It is similar to scultping or painting. First get in the biggest shapes. Focus on the composition. And, if it were a game, the gameplay.
Then you can refine that a bit by replacing the chunky block out models with higher resolution ones. But maybe not the final high detail models yet.
Then you can do a similar thing for your colors and lighting. Just block it in roughly.
Now you'll have a rough draft of your entire scene. Each element of it - the models, the textures, the lighting - is somewhere between 50%-70% finished. At this stage you can still make any big changes before putting in the long hours to finalize everything. Because the models and materials are simplified, it won't be too difficult to make big changes. This is the funnest part that is all creativity and pretty much don't have to think about anything technical, so dive in and have fun.
Once you are okay with the big things, then you can go through piece by piece and detail. You can do that in whatever order you like. Bounce around, or one thing at a time. Doesn't really matter.
Thiago Klafke (maybe I mispelled, just going on memory) has a good tutorial for this whole process. I am sure you can probably find some tutorials for free as well. And if you search through other environment artist threads here you will see some variation of this process. Some people might change up the steps slightly but for the most part I think you'll see that people do a rough block in both for shapes, colors, and lighting before they move into detailed modeling and texturing, and then finalize the lighting and post process.
The big principle to keep in mind is that you try to answer the most important parts about the artwork in a way that allows you maximum flexibility to make changes, and only once you are satisfied do you go into the time-consuming detailing.
It may help to get your favorite spreadsheet app out too and breakdown the entire project into task. You might list every model needed, every texture, and estimate time needed for things like lighting and figuring out shaders or trim sheets or whatever. Then you can organize all those task into the big phases.
Blockout Shapes Rough
Blockout Colors Rough
Blockout Lighting Rough
Blockout Shapes Refine
Blockout Colors Refine
Blockout Lighting Refine
and so on.
Having the checklist means that you don't have to try and load so much shit into your brain. You take care of that once, write it down, and then when it is time to work you can just focus on the task at hand with confidence. Ship is already on course, now you just have to do the work.
You can also log your time working and add that to the spreadsheet, and then after the project is done you can review it. Maybe you see that you spent like 50% more time in one task than another, but the effect of that task wasn't very important, and so for the next project you'll have a better idea how to prioritize things.
This is great advice, I came here today looking for this.... The hardest part i have in starting any project is starting itself, there are so many questions before starting.
Is this project going to have an impact on my portfolio ? How long will it take ? Will i be able to finish the project ? Where do I start ? What do I draw ? What challenges will I face ? Will I have to create every material by myself ?, Sculpt every rock ?, how realistic and detailed do i make it ?, how many objects do I create ?
and so on, but once i have passed the starting phase of a project then it is lots of fun, but it is the beginning that is the hardest part of any projects that I do.
The biggest challenge I have to face is texturing, since creating every single texture in substance designer can be very hard and it is expensive enough paying for those software that buying materials for a project that I don't know will even get views or likes or impact on my portfolio is a problem. I wanted the weapon to have a material where the dust is mixed with the gun's grease but I didn't even know where to start, how does one approach that?, is it through a smart mask ?, or mixture of smart materials and smart masks... and does that require substance designer or do people create those with substance painter itself ?. As you can see on the render with the top removed, the insides are clean while they should have grease.. I didn't know how to approach that.
Another example is this part right here, How is that wood pattern made so that it shows the rings exactly how the wood extrudes to create that handle ? another examples of the same weapon modeled by another artist showed different pattern of wood on the top part that seemed like plywood layers. All these details together creates a story in a prop, which gives another level of realism to the model.
depending on what job you are going for, level design and making materials in substance designer might be different disciplines. If that is the case and you are working on world/level design, then you could give yourself a break and not make all the textures in designer.
And if you were trying to be a material artist specializing in designer, then you can give yourself a break and not make entire level art scenes.
I'm not very familiar with what jobs specialize in designer usage, I think it's more of a tech-arty type of role, but it's probably worthwhile to ask around about it. The point of division of labor is so that any one job isn't overwhelming. If you are feeling overwhelmed with the amount of things to do, that could mean that you are simply going beyond the job description. This won't be a good thing to do because it could harm the quality of the work you are doing, and also employers won't care that you did something above and beyond - they just want the job they are hiring for to be done as well as possible.
depending on what job you are going for, level design and making materials in substance designer might be different disciplines. If that is the case and you are working on world/level design, then you could give yourself a break and not make all the textures in designer.
And if you were trying to be a material artist specializing in designer, then you can give yourself a break and not make entire level art scenes.
I'm not very familiar with what jobs specialize in designer usage, I think it's more of a tech-arty type of role, but it's probably worthwhile to ask around about it. The point of division of labor is so that any one job isn't overwhelming. If you are feeling overwhelmed with the amount of things to do, that could mean that you are simply going beyond the job description. This won't be a good thing to do because it could harm the quality of the work you are doing, and also employers won't care that you did something above and beyond - they just want the job they are hiring for to be done as well as possible.
Alex_J Well, that's the thing... How do I make good artwork without making good art, and how do I make good art without good modeling AND texturing because if i post acceptable models with bad texturing wouldn't that lower my chances of getting hired ?. Don't get me wrong I am not complaining, I just need some guidance and to know how some of the artists on artistation and here create those masterpieces ?, their texture work is incredible. Do they buy those materials or do they create it themselves, some of them do post that they have worked on substance designer and their learning capacity is just amazing to have mastered more than one medium.
the_dlearner for hijacking your post I hope you don't mind, I think its better than creating a new one since the topic is kinda same.
for example, I have asked some people on discord to criticise my portfolio and the biggest critique was texturing.... for example in my last work, I tried to do some texturing on this model :
I wanted the weapon to have a material where the dust is mixed with the gun's grease but I didn't even know where to start, how does one approach that?, is it through a smart mask ?, or mixture of smart materials and smart masks... and does that require substance designer or do people create those with substance painter itself ?. As you can see on the render with the top removed, the insides are clean while they should have grease.. I didn't know how to approach that.
Another example is this part right here, How is that wood pattern made so that it shows the rings exactly how the wood extrudes to create that handle ? another examples of the same weapon modeled by another artist showed different pattern of wood on the top part that seemed like plywood layers.
All these details together creates a story in a prop, which gives another level of realism to the model.
Credits of image above to pattrick sutton on artstation.
best to make your own thread and show progress of your model as you are working on it, and at each stage of the process try to get tips before you start, and then get critiques after you finish.
For tips before you start you should mention your goal for the stage, how you plan to accomplish it, and then ask for feedback about that action plan (not just something like, "guys i am texturing how do i do it really good?")
For example: "I am making this gun model. I completed the modeling and have unwrapped the UV's like so. Now I will do a trial run with the textures. My goal is to look similar to this reference: {reference}. My plan is to use {software} and use a {workflow} approach because I think it will be good for X and Y reasons."
At that point somebody might be like, "why are you using {software} for that?" or "you could try this workflow instead"
then a week later you post the results and they aren't quite what you hoped - it is pretty easy for some pro artist to look at what you did and how you did it and suggest alternatives.
Alex_J Well,
that's the thing... How do I make good artwork without making good art,
and how do I make good art without good modeling AND texturing because
if i post acceptable models with bad texturing wouldn't that lower my
chances of getting hired ?. Don't get me wrong I am not complaining, I
just need some guidance and to know how some of the artists on
artistation and here create those masterpieces ?, their texture work is
incredible. Do they buy those materials or do they create it themselves,
some of them do post that they have worked on substance designer and
their learning capacity is just amazing to have mastered more than one
medium.
The weapon above is pretty janky. If you are going for a job this is something I wouldn't show. The work looks pretty ripped, like it was yanked from an older title. Details on the model are wobbly, either the geometry or normal maps and some of those are just straight incorrect.
Make your own models. If you are unsure how to start just search youtube. If you like the idea of making lowpoly models you can find low priced courses on creating and optimizing geometry and texturing those models. Yeah its a lot of work, but it is the most fun you can have with your pants on!
Alex_J Well,
that's the thing... How do I make good artwork without making good art,
and how do I make good art without good modeling AND texturing because
if i post acceptable models with bad texturing wouldn't that lower my
chances of getting hired ?. Don't get me wrong I am not complaining, I
just need some guidance and to know how some of the artists on
artistation and here create those masterpieces ?, their texture work is
incredible. Do they buy those materials or do they create it themselves,
some of them do post that they have worked on substance designer and
their learning capacity is just amazing to have mastered more than one
medium.
The weapon above is pretty janky. If you are going for a job this is something I wouldn't show. The work looks pretty ripped, like it was yanked from an older title. Details on the model are wobbly, either the geometry or normal maps and some of those are just straight incorrect.
Make your own models. If you are unsure how to start just search youtube. If you like the idea of making lowpoly models you can find low priced courses on creating and optimizing geometry and texturing those models. Yeah its a lot of work, but it is the most fun you can have with your pants on!
Sorry english isn't my main language so I don't know most of the slangs, Could you elaborate on what you mean by the work being pretty ripped or yanked from older title or janky ?. regarding the wobbly edges, those might be due to the texture resolution and the normals strength on the damaged edges.
I would suggest you try to model/texture things you can actually see and hold (unless you have physical access to an AK-47, idk...). The more experience you have, the easier it gets to critique your own work. If you can get your hands on old tools or machine parts which would develop the same kind of wear/grunge, it'll be easier to understand. Understanding how things are replicated in Substance will come with experience. I'm not a fan of learning by tutorial, because you only get good at following tutorials. Think about what your trying to replicate - in this case gun grease. Where is it on the model, how does it look under different lighting? Yes, its mostly masking different materials, but first you need to understand those materials, and this is why replicating something you can physically hold is really helpful.
Ok, what I meant to say is the model looks taken from an older game because I don't know how its possible to mess the textures up in some places and not in others. Its not clear to me if you know about model UVs. If you dont search for information about them on youtube. If language is a barrier then perhaps seek out an inexpensive tutorial in you own language.
@Benjammin That's true, I have an AK on hand but the problem is lack of technical knowledge.. I mean I understand that in substance painter we can use the assets already in the application and modify them to achieve desired results. What I didn't know is how to create my own asset that is not already in the application or available online. Also i agree with you on following tutorials, they only make you good at following tutorials but to understand the technical aspects of a software like what different nodes/modifiers do it's the fastest approach.
@kanga No I finished the model just before I started texturing, I don't understand how i messed up the texture either which is why i was hoping someone might guide me through what's wrong with the texturing in the AKM model and what the final result should have been, The UVW maps have no stretches and the texel density is uniform throughout the model. Regarding finding tutorials in my language, its impossible and i doubt there is a single tutorial out there in my language ... although I can understand english I am not familiar with slangs.
Anyways, I decided i'll give a couple of months to learn substance designer and be done with it, also found some lessons from game dev experts about texturing so I'll see what they have to teach and try new models with new methods..... rinse and repeat till i get it right.
@Benjammin That's true, I have an AK on hand but the problem is lack of technical knowledge.. I mean I understand that in substance painter we can use the assets already in the application and modify them to achieve desired results. What I didn't know is how to create my own asset that is not already in the application or available online. Also i agree with you on following tutorials, they only make you good at following tutorials but to understand the technical aspects of a software like what different nodes/modifiers do it's the fastest approach.
Creating assets in Designer is more of a technical art type of thing - if you want to be a weapon/prop/enviro artist I'd say there are better uses of your time - Painter has everything you need for this sort of texturing.
smart materials and mask are just convenience time savers.
if you can look at a model and recognize that there is grease where there should be grease, the only technical thing you have to know to do l is how to use a layer mask.
You make a fill layer for the grease, you mask it black, and then paint white to expose the grease. Mask says where it goes, and the fill layer defines what will be there.
If you use a basic hard brush, the mask will not look realistic. So you get some grunge alpha to use with the brush and then you can make more realistic noise on the mask.
Smart materials and mask do the same thing, you just use them to target parts of the model using specific rules. Like "only convex areas". Many people use smart material for a quick block in, but then go through by hand to do a more detailed job.
The grunges and textures come for free in most texturing apps. You can also find all you'll ever need for free or cheap online. Just google for that.
Substance designer is not the tool of choice for making unique textures like you see on hero props like weapons. If your goal is to make hero props like weapons I think you'll be wasting time learning it. If you are trying to get an environment artist role at a large studio which calls for a designer specialist I think making props which have unique baked textures wouldn't be something the job typically calls for. Whatever you are trying to do, find a person who does that and ask them exactly what you need to know.
To make textures like a wood grain you probably start from some hi res photos and then the various microsurface details come from grunge textures. There is tons of existing textures out there for wood that will supply you with color, height, normal, roughness, AO, etc. Megascans and libraries like that. You can create textures from scratch yourself, but that is not something you really need to do in most cases if you are focused on being a modeler. Usually just finding something close to what you need and then modifying it is enough.
Modifying image files is usually done in photoshop or similar but you can probably get most of what you need done in your 3d texturing app. Things like using a Levels filter, HSL filter, etc. Adding additional layers and using a blend mask to modify the original.
Since you have an ak47 model which must be the worlds most popular 3d model, you can probably find some better versions of the same thing available for free on sketchfab. YOu could download one and then you are able to side by side comparison with yours. Then you can see specifically what they did different.
by the way, polycount is chock full of great texturing tutorials. Ben bolton as linked above is great at weapons, I believe Frank Polygon has some great texturing guides for similar things in his sketchbook, and just search around because I know I have seen quite a few over the years. I think mushasidan or something like that might be another good name to search. Another good place to find lots of expert level tutorials for texturing and rendering is marmoset website. check the tutorials section.
Your English in terms of conversing via text, is fine. In fact without seeming to be patronising, slightly better than I'm able most of time articulate a sentence, people can understand and I'm a native speaker! Especially when attempting to describe a gamedev, aspect or related issue due to this medium's reliance upon technical competency aside from artistic.
Anyhow, firstly I'm not sure if this was mentioned already but the lighting looks overexposed, really harsh which may explain why there appears to be a subsurface scattering effect, on your wood material plus outputting overall glossiness so may seem an incorrect IOR value for metal, particularly when compared too that artstation reference post?! Hence imo there's hardly any definition or texture variation, put simply it's as if the Bakelite pistol grip material is reading on every surface...
Secondly, where you've applied dirt/dust in cavities plus certain other areas that'll often attract as well, is fairly consistent to real world environment weathering alongside high and low frequency tertiary detail (...scratches, worn metal or edge wear) also notice subtle height information for your wood texture, where I'd expect to see it so personally not entirely convinced, it's solely a texturing problem per se....maybe leaning more towards final presentation?!
I've a military background so was trained to lubricate the weapon's working parts, with minimal application of oil out in the field whilst grease was reserved for storage in an armory or transit over a period of time.
Replies
This is great advice, I came here today looking for this.... The hardest part i have in starting any project is starting itself, there are so many questions before starting.
Is this project going to have an impact on my portfolio ?
How long will it take ?
Will i be able to finish the project ?
Where do I start ? What do I draw ? What challenges will I face ?
Will I have to create every material by myself ?, Sculpt every rock ?, how realistic and detailed do i make it ?, how many objects do I create ?
and so on, but once i have passed the starting phase of a project then it is lots of fun, but it is the beginning that is the hardest part of any projects that I do.
The biggest challenge I have to face is texturing, since creating every single texture in substance designer can be very hard and it is expensive enough paying for those software that buying materials for a project that I don't know will even get views or likes or impact on my portfolio is a problem. I wanted the weapon to have a material where the dust is mixed with the gun's grease but I didn't even know where to start, how does one approach that?, is it through a smart mask ?, or mixture of smart materials and smart masks... and does that require substance designer or do people create those with substance painter itself ?. As you can see on the render with the top removed, the insides are clean while they should have grease.. I didn't know how to approach that.
Another example is this part right here, How is that wood pattern made so that it shows the rings exactly how the wood extrudes to create that handle ? another examples of the same weapon modeled by another artist showed different pattern of wood on the top part that seemed like plywood layers.
All these details together creates a story in a prop, which gives another level of realism to the model.
And if you were trying to be a material artist specializing in designer, then you can give yourself a break and not make entire level art scenes.
I'm not very familiar with what jobs specialize in designer usage, I think it's more of a tech-arty type of role, but it's probably worthwhile to ask around about it. The point of division of labor is so that any one job isn't overwhelming. If you are feeling overwhelmed with the amount of things to do, that could mean that you are simply going beyond the job description. This won't be a good thing to do because it could harm the quality of the work you are doing, and also employers won't care that you did something above and beyond - they just want the job they are hiring for to be done as well as possible.
the_dlearner for hijacking your post I hope you don't mind, I think its better than creating a new one since the topic is kinda same.
for example, I have asked some people on discord to criticise my portfolio and the biggest critique was texturing.... for example in my last work, I tried to do some texturing on this model :
ArtStation - AKM - 3rd try, Belal Jalalzai
I wanted the weapon to have a material where the dust is mixed with the gun's grease but I didn't even know where to start, how does one approach that?, is it through a smart mask ?, or mixture of smart materials and smart masks... and does that require substance designer or do people create those with substance painter itself ?. As you can see on the render with the top removed, the insides are clean while they should have grease.. I didn't know how to approach that.
Another example is this part right here, How is that wood pattern made so that it shows the rings exactly how the wood extrudes to create that handle ? another examples of the same weapon modeled by another artist showed different pattern of wood on the top part that seemed like plywood layers.
All these details together creates a story in a prop, which gives another level of realism to the model.
Credits of image above to pattrick sutton on artstation.
For tips before you start you should mention your goal for the stage, how you plan to accomplish it, and then ask for feedback about that action plan (not just something like, "guys i am texturing how do i do it really good?")
For example:
"I am making this gun model. I completed the modeling and have unwrapped the UV's like so. Now I will do a trial run with the textures. My goal is to look similar to this reference: {reference}. My plan is to use {software} and use a {workflow} approach because I think it will be good for X and Y reasons."
At that point somebody might be like, "why are you using {software} for that?" or "you could try this workflow instead"
then a week later you post the results and they aren't quite what you hoped - it is pretty easy for some pro artist to look at what you did and how you did it and suggest alternatives.
Sketchbook: Ben Bolton
Sorry english isn't my main language so I don't know most of the slangs, Could you elaborate on what you mean by the work being pretty ripped or yanked from older title or janky ?. regarding the wobbly edges, those might be due to the texture resolution and the normals strength on the damaged edges.
The model is made by me.
Thanks.
Understanding how things are replicated in Substance will come with experience. I'm not a fan of learning by tutorial, because you only get good at following tutorials. Think about what your trying to replicate - in this case gun grease. Where is it on the model, how does it look under different lighting?
Yes, its mostly masking different materials, but first you need to understand those materials, and this is why replicating something you can physically hold is really helpful.
@kanga No I finished the model just before I started texturing, I don't understand how i messed up the texture either which is why i was hoping someone might guide me through what's wrong with the texturing in the AKM model and what the final result should have been, The UVW maps have no stretches and the texel density is uniform throughout the model. Regarding finding tutorials in my language, its impossible and i doubt there is a single tutorial out there in my language
Anyways, I decided i'll give a couple of months to learn substance designer and be done with it, also found some lessons from game dev experts about texturing so I'll see what they have to teach and try new models with new methods..... rinse and repeat till i get it right.
Thanks for your time.
if you can look at a model and recognize that there is grease where there should be grease, the only technical thing you have to know to do l is how to use a layer mask.
You make a fill layer for the grease, you mask it black, and then paint white to expose the grease. Mask says where it goes, and the fill layer defines what will be there.
If you use a basic hard brush, the mask will not look realistic. So you get some grunge alpha to use with the brush and then you can make more realistic noise on the mask.
Smart materials and mask do the same thing, you just use them to target parts of the model using specific rules. Like "only convex areas". Many people use smart material for a quick block in, but then go through by hand to do a more detailed job.
The grunges and textures come for free in most texturing apps. You can also find all you'll ever need for free or cheap online. Just google for that.
Substance designer is not the tool of choice for making unique textures like you see on hero props like weapons. If your goal is to make hero props like weapons I think you'll be wasting time learning it. If you are trying to get an environment artist role at a large studio which calls for a designer specialist I think making props which have unique baked textures wouldn't be something the job typically calls for. Whatever you are trying to do, find a person who does that and ask them exactly what you need to know.
To make textures like a wood grain you probably start from some hi res photos and then the various microsurface details come from grunge textures. There is tons of existing textures out there for wood that will supply you with color, height, normal, roughness, AO, etc. Megascans and libraries like that. You can create textures from scratch yourself, but that is not something you really need to do in most cases if you are focused on being a modeler. Usually just finding something close to what you need and then modifying it is enough.
Modifying image files is usually done in photoshop or similar but you can probably get most of what you need done in your 3d texturing app. Things like using a Levels filter, HSL filter, etc. Adding additional layers and using a blend mask to modify the original.
Since you have an ak47 model which must be the worlds most popular 3d model, you can probably find some better versions of the same thing available for free on sketchfab. YOu could download one and then you are able to side by side comparison with yours. Then you can see specifically what they did different.
by the way, polycount is chock full of great texturing tutorials. Ben bolton as linked above is great at weapons, I believe Frank Polygon has some great texturing guides for similar things in his sketchbook, and just search around because I know I have seen quite a few over the years. I think mushasidan or something like that might be another good name to search. Another good place to find lots of expert level tutorials for texturing and rendering is marmoset website. check the tutorials section.