been held back
my whole life, I just need a chance to finally be free" back story of
Kay Vess that is similar to other star wars protagonists.
..........
I was just pointing out why so many think that it is a component. If
I am to give a reason, it would be because it is the current trend, and
many studios are promoting female protagonists as leads and want to tap
into that market. They do go out of their way to promote "women in stem" "Girls in coding" etc so why should it not reflect in their games? I don't know if it actually makes any real significant difference.
Why is it fine to assume she's that way because of DEI? Let's follow the logic back....
She's a woman > men are the default gender.
She's not white > white is the default ethnicity.
>Her face has been altered in a way people perceive as masculinising > women's faces are supposed to look completely feminine.
That's the logic. That's your underlying point. If you don't hold views like that, there's no reason to complain that her form is the result of "diversity". No reason to think that she's being forced to be this way, rather than just having been designed this way because that's the character they imagined.
It's conspiracy theorist logic to start suggesting that she's a woman as part of some scheme to promote women over men.
Many in the audience have connected it to the SBI fiasco and are convinced that its a conspiracy threatening boycotts.
A line you've been pushing while pretending to simply have concerns and want discussion....
Also, yeah, it is pretty fucking racist to see a black woman and start comparing her face - specifically her features that come from her ethnicity - to an animal.
Also, you'd have to be fucking delusional to say THIS with a straight face.
Wish there was more awareness of this content though, I do feel society
was more tolerant and whimsical in those days and its concerning to see
all the outrage and intolerance, I think its more an online vocal
minority than a organised movement but the crusading, advocacy, cancel
culture and ultra left leaning discourse is more apparent atleast in the
west.
Society was more tolerant??!! Are you insane?! Society was racist as fuck, homophobic as fuck, sexist as fuck, transphobic as fuck......Section 28 wasn't even ten years old when that was airing! People like me would've been put in a goddamn madhouse! And God help anyone with Autism or any mental disability, and the physical ones weren't much better. You're being hysterical if you think 'Allo 'Allo couldn't or wouldn't be made today. Half the British comedies on TV are in the same vein.
You're just drinking the Kool-Aid. You're getting all your "information" from right wingers with a vested interest in pretending that society has been captured by some ulta-left wing conspiracy that has no tolerance for any difference of opinion or off-colour humour and is conspiring to dominate men. It's ridiculous. It's delusional. Every source you've posted so far is from a gamergate meme, a whiny little pissboy gamer complaining that the women are being made ugly or games are being made diverse, or some such nonsense. I can't believe you posted something from The Critical Drinker with a straight face. What's next, you gonna pull out some Sargon?
Just finish taking off your mask and start posting the overt bigotry already. It would be more honest than just concern trolling about some left wing conspiracy to push white people out and pretending the "DEI advocate" blob spends all their time "crusading against white people on Twitter" and inventing complaints to pretend you think these characters' designs or backgrounds are flawed when it's obvious you just dislike them for not conforming to traditional ideas more.
Maybe ten years ago, when the first gamergate was a thing, people were stupid enough to be fooled by "concerns", but I'd like to think they're wiser now.
Honestly I had hoped that SBI would have put out a PR response and this would not have escalated to the dumpster fire its become. I really tried to reach out to them and help but they really want to fight what they feel is a right wing neo nazi conspiracy to the bitter end.
Its interesting to watch it play out.
We now do have a developer video from ubisoft that I posted above, so its clear that Kay is based on Han Solo and is meant to be a scoundrel. The rest of her attire, choice of hair is a homage to the 80's
They haven't gone into why they modified the actors face, it wouldn't matter to me if Kay was white or a guy, I would have preferred Han Solo since he's an established character that I don't feel has been done justice in the star wars universe.
The actor is already diverse enough if DEI is indeed a concern.
"
Why is it fine to assume she's that way because of DEI? Let's follow the logic back....
She's a woman > men are the default gender.
She's not white > white is the default ethnicity.
>Her face has been altered in a way people perceive as masculinising > women's faces are supposed to look completely feminine.
"
I do feel that we've seen many games and media diverge from this. Its more about how well they do it so that it is well received.
With Kay, the general discourse is that many in the audience believe that sticking with the actors face was the better choice. Its ballooned into a DEI conspiracy due to the whole SBI fiasco and I do hope it comes back to reasonable discourse.
Also by a tolerant society, I meant in their reception to media and yes I agree representation was lacking and there was more allusion to tropes in comedies. I didn't see as much cancel culture which is a product of our times where any nobody can be promoted through social media. Many news articles reference tweets from general public as fact and investigative journalism devolves to entertainment media.
About seeing Hailey Bailey as having aquatic facial features, i'm not denying they come from ethnicity, that's a fact. The conversation where I made that observation was all about comparing her face to the cartoon. Since disney had made the decision to not consider a likeness, it isn't wrong to suggest that Hailey Bailey resembles the female fish from shark tale.
Its just that there would be more tolerance in such an observation, people wouldn't immediate assume that its speciesist or a right wing conspiracy to prevent black people from assisting Mexicans in reclaiming Atlantis from settler colonialism. The little mermaid cartoon was made in a different time, and in the present day there is a concentrated push towards more representation.
I think the issue is more about how North American generally is with its focus on the individualism which is very different from the more collectivised society in south asia I was born into. Many south asians prefer western entertainment and representation never really mattered since the collectivism meant that we didn't feel alienated or isolated.
But when you live in North America, its possible to feel really alienated and this is made worse by systemic aspects that can make many demographics feel more marginalised. I do believe that a lot of this can be solved by urban planning and having walkable integrated communities that can identify with some collectivised sense of identity.
For example in Montreal I don't feel these issues as much as in Toronto where you are expected to conform to your race and community. As a south asian a lot of what I was supposed to be came from an assumption that bollywood was based in fact. So my varied interests were startling to many people who stereotyped me considerably.
I feel that Montreal is more well balanced between european than north american influences so the awareness of realities is higher, but people are also more satisfied in themselves and can be more accomodating and tolerant of others.
I mostly see it as a PR misstep, that helped galvanise a 4500 steam curator group into a 400,000 strong anti DEI army supported by Elon Musk, and as a case study it is important to reflect and address how social media conduct can escalate situations that are actually rather simple to resolve if done in a timely fashion.
I did find the critical gamer/drinkers perspective to be reasonable, all the same I am aware of the controversy around him and he can be very blunt in his approach. That said he really didn't have to call Abby from LOU2 "gigantor" and is definitely an entertainer/grifter/rabble rouser.
This is one other analysis of Star Wars Outlaw's I liked, where the reviewer basically dismisses the controversy around Kay's design and speaks about the other issues around the games marketing and choices available to gamers. https://youtu.be/OM--n07Bh6Q?si=1kMrFk1c8xN-JUYE
Like with most youtubers much of this persons content has become more focused on SEO and pandering as you can see from the title
How the fuck did the Holocaust creep into this conversation? Why.
That was with regards to the show Allo Allo and its remake and syndication for a modern audience. It was rumored that the german aspects of the show would polarise viewers. I feel it would still be well received but the actors are legends so its big shoes to fill. They do have stage remakes true to the original.
Even if she's based on the kind of character Han Solo is, that doesn't really mean anything. The Star Wars universe is full of scoundrels; it's basically one of the main Star Wars character archetypes. Look at, like, everyone in Rogue One, or basically any of the Star Wars games in which you're not playing as a Jedi, etc. Most characters in that setting aren't force users, so being the kind of character that runs around with a gun is fairly obvious. You seem to be turning your preference for Han Solo into the idea that she should be Han Solo. That there's a fault with her for being herself. Being an established character doesn't mean anything. Should every game with a Jedi be Luke Skywalker? If anything, an overreliance on established characters has been a huge problem for Star Wars, not a boon.
Since disney had made the decision to not consider a likeness, it isn't
wrong to suggest that Hailey Bailey resembles the female fish from shark
tale.
That logic doesn't follow at all. Those are completely different situations.
I don't even know what this Atlantis thing you're going on about it. Did you listen to some kind of conspiracy theorist nutjob and then decide to project that onto everyone who has justified problems with the lack of diversity in media?
As for your link.....It's funny how you picked that comment. Meanwhile, the top comment.... You picked the one that suited what you wanted to hear. The truth of the whole thing is, it's a witch hunt. The first gamergate was a right wing conspiracy to mobilise angry white guys to get Trump elected. Do you think it's coincidental that the second one is happening when Trump is running for office again? You even said it's supported by Elon Musk, who everyone knows is a bigot. You think it's all organic and there's no astroturfing, no bots, no manipulation going on whatsoever?
You say SBI is claiming there's a right wing, neonazi conspiracy...Well, that's exactly what it is. It's just another wave of shitstirring bigots trying to mobilise and radicalise angry right wingers in order to push back against progress.
Finding the opinions of someone like The Critical Drinker to be reasonable shows where you're coming from, and that's not a good place. Honestly, you're up to your neck in right wing manbaby gamer bigotry.
Also, do I really need to point out how quickly your comments about 'Allo 'Allo fall apart in the face of, you know, everything about British pantomimes? Or the popularity of drag?
Maybe you should just stop listening to right wing bastards telling you how they swear people are totally reacting and just listen to the people. You'll immediately discover that most people are just busy being normal people and aren't overreacting to every little thing or running around looking for an excuse to be offended, and they sure as shit don't care that Kay Vess' face is marginally different from her model's true appearance.
I don't think what you want to do with Ro Laren is at all comparable, honestly.
One on hand, you have an actual, finished character with an established appearance.
On the other hand, they didn't have any finished character, and apparently decided to use that person as a base upon which to establish their character's appearance.
It's a completely different situation. If you want to make realistic fan art of a character, especially an actual actor, you should probably just try to be as faithful to their appearance as possible. I don't think you can use what Ubisoft has done to say that it should be fine if you change her face to something you think is more attractive, because changing a character's actual face is completely different to using someone's face as a base to make the character's face in the first place.
It would probably also be better for the sake of showing off skill, no? If you can make a high quality replica of someone's appearance, I think it would show you have a very good understanding of facial anatomy and structure; you'd need to, to make an accurate copy. Like anatomy in general, really. Even if you say it's an interpretation, you probably run the risk of being mistaken for just not having the skill to capture their likeness, or being like unskilled artists who say "it's just my style" to excuse errors. I'm not saying you are that, but the first look your work will get is, of course, going to be superficially judging from how it looks.
Also, I'll say this. I couldn't recognise Ro Laren that image at all. Your 2024 image. It also doesn't help that it was blasted out by the lighting; the angle didn't give any contrast to help read the forms, and was generally unflattering.
Ubisoft did have a scan to work from, it is far more challenging to work from scratch and I do understand your perspective.
It is a fine balance between deciding to go with what available and having the skill to modify it to what you want it to be. Or regardless of skill or vision, releasing a version that polarises viewers even if you did considerable market research to gauge appeal.
Looking at Kay, I could say that Ubisoft artists aren't as competant in scan modification, though its not really clear what they were going for since they haven't elaborated on look dev and character design. I still feel that the actual actors face would have passed and didn't need to be modified, and were I at the studio and had authority to influence the design process, I would 100% have insisted on this.
I've no idea what kind of resistence I would have faced in this matter, I have seen this process from the outside and it can get pretty complex. Like in general having a bunch of creatives provide input and agree on something is a challening process and in AAA I find that budget and milestones ultimately decides on what passes for final results. And this is besides executive oversight. Ubisoft has been consulting with lucas arts as well, so there is considerable back and forth between studios when it comes to creative decisions.
With Ro Laren, I was thinking of modifying it in the same way they did with the scan of the Kay actor and present the model as my style. It wouldn't be done to excuse errors, since there will likely still be errors, but I'm hoping that art reviewers look at the complete character process to assess where I can improve on the job.
I had Khan and Zhou Yu reviewed by a senior artist from Amazon Games and they have agreed that I have a good understanding of facial anatomy and structure. But they also said that an actual interview is a 7 hour process where they go much deeper into details.
So far only EA requires an art test assessment which reduces the interview time to 1 hour which I feel is very sensible, I'm not sure if this is extended to all hiring levels.
Thanks for your feedback on Ro Laren, lighting is definitely an area I need to focus, it is challenging to get right and provide more contrast for an appealing eye catching presentation. The senior has offered to guide me in lighting so there should be improvements there soon.
More typing, less art. Oops, wait a minute, that’s not it.
NikhilR, I’m thinking you should pursue some career with a lot of typing because it seems you’re really passionate about it, and maybe not so much about the art-making part of it? Maybe game journalism, or art criticism.
More typing, less art. Oops, wait a minute, that’s not it.
NikhilR, I’m thinking you should pursue some career with a lot of typing because it seems you’re really passionate about it, and maybe not so much about the art-making part of it? Maybe game journalism, or art criticism.
Lol, I do enjoy writing. And its great to read different perspectives and analyse design decisions.
I have been doing more art, though I've had some time recently since 2 of the main characters I was working on are complete and positively reviewed. I was mainly doing the female character to diversify my work, so what Ubisoft did with Kay factored into this process and made me question my approach.
I may move a lot of my writing into a blog. I've been more active on posts on linkedin and that has definitely improved engagement and visibility for hiring purposes. Wih so many out of work its a good time to connect and engage with others in a similar predicament.
There was a point where I considered joining a gaming publication like Kotaku and would need to build a good writing portfolio for the purpose. Even streaming would be a good approach though I need to get comfortable with my voice and how to engage viewers.
Whether the original face needed modifying or not...You can't really say that without knowing what they had in mind. Evidently, they didn't think a perfect replica would quite fit what they had in mind. I don't think that's a fault. Most or all AAA games now seem to use scans as base material, and real people as motion capture sources. So if you have a particular look in mind, it seems to make sense to get someone close as you can and then just modify accordingly. It's done in live action all the time with makeup and prosthetics, so why should games be different when they're aiming for a similar level of realism?
All that aside...."A design that polarises viewers"? Five years ago, nobody would've cared. Nobody would've said there's anything wrong with her appearance. This is just another point in the stupid right wing culture war shit that's really come on the last few years with their moral panics because people dare to make women that aren't just sex dolls for male gaze, or put in LGBT characters that aren't deniable, easily censored, or background characters you can just ignore. It's not that there's anything wrong with her design; they're just fighting like hell to drag our standards backwards.
Have you ever considered that perhaps the devs simply wanted to make the character this way just because they can? No one ever said they had to make a fictional made-up character an exact or even close likeness to whatever sources they used. Just a thought.
Closing this thread. It's doing more harm than good at this point. Lots of links and allusions to toxic and racist and phobic sentiments. This is a discussion forum, sure, but let's think a bit next time, before posting clearly inflammatory things?
Replies
If they want a strong independent woman, you can't get better than Frida and her brush!
https://artuk.org/discover/stories/frida-kahlo-embracing-her-masculinity
" Simultaneously feminist, communist, queer, disabled, gender fluid, revolutionary, unapologetically herself and most importantly proudly Mexicana, it is no surprise that Frida remains a contemporary icon to so many marginalised groups that never receive the adequate mainstream representation they deserve."
I'm surprised DEI advocates don't promote Frida or her art in their efforts, that would be more meaningful than crusading against white people on twitter, and you would actually learn something in the process.
She makes a good Leia too
How the fuck did the Holocaust creep into this conversation?
Why.
I think its a number of factors and their decision isn't limited to DEI but they haven't made any statement in this regard to promote the character save from the usual trope of "I've been held back my whole life, I just need a chance to finally be free" back story of Kay Vess that is similar to other star wars protagonists.
If I am to give a reason, it would be because it is the current trend, and many studios are promoting female protagonists as leads and want to tap into that market.
They do go out of their way to promote "women in stem" "Girls in coding" etc so why should it not reflect in their games?
I don't know if it actually makes any real significant difference.
i agree with rima the original stated intent of this post seems to be abandoned by the OP. Feels like nikhil has been burrowing in the bowels of the internet and wanted to dump what he found here to see reactions or something. its weird.
Just for the sake of repetition: grown ass adults who care about what make believe characters in childrens shows look like must be enormous losers. it is pitiful to even think about.
culture wars are a tool used to keep you from knowing about the actual transgressions against you in the class war. instead of focusing on why X corporation has poisoned the environment around you or any number of actual issues that have an effect on your families life, you are such a fucking dumbass you spend time arguing about the color of little mermaid with strangers you'll never meet. You only going to be alive once, is that what you're going to do?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Bound_(episode)
That episode has an interesting twist at the end, recommend watching.
I was just interested in Ubisofts approach to design decisions and how we could translate that into portfolio work so that its more appealing to studios.
Like with my Ro Laren, I think she matches her photo reference but she has a unique face and at one point I wanted to modify it to more conventional attractiveness and call it an interpretation, so the fact that Ubi did this with Kay got me revisiting this.
And lol, disney movies are a big part of my childhood and the 90's, I do hope to work on a disney property in the future.
X has gone crazy since Elon fired employees he considered left wing and all the restrictions fell, and its a fascinating look at human collectivism and psychology.
Its incredible to see so many controversial perspectives on one platform and what people can say and get away with.
I really tried to reach out to them and help but they really want to fight what they feel is a right wing neo nazi conspiracy to the bitter end.
Its interesting to watch it play out.
We now do have a developer video from ubisoft that I posted above, so its clear that Kay is based on Han Solo and is meant to be a scoundrel.
The rest of her attire, choice of hair is a homage to the 80's
They haven't gone into why they modified the actors face, it wouldn't matter to me if Kay was white or a guy, I would have preferred Han Solo since he's an established character that I don't feel has been done justice in the star wars universe.
The actor is already diverse enough if DEI is indeed a concern.
"
I do feel that we've seen many games and media diverge from this.
Its more about how well they do it so that it is well received.
With Kay, the general discourse is that many in the audience believe that sticking with the actors face was the better choice.
Its ballooned into a DEI conspiracy due to the whole SBI fiasco and I do hope it comes back to reasonable discourse.
Also by a tolerant society, I meant in their reception to media and yes I agree representation was lacking and there was more allusion to tropes in comedies.
I didn't see as much cancel culture which is a product of our times where any nobody can be promoted through social media.
Many news articles reference tweets from general public as fact and investigative journalism devolves to entertainment media.
About seeing Hailey Bailey as having aquatic facial features, i'm not denying they come from ethnicity, that's a fact.
The conversation where I made that observation was all about comparing her face to the cartoon.
Since disney had made the decision to not consider a likeness, it isn't wrong to suggest that Hailey Bailey resembles the female fish from shark tale.
Its just that there would be more tolerance in such an observation, people wouldn't immediate assume that its speciesist or a right wing conspiracy to prevent black people from assisting Mexicans in reclaiming Atlantis from settler colonialism.
The little mermaid cartoon was made in a different time, and in the present day there is a concentrated push towards more representation.
I think the issue is more about how North American generally is with its focus on the individualism which is very different from the more collectivised society in south asia I was born into.
Many south asians prefer western entertainment and representation never really mattered since the collectivism meant that we didn't feel alienated or isolated.
But when you live in North America, its possible to feel really alienated and this is made worse by systemic aspects that can make many demographics feel more marginalised.
I do believe that a lot of this can be solved by urban planning and having walkable integrated communities that can identify with some collectivised sense of identity.
For example in Montreal I don't feel these issues as much as in Toronto where you are expected to conform to your race and community.
As a south asian a lot of what I was supposed to be came from an assumption that bollywood was based in fact.
So my varied interests were startling to many people who stereotyped me considerably.
I feel that Montreal is more well balanced between european than north american influences so the awareness of realities is higher, but people are also more satisfied in themselves and can be more accomodating and tolerant of others.
Also coming back to the SBI situation, the assertion that it was gamergate 2.0 wasn't suggested by members from the SBI detected steam curator, it happened when jounalists joined in and worsened the whole situation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1bdcyos/comment/kumigqc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I mostly see it as a PR misstep, that helped galvanise a 4500 steam curator group into a 400,000 strong anti DEI army supported by Elon Musk, and as a case study it is important to reflect and address how social media conduct can escalate situations that are actually rather simple to resolve if done in a timely fashion.
I did find the critical gamer/drinkers perspective to be reasonable, all the same I am aware of the controversy around him and he can be very blunt in his approach.
That said he really didn't have to call Abby from LOU2 "gigantor" and is definitely an entertainer/grifter/rabble rouser.
This is one other analysis of Star Wars Outlaw's I liked, where the reviewer basically dismisses the controversy around Kay's design and speaks about the other issues around the games marketing and choices available to gamers.
Like with most youtubers much of this persons content has become more focused on SEO and pandering as you can see from the title
It was rumored that the german aspects of the show would polarise viewers.
I feel it would still be well received but the actors are legends so its big shoes to fill.
They do have stage remakes true to the original.
It is a fine balance between deciding to go with what available and having the skill to modify it to what you want it to be.
Or regardless of skill or vision, releasing a version that polarises viewers even if you did considerable market research to gauge appeal.
Looking at Kay, I could say that Ubisoft artists aren't as competant in scan modification, though its not really clear what they were going for since they haven't elaborated on look dev and character design.
I still feel that the actual actors face would have passed and didn't need to be modified, and were I at the studio and had authority to influence the design process, I would 100% have insisted on this.
I've no idea what kind of resistence I would have faced in this matter, I have seen this process from the outside and it can get pretty complex.
Like in general having a bunch of creatives provide input and agree on something is a challening process and in AAA I find that budget and milestones ultimately decides on what passes for final results.
And this is besides executive oversight.
Ubisoft has been consulting with lucas arts as well, so there is considerable back and forth between studios when it comes to creative decisions.
With Ro Laren, I was thinking of modifying it in the same way they did with the scan of the Kay actor and present the model as my style.
It wouldn't be done to excuse errors, since there will likely still be errors, but I'm hoping that art reviewers look at the complete character process to assess where I can improve on the job.
I had Khan and Zhou Yu reviewed by a senior artist from Amazon Games and they have agreed that I have a good understanding of facial anatomy and structure. But they also said that an actual interview is a 7 hour process where they go much deeper into details.
So far only EA requires an art test assessment which reduces the interview time to 1 hour which I feel is very sensible, I'm not sure if this is extended to all hiring levels.
Thanks for your feedback on Ro Laren, lighting is definitely an area I need to focus, it is challenging to get right and provide more contrast for an appealing eye catching presentation.
The senior has offered to guide me in lighting so there should be improvements there soon.
NikhilR, I’m thinking you should pursue some career with a lot of typing because it seems you’re really passionate about it, and maybe not so much about the art-making part of it? Maybe game journalism, or art criticism.
I have been doing more art, though I've had some time recently since 2 of the main characters I was working on are complete and positively reviewed.
I was mainly doing the female character to diversify my work, so what Ubisoft did with Kay factored into this process and made me question my approach.
I may move a lot of my writing into a blog.
I've been more active on posts on linkedin and that has definitely improved engagement and visibility for hiring purposes.
Wih so many out of work its a good time to connect and engage with others in a similar predicament.
There was a point where I considered joining a gaming publication like Kotaku and would need to build a good writing portfolio for the purpose.
Even streaming would be a good approach though I need to get comfortable with my voice and how to engage viewers.