Hell Knight (Complete)

hwaminjung

Hello, I am currently working on making a 3d model based on a concept by Ariel Perez.
It going decently well, but I am not really sure how to tackle the directional scratches on the armor pieces.
Could anyone give me some advice on how to approach this? Thank you.

Alex_J

i think in many cases you'd rather handle such details at the texturing stage so that you have more flexibility.

if you just want to sculpt it because it's only portfolio work and doesn't matter, there is a few approaches...

one, you just match the concept as you see it, whether or not it makes sense. In this case I don't think you need to do anything fancy, these don't really read as deep scratches. Just have to subdivide really high and do light little passes with dam standard or one of the carve brushes. This will be tedious but you just put some music on and in a few hours it is done. The problem is, say you realize that all the scratches are slightly too big... now what? No flexibility.

You could instead use some grunge maps to add as displacemnt but I cant think of any good reason to fuss with that in zbrush. Why tie up the resolution of these details to the baking process?

another approach would be to get more realistic. for that the first question I'd ask is "well what sort of material is this, and how does it actually look when damaged?" To that I can't exactly answer because I'm not sure if this is leather or something else. Maybe some fantasy material. Like chitin or something. If that was the case maybe these arent really scratches from use but just the natural organic patterns you find on things like shells.

Again there I'd prefer to just find or make some organic patterns like that and non-destructively apply them during the texturing phase.

hwaminjung

Do it in the texturing stage huh? Okay, I'll leave that detail out for now.

Fabi_G

Hi! I too would add details that don't contribute to silhouette during texturing, as it allows for faster iteration. Looks cool! I think the definition of the helmet is a step behind the rest (layering of the plates), probably because it's wip.

Keep it up!

hwaminjung

Thanks and you're correct, I am working in the helmet today haha

zetheros

I've been working on a document, it might prove useful. I think you're doing fine now, but the eyeslots could use work. Eyes are the gateway to the soul, and the eyes in the concept are more sinister, cold, and empty. And, some proportions seem off, like the pauldrons.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_KSZgc1E2KBep2OuGpEuPOwibt22GkqbafW6dCv_SZ4/edit?usp=sharing

hwaminjung

zetheros said:

I've been working on a document, it might prove useful. I think you're doing fine now, but the eyeslots could use work. Eyes are the gateway to the soul, and the eyes in the concept are more sinister, cold, and empty. And, some proportions seem off, like the pauldrons.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_KSZgc1E2KBep2OuGpEuPOwibt22GkqbafW6dCv_SZ4/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate all the help I can get. That document is also crazy extensive! Thank you for sharing.

Thought I would show what I have so far. The helmet is pretty challenging for me, especially the breathing holes. I can't quite get them to look right. My eyeslots seem also too rounded right now, so I'll try and narrow them up. Same goes for the pauldrons, I can see now they are actually quite far away from the concept. Will do a general proportion adjustment today.

hwaminjung

Just what I have today

hwaminjung

Small Update with Textures.

Alex_J

love the textures.

the uniformity and cleanliness of the chainmail seems too much maybe?

on the neck it seems like it is form fitting like spandex. Maybe some subtle rolls just to suggest how the rows of links might rest and fold a litle bit?

super cool though

pxgeek

Great progress!

Some of the armor pieces are lacking some definition, like the plate around his hips. It looks soft and pillow-y compared to the pieces on his chest and shoulders...almost like it's unfinished. Maybe the edge bevels are too exaggerated and the thickness is too uneven?
Similar thing with his helmet. It's looking a little lumpy and uncontrolled and belies the hard-surface quality of armor. The silhouette is also a little off compared to the concept, which gives it a different personality, imo.

I don't know if I'm completely sold on the materials either.
It has a very high specular look...almost iridescent, mother of pearl quality. And the surface noise also makes it appear chitinous and ocean themed. (But maybe that was what you were going for?)
I browsed through the concept artist's artstation (awesome work!) and noticed that for a large majority of his concepts he eschews material call-outs for a more specific, painterly look...which is beautiful, for sure, but leaves a lot of room for interpretation for the 3d artist.

hwaminjung

Alex_J said:

love the textures.

the uniformity and cleanliness of the chainmail seems too much maybe?

on the neck it seems like it is form fitting like spandex. Maybe some subtle rolls just to suggest how the rows of links might rest and fold a litle bit?

super cool though

I could try and see what I can do, I tried micropoly this time for the chainmail, and honestly I don't think it looks all that good. I'll do some more research and see if theres a better method, but otherwise just tweak what I have to make it feel less form fitting.

pxgeek said:

Great progress!

Some of the armor pieces are lacking some definition, like the plate around his hips. It looks soft and pillow-y compared to the pieces on his chest and shoulders...almost like it's unfinished. Maybe the edge bevels are too exaggerated and the thickness is too uneven?
Similar thing with his helmet. It's looking a little lumpy and uncontrolled and belies the hard-surface quality of armor. The silhouette is also a little off compared to the concept, which gives it a different personality, imo.

I don't know if I'm completely sold on the materials either.
It has a very high specular look...almost iridescent, mother of pearl quality. And the surface noise also makes it appear chitinous and ocean themed. (But maybe that was what you were going for?)
I browsed through the concept artist's artstation (awesome work!) and noticed that for a large majority of his concepts he eschews material call-outs for a more specific, painterly look...which is beautiful, for sure, but leaves a lot of room for interpretation for the 3d artist.

That's all good feedback, thank you. honestly the armor being pillow-y is probably just a lack of skill on my end. Silhouette too I agree with you, its actually very different. The concept has a really nice flow to the model, mine is a lot more stocky. I'll see what I can do to tweak it in the end.
Materials too, I will keep working on it. Last portfolio pieces I made I got the critique that my materials are too rough and uninteresting, so I think I went too much to the other side. the iridescent feeling too is because I added a lot of colored noise/variation within the metals.
I was going to add more roughness variation (patina/rust/pits etc) and I will tone down the colors. I think getting a more ambient light will make it closer to the concept too.

Alex_J

@hwaminjung

i didnt mean to suggest redoing the material or anything big like that. Just like a little bit of a lump to break up that perfect silouhette curve on the neck. This could just be tiny bit of sculpting detail in the low poly might be enough.

but anyway, it is very nitpicky thing the model and textures are amazing

hwaminjung

Oh yeah, I understood. I just personally wasn't 100% happy with it myself.

hwaminjung

Changed the chainmail, made the weapon/shield. Next will be head + posing.

hwaminjung

Tried out Xgen for the hair. In the final stretch now  Need to try and pose it.

hwaminjung

Thank you everyone for following me throughout the project, and for the valuable feedback you guys gave me.
I wish everyone the best on their projects.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LRBeqv

Alex_J

turned out great, well done