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Industry strugglin'

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Ashervisalis grand marshal polycounter
Whats up peeps, hope everyone is doing well.

I wanted to get this up here and get a discussion going about how much our industry is struggling at the moment. Thankfully I still have a job, so this post isn't about that. However, every day (no exaggeration), I'm seeing news of copious amounts of people being laid off from games, VFX and animation studios. Projects getting cancelled, studios shutting down... I have to say, this is my first "winter" in the industry.

I just can't for the life of me figure out what is causing it. You could say the writers strike, but that shouldn't affect games. People are still buying games. So what gives?

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  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    I've been noticing it as well, and have struggled getting back into the games industry, after a layoff over at Wayfair (not in games, but adjacent tech, in many ways)-- job postings seem largely inactive, or are only posting senior positions, etc. And even those seem to go unfilled for long stretches.

    My assumption was that it was all an extension of the bigger tech layoffs (meta, twitter, etc), which scared some adjacent industries; but I can't pretend to really know. Also jobs in many other sectors are booming. Retail, etc, can't seem to find people fast enough.

    Curious to see what others have to say too! In the past, I've never had this much difficulty finding work, or even interviews, despite my portfolio (while still lacking) being considerably better than in previous years.
  • hwaminjung
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    hwaminjung polycounter lvl 3
    This is mostly just assumptions from the perspective of a junior looking for work (Been looking since Decemeber).
    I heard that during COVID, there was a lot more hires in general which is part of why there were so many layoffs this year.
    I think also for games, development costs are so expensive, and there is so much investment money on the line, that when a project fails it breaks the company, leading to mass layoffs.
    I rarely see anything for juniors, probably because there are plenty of senior level artists willing to take the same job.
  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis grand marshal polycounter
    @hwaminjung Yeah, during covid, it was extremely easy to get a job, especially up here in Vancouver. Every company was fighting over each artist, no matter the skill level. There was just so much content coming out.

  • Benjammin
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    Benjammin greentooth
    Game dev in the 2020's  is really expensive, and the expectations get higher every year.
    Steam is a brutal, unforgiving marketplace. 
    Subscription services are generally pretty bad deals for developers - you get paid a lump sum which is almost certainly less than you would earn in regular sales.
    Risk is higher, returns are lower. So, you're seeing higher prices on games. There's all sorts of psychology around price points where an extra $5-10 feels too high for a consumer, but could make a lot of impact on revenue.

    On top of all the industry specific things, the world isn't the most stable place right now, so a slowdown on investment in entertainment isn't surprising.



  • JoeXLegacy
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    JoeXLegacy polycounter lvl 11
    It's definitely felt. Having trouble finding work now. To top it off 3 clients were literal scammers this month I wasted weeks of dedicated work (even with deposits and contracts), they just ghost and I lose money. Job posts dead, it's like the industry is a dead server with only scammers running around pretending to hire. It has killed my vibe, I am feeling awful and I don't know what to do financially I have a general feeling of fear for my future.
  • Ashervisalis
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    Ashervisalis grand marshal polycounter
    @JoeXLegacy I wouldn't fear too much for your future my dude. A lot of people tell me this industry goes in waves, ups and downs. Just gotta ride this one out. Best of luck, be safe when doing work for people. You can tell future clients about the scammers and ask them for the $$$ up front?
  • JoeXLegacy
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    JoeXLegacy polycounter lvl 11
    @Ashervisalis I think it's pretty safe to say that in 2, 3, 4 years are careers are dead because of AI or will completely move to it.
  • Joopson
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    Joopson quad damage
    @Ashervisalis I think it's pretty safe to say that in 2, 3, 4 years are careers are dead because of AI or will completely move to it.
    I wouldn't call that safe to say; more like who can say. We can speculate all we like, but at this stage, 2-4 years still feels like jumping the gun, to me. But, of that day and hour knoweth no man, etc etc.
  • poopipe
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    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    There's a bit of a depression phase at the moment, it's not the first and it won't be the last. 

    Currently..
    The world economy is in the shitter so people are spending less on things they don't need
    The consequences of spoiling your games to force growth has started to really hit the large publishers 
    The Covid bubble that made us all rich over 21/22 has popped
    The upshot of that is that studios aren't hiring at the rate they have been because they don't have enough money 

    Personally I hope we're moving towards a few years of AA success stories

    and - once again. 
    Robots aren't going to take your job unless you're useless. 

  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    "The consequences of spoiling your games to force growth has started to really hit the large publishers"

    @poopipe , what does that mean, "spoiling a game?"  Do you mean like over-use of monetization stuff that eventually drives away players?
  • poopipe
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    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    yep, well that and all the pressures that come with being publicly traded.  
  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher veteran polycounter
    The industry definitley goes through waves, usually tied to the overall economy. I remember it being like this during 2008-2010 where there seemed to be a ton of studio closures, layoffs every week etc.

    With interest rates blasting upwards, it is a lot higher risk to fund speculative projects these days, when money is cheap you have all the big boys throwing cash to start studios, fund smaller teams with high risk projects hoping for the next big 100x return. with money no longer being cheap 1-2% interest rates, even the largest publishers are locking down their risk management.

    there has also been a huge amount of trend chasing going on, first it was live service/battle pass games but I think its been pretty evident no one is unseating the top titles like fortnite, COD, or destiny for live service games. The next trend to be chased was the extraction shooter given the success of Tarkov and now you have big players like COD releasing titles in that space, which makes it almost impossible for smaller games with less marketing budget to break through and capture audience share, especially as most of them tend to feel very similar and 3-4 years into this trend it has lost its luster a bit, right as those trend chasing projects finish their dev cycles and no longer will make a splash. 

    for the last couple years my inbox was flooded with recruiters every week trying to snag talent and that has definitley slowed down a bit, where it used to be 5-6 a week now its about 1-2, especially as more studios move to hybrid or forcing talent back in house, which I have zero interest in. This also usually goes in cycles when tons of projects are ramping up but given the amount of studio closures and layoffs at the moment, I would guess there are a lot less projects moving into their full production phases vs speculative pre-pro. 

    Like I said, the pendulum tends to swing back and forth every few years in line with the economy and trends so I would guess we are in for a couple years of rougher seas. However, there definitley is still a demand for high end talent, people with bangin' portfolios are still getting hired it is just more competitive. This also happens in waves where every few years people with mid range skillsets and who just want to have a good job and coast tend to leave the industry and get weeded out either from burnout or waves of layoffs and not being able to find work. Back in 2009 roughly 1/3rd of my friend groups in the industry either quit or lost their jobs and ended up changing industries after not being able to find a new gig.

    My advice would be what it normally tends to be, focus on the things you can control, the quality of your portfolio and making sure it is actually at the level of current industry standard quality, with interesting eye catching work. Also jobs that are closer to the player experience that really need to be done in house due to iteration speed like world building/level design, lighting and anything gameplay related will probably be more in demand vs asset creation which can be outsourced for much cheaper in a weaker economic situation. 

    students with a basic portfolio of a couple brick/rock substance designer shader balls, a generic AK47/M4 and a couple basic props like a fire extinguisher or scifi crate are going to struggle. I always recommend specializing and showcasing a very focused set of skills that shows a higher level of mastery in a given niche job than a very basic generalist skillset. Yes generalists can still get hired but you tend to see those people with a very high level of skill across the board and a portfolio filled with much more complex assets and scenes due to having a senior level of experience. 
  • littleclaude
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    littleclaude quad damage

    I would say the games industry is turbulent due to Global Events and the huge shifts of uncertanty post Covid. On top of this Seasonal Trends and so many different Technology Shifts going on. I have students making Assets for Dekogon with polycounts that I could only have dreamed of. Then there is the Economic Factors, Development Cycles, Market Demand, Studio Growth and Contraction, Outsourcing, Regulatory Changes, Mergers and Acquisitions its hard to work out what is going on.

    Some good news from TIGA

    Here is some good news from the UK, Employment in the UK games development industry rose 15.2% between December 2021 and April 2023, a new report from trade body TIGA revealed.

    According to TIGA's Making Games in the UK 2023 report, the number of full-time employees went from 20,975 to 24,155 during that period, representing an annualised rise of 11.4%.

    New figures published today by TIGA also found that 51.9% of full-time staff are employed by foreign-owned studios, up from 40% in 2017.

    8.8% of UK studios are owned by parent companies headquartered overseas, compared to 6% in 2021.

    According to TIGA, the "headcount growth rate" for international studios with five or more development staff was twice that of UK-owned studios between December 2021 and April 2023.

    There were 159 overseas-owned studios as of April 2023, and they grew by an average of 25% compared to 10% for UK-based studios.

    Overall, the number of studios in the UK increased by almost 18% over the same period, from 1,528 to 1,801. According to the data, annual investments made by studios rose 27.7% from £1.3 billion to £1.66 billion.

    Overseas games companies invested £2.5 billion in UK games production over the past five years. They reportedly contributed over £5.5 billion to the UK economy "before any additional impacts of acquisitions are taken into account."

    TIGA estimated that the "combined direct and indirect tax revenues" generated by the UK's games development sector increased 25% from £1.2 billion to £1.5 billion between December 2021 and April 2023. Overall, the game development industry contributed £3.68 billion to the UK's GDP (compared to £2.9 billion in December 2021).

    The report also found that nearly 80% of the UK's games development workforce lives outside London, where only 22% of employees work.

    Approximately one-fifth of development staff are located in the South East, 12% in the North West, 10% in the West Midlands, and 9.1% in Scotland.

    The Making Games in the UK 2023 report was based on extensive surveys with UK games businesses, along with analysis by Games Investor Consulting.

    Source Article - gamesindustry.biz 

    TIGA Source Article - https://tiga.org/news/studio-numbers-employment-rise-in-uk-video-games-industry-new-tiga-research 

  • Neox
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    Neox godlike master sticky
    for vfx its somewhat simple, hollywood unions are on strike, no movies are made, projects get halted. the way many vfx studios are set up is super tight knit, one project falls apart, a lot of stuff goes tumbling down.

    as for games, embracer group gambling with money they didnt have is a thing, so they are selling and shutting down what they can.
    and besides the whole embracer debacle, covid is "over" people don't play as much anymore and money isn't cheap anymore, interest rates are going up. It's easy to build teams throwing around money that isnt yours but venture capital. But if a project fails to deliver, investors will just shut it down.
    throwing money at a product doesnt mean it will be a good product, even if its a good product it doesnt mean it can't under perform and gets shut down regardless of it's quality.
  • zetheros
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    zetheros sublime tool
     wake me up when there's not a massive corporate blunder in our industry every other week
  • Eric Chadwick
    This resonated recently :D 


  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter
    This resonated recently :D 


    Its also how experience is measured. 
    Like in my previous job which was in 3D character art, it was my experience in QA and Dentistry that helped with data entry and managing hundreds of character models that needed to be modified synchonously to match references.

    I was doing character art but the art pipeline is proprietary so a lot needed to be learned on the job and it needed unwavering discipline and commitment.
    In that sense the experience that needs to be measured is overall competancy since the role depends on a lot more than what studio you worked at before.

    I also feel that the practice of poaching artists from another studio should be secondary to hiring new talent.
    And they really ought to drop the junior, mid, senior metric, everyone at the studios I've worked was junior in something or the other and had to figure a whole lot of stuff out as a team since the needs of the project always changed.

    Their seniority was more in being adaptable, but I'm not sure how that connects to work experience gained at another studio.
    In that sense I sometimes feel that the whole idea of hiring seniority and poaching may have more to do with justifying funding and investment, meaning you pitch that you hiring top talent when in reality that top talent is still watching tutorials on the job and needs a helping hand from time to time just like any other employee.

    What I consider to be genuine seniority and genius in art are the likes of Keos Masons, Vitaly Bulgarov, Mike Butkus and they work independently as they rightly should. (Also must mention Paul Pepera and Mike Nash who we'll always look up to RIP)

    Also students graduating from game dev programs do have work experience starting out given how the programs are structured. This ought to be considered.
    Though I fear that a lot just gets lost in translation in a competitive job market.


  • thomasp
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    thomasp hero character
    Just spat my morning tea all over the screen when reading this: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/28/23894266/epic-games-layoffs-fortnite-unreal-engine

    Epic laying off over 800.


  • rollin
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    rollin polycounter
    thomasp said:
    Just spat my morning tea all over the screen when reading this: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/28/23894266/epic-games-layoffs-fortnite-unreal-engine

    Epic laying off over 800.


    Yea that was a good one.. wondering where these jobs are and what they where doing.
    I didn't even know that epic was about 5000 people ?!
    With that work force the Unreal documentation is probably really good.. really really good.
  • zetheros
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    zetheros sublime tool
    apparently it was mostly Bandcamp, so basically Epic made a bad purchase & fired everyone in that purchase. Oops, I guess
  • Alemja
  • littleclaude
  • MagicMeister
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    MagicMeister triangle
    I've noticed a lot fewer job listings on artstation and other classifieds for game related work. It's a bit worrisome for someone like me who recently graduated from university, is finishing their portfolio, and looking to apply at studios in early 2024. But to be honest, I already knew that this industry is extremely competitive. I think it's just another reason to diversify your skill set, be flexible in what job you're willing to take on in the industry, and never stop diversifying potential income streams.

    Don't give up fellow noobs! The industry may be kind of brutal but I think there's a place at the table for people with passion, skills and commitment.

    Also I know that a lot of noobies like me worry about getting experience for their resume and I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong with trying to make an indie dev game for rev share. It might not be as prestigious as working for a big name studio but I think it probably goes a long way towards showing your commitment when you do land an interview.
  • poopipe
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    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    Also I know that a lot of noobies like me worry about getting experience for their resume and I just wanted to say that there's nothing wrong with trying to make an indie dev game for rev share. It might not be as prestigious as working for a big name studio but I think it probably goes a long way towards showing your commitment when you do land an interview.

    If you can afford to live and do that it's an extremely good way to demonstrate you have the capacity to commit to a project and have seen a production cycle through. 
    University courses are generally far better these days but cannot recreate the pressures, the benefits or the timeframes you see working in the real world. If you've worked on something that shipped commercially in working order - even if it turned out to be a financial failure - you are eliminating a very large question mark about your ability (as an inexperienced person) to make a positive contribution to a team

    Obviously you need to make sure you're not getting screwed over by the people running the project - there's no shortage of scumbags or incompetents out there. 
  • MagicMeister
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    MagicMeister triangle
    poopipe said:

    Obviously you need to make sure you're not getting screwed over by the people running the project - there's no shortage of scumbags or incompetents out there. 
    Absolutely. That's a disclaimer worth its weight in gold. I was fortunate enough to find a club on my University campus, make connections there and join a project through contacts of people that I actually got to meet face to face. Joining an indie project over the internet would pose some difficulties in regards to scoping out the character of the people who run the project.

  • Larry
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    Larry interpolator
    NikhilR said:
    I also feel that the practice of poaching artists from another studio should be secondary to hiring new talent.
    And they really ought to drop the junior, mid, senior metric, everyone at the studios I've worked was junior in something or the other and had to figure a whole lot of stuff out as a team since the needs of the project always changed.

    Their seniority was more in being adaptable, but I'm not sure how that connects to work experience gained at another studio.
    In that sense I sometimes feel that the whole idea of hiring seniority and poaching may have more to do with justifying funding and investment, meaning you pitch that you hiring top talent when in reality that top talent is still watching tutorials on the job and needs a helping hand from time to time just like any other employee.

    Also students graduating from game dev programs do have work experience starting out given how the programs are structured. This ought to be considered.
    Though I fear that a lot just gets lost in translation in a competitive job market.


    I started working in the industry about 2 years ago, through a traineeship for 6 months. I was not getting any money from the gaming studio, but a small benefit from the government. They did not keep me after those 6 months with an excuse that the pace is fast and they need me to go faster. In reality, nobody wanted to sit with me and explain the details even though I was asking. My mentor barely stepped foot to the studio twice the whole time, he was, however trying his best to explain to me via chat. I thought my situation was rather unique, until I heard that almost every other 3d artist from that traineeship had a similar situation with other well-established studios. After that, I was given a chance by a virtual content studio, and they promoted me to a 3d Lead within a year. Gaming studios seem very snobby compared to other studio types within the industry (Ok, film/vfx is not the best either)

    As @PixelMasher mentioned, I came to realise lately that specialization is needed. This is not what I was being told a few years back trying to get my foot into the industry. It was more like 'learn about everything to make your self more appealing'. Now, all the connections I reach out to, asking for work, all tell me 'what do you want to specialize in'. The answer is simple. Whatever the heck the studio needs. Why specialize in some niche by myself, then search for a studio that wants it? I would be glad to do it the other way around. This just cannot be communicated to a studio before, or even during an interview (if I ever get one, at this point. By the way guys, if you can get me an interview with a gaming studio, I will send you baskets of flowers, beer and candy)

    But my 2 cents and frustration about hiring in this industry, everyone wants a Senior that can take choices and act independently, be able to work in areas more than art itself, while they get paid a mediocre salary and work on a mediocre project. The hypocrisy I see on linkedin makes me even angrier. 'Our hearts reach out to the artists, and we're hiring all levels' then applying for juniors and they don't even want to interview you, even if you have experience.
    I guess that's because so much talent is unemployed, that even if you are good enough for that junior position, they will decline you because a 'Senior' in need can grab it. So top talent will get hired first, then veterans, and whoever has survived after that point, might be given the leftovers. I was literally thinking of applying for an internship again, but if they wouldn't keep me after it ends, that would be the biggest farce this industry has to offer at this point.

    Another thing that is happening around Europe, studios with successful titles are being acquired, because of the stable income with minimal effort. Then the studio gets closed down, as they only needed the title. Beep boop, we don't need the people who made the successful title anymore.
  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    if you are learning on the job then you aren't a specialist though. It sounds like they specifically don't want to have to train anybody.

    I don't understand it, it seems like the opposite way to run a business in a sensible way to me. Grabbing a bunch of random people and then trying to go 100mph and then dump most everyone at end only to do it all again. it takes time for a team to learn how to communicate effectively and the difference between team which knows eachother verus not can be major. The software you use to make the product isn't the most important thing, the team is the number one tool which has to be built and refined so rebuilding team for each project seems like insanity to me. But I guess if you are only looking at bottom line on project to project basis, maybe its cheaper.

    Seems like if you got just a few highly motivated and productive people and built a culture of cross training such that over the course of a few projects you have a small tight knit team of generalist who each might have an area of specialty but can fill in for each other for a lot of work, and they all understand that this is a team that is intended to be together for the long haul, you'd have a much more efficient game-making machine compared to trying to wrangle together an army of specialist where each person has little clue what others are doing and probably over-esteems their own narrow specialty such that they waste inordinate time on things which don't contribute to larger goal.

    That's how special forces does it anyway and they are like the 1% that actually makes any difference. A lot of times anyway. I guess there is probably some sort of projects where you just need "bodies" to pump out stuff like fortnite skins and that sort of work might be more attractive to somebody who just wants to sit and grind art without thinking about a lot else. But if you just wanna be a meat machine then you'll always be easy to replace because the team doesn't really depend on you at all so it seems like you are really putting yourself at natures mercy so to speak, rather than being master of your own ship.
  • zetheros
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    zetheros sublime tool
    I started working in the industry about 2 years ago, through a traineeship for 6 months. I was not getting any money from the gaming studio, but a small benefit from the government. They did not keep me after those 6 months with an excuse that the pace is fast and they need me to go faster. In reality, nobody wanted to sit with me and explain the details even though I was asking. My mentor barely stepped foot to the studio twice the whole time, he was, however trying his best to explain to me via chat.
    Welcome to the churn n' burn. This is how most large studios are these days, and the reason why I've stuck with indie dev. Doesn't matter how fast you work or how good your art is, they'll always keep asking for more until you break at which point they'll find a replacement easily and quickly.

  • chien
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    chien polycounter lvl 13
    i also saw recently what has been happening in games, really worry
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