Game art school .... yes another thread

YanTing

Not sure if this is the right place for this but  : 
I'm currently a high school student doing btec extended art and I'm sure that game art is what I want to go for. I'm hoping that maybe one day i'll be either a skin designer , ui artist or environment artist, but I really dont know very much about this industry , so any help would honestly be very appreciated.

I'm hoping that anyone could share some insight on what courses to go for. I have looked at fzd, hertfordshire , gnomon, art center, flinders, falmouth , ringling etc but most reviews I could find were very mixed and with little explanation , or were just straight up not recommended for high school students for various reasons. When I looked here on most threads about game art schools were over a decade old and mainly just said that you should get a gnomon subscription / cgma/ online courses in general , lock yourself in a room and practice like hell for a few years. However , to be honest I would much rather get a degree or diploma at an accredited institution, so I was wondering if anyone had recommendations, or had gone to the unis i mentioned above or know anything about it .

I'm looking for something that will actually help me improve my skills and forgive my language but not be utter bullshit. A lot of the advice on here recommends that game art is a useless degree and that I should study something else and do game art in my own time to learn, but I feel as though this would be a massive waste of energy since I'm sure that this is the field I want to do and since I do btec art at high school (basically means like 80% of my high school classes are art and design) I essentially don't qualify for any uni courses that are not art . I have been in hong kong my entire life so i dont know much about these courses or the areas in general (by that I mean I have never been to america or the uk ever). 

Also , as a side note since the companies I would ideally want to work for are in america , getting a visa to work there (or anywhere) would be very difficult without a degree (allegedly , I'm not 100% sure) so I kind of need one and cant just pick and choose online classes.  So far, the bachelors at gnomon seems to be the best option but it is kind of expensive (as expected since im international) and I've heard that there is a lot of mandatory useless stuff and that the 2 year certificate is better. Second option would currently be university of hertfordshire . 



If you have any advice , opinions , personal experience , portfolio advice etc feel free to comment , I'd really appreciate the help. 

poopipe

For me at least Herts has been the most consistent UK university in terms of producing useful graduates. 

However..
nowhere in Europe compares to DAE at Howest in Belgium except maybe Breda in the Netherlands. 

I've worked with a couple of Gnomon grads and they were solid but it's hard to gauge 'average' quality due to the small sample size - I've hired 30-40 people from herts/DAE/breda over the last decade so I can be more confident talking about them. 

Whether it's worth doing a course or not..  
depends really, if someone else is paying your way then even a shit course is valuable cos you get 3 free years to spend 14 hours a day getting better at your craft. 
if you're having to pay your own way by working you want to make absolutely sure you do a good course cos you're not going to have the extra time for self guided learning. 

carvuliero

If you really want to learn university is not the place to be its a waste if time but if you want to party got drunk and have fun few years then its perfect

University especially in develop countries is huge financial investment which will put you in debt for half of your life for unusable education

Right now online education is kicking university real bad as a flexible affordable alternative with much more skilled and experienced teachers

If you want to learn sub to few online course to get the fundamental then find yourself a mentor to polish them and start making stuff

NikhilR

carvuliero said:

If you really want to learn university is not the place to be its a waste if time but if you want to party got drunk and have fun few years then its perfect

University especially in develop countries is huge financial investment which will put you in debt for half of your life for unusable education

Right now online education is kicking university real bad as a flexible affordable alternative with much more skilled and experienced teachers

If you want to learn sub to few online course to get the fundamental then find yourself a mentor to polish them and start making stuff

University does impart more skills than just getting a top tier portfolio.
Of course its not something you go into debt for, but that is more because of the competitive and unpredictable nature of getting hired in the game dev industry, not your university education.
I know several game artists that are very good at their work but they have little else when it comes to building a well rounded educated individual with healthy life experiences and social skills, that they likely could have gain had they not dropped out or/ gone to university.
Again this is the run of the mill fresh out of highschool grad who's first job is food service/retail. Not taking account artists with exceptional skills for their age though they also lack in many areas of development because of their limited involvement in academic settings.
When they get redundant because of layoff etc, they're practically dead in the water unless another company picks them up.

killnpc

Here's my official school advice:

College is simply borrowed time, utilize it well to develop your skills, otherwise get the hell out of the situation. You have an opportunity to make it work. You take from it what you put into it, this is true inside or outside of any campus. You certainly pay for it in the long run, but it's a hell of a lot easier to develop the skills you want while being immersed in and catered relevant resources in a safe environment geared towards helping you achieve your goals. It's not a for sure thing, results vary, but you won't find that anywhere else.

PS. ANY type of long term pursuit hinging upon a big money loan in a free market has the potential to detrimentally impact your life. Do not sell away your better years and future for a bad deal. Test the waters with a small personal loan and pay it off. If mismanaged, it may only set you back a year, rather than decades.

poopipe

NikhilR said:

University does impart more skills than just getting a top tier portfolio.
Of course its not something you go into debt for, but that is more because of the competitive and unpredictable nature of getting hired in the game dev industry, not your university education.
I know several game artists that are very good at their work but they have little else when it comes to building a well rounded educated individual with healthy life experiences and social skills, that they likely could have gain had they not dropped out or/ gone to university.
Again this is the run of the mill fresh out of highschool grad who's first job is food service/retail. Not taking account artists with exceptional skills for their age though they also lack in many areas of development because of their limited involvement in academic settings.
When they get redundant because of layoff etc, they're practically dead in the water unless another company picks them up.

I hardly ever agree with @NikhilR but this hits the nail on the head 

also.
Being super-good at something doesn't necessarily equate to being super-useful and certainly doesn't equate to being super-employable. You're absolutely useless to anyone if you can't work effectively with people you don't like and I've never met as many people I didn't like as I did when I went to university

Alex_J

Could look at student loan and compare to how many years it takes to pay it off with your most likely job. Seems awfully risky to me given that its not super high paying work, employment is project based, highly competitive... and the thing to compare against is that you can readily learn all necessary skills for free from the internet.

If I was just starting out I'd try to stay debt free as top priority, definitely try to stay away from large cities, and seek remote work so that you can live in a place where you can afford a house. Try to stay away from getting trapped renting and living paycheck to paycheck, which is becoming harder to do.

carvuliero

I guess some of you failed to appreciate quality that came out of this places of higher learning even tho topics that contain 'recent graduate looking for advice and crit ' are very common So this ppl have done their diligence jumped through all the hoops to get a degree but don't have much to show for it without a single acceptable piece that can get them hired So this ppl have to spend x amount of years learning on them own sometimes relearning everything from scratch depends on how big the damage is , spending extra time and money to build a portfolio that is up to par with current hiring standards  Which make 3-4 years in university kind of waste and if you want to build social skill  there are far better place for that like local sport or hobby club for example even corner pub will rate higher then university lol in that regard

Let me give you an example of my own I know a girl with 250k in dept and nothing to show for it

And positive example New master academy combines everything that place of learning need big names with a lot experience and passion for teaching  good and tested curriculum , ton of different topics , wide range of difficulty, for what it offer its cheap  , if there is such thing for 3d that be my recommendation

poopipe

250k of debt has to be a US thing - the US system is stupid and should not be used as a measure for anywhere else in the world
In the UK it's 9k per year (27k total on a low interest loan payable when you earn over a certain threshold),
In some places in Europe it's either free or a couple of k per year because their governments are not blind or stupid (regarding education).

International students pay more but you'd assume they can afford it or they'd study at home.  


You are talking in absolutes about something that has nuance - this is not helpful to anyone.
There are good courses, there are bad courses, there are good students and there are bad students.
A good student will succeed despite a bad course and a bad student will fail regardless of the course. 

sacboi

poopipe said:
A good student will succeed despite a bad course and a bad student will fail regardless of the course.

Rings a bell somewhere....had enrolled into a diploma - second year degree programming packaged course of study ill prepared, as a mature aged student during the aftermath of the late 90s .com craze. Consequently burnt out after only completing three semesters but nonetheless managed to attain the first module, via sheer bloody doggedness too not otherwise quit. Though at the time, with the benefit of hindsight would accrue a substantial cost to ones mental health.

So OP, additionally being 'forewarned is forearmed' a truism which seems pretty obvious on the face of it and perhaps in my case at least, a lesson that didn't necessarily require a steep learning curve to start with.

Frigus

IF I had a chance for being a game art student I absolutely take that chance. But in my country there no university for that so I became self learner with online tutorials. Diploma is always good thing in first step. Of course everything is about with portfolio but in the first meeting I think diploma is important.

Larry

The problem with this field in regards to higher education, is that people go there waiting to be told what to learn and expect that whatever the teachers say is enough.

Imho learning by yourself is a lot more frustrating but will also reward you with problem solving, which is required quite a bit in this field. It can also be cheaper if you stay at home and you have financial support from your family, or working part time while self learning. Going to a uni for 3d is only valuable if you put the extra hours and that's hugely debatable if you get student loans for it.

Realistically, from what I've seen only 2-3 people out of all graduates every year have the necessary art skills to get hired. Are you competitive enough and willing to push yourself to be better than everyone else in your class?  A usual timeline to get hired nowadays would be 5 years from the moment you start learning, assuming you have no other artistic background. Whether going to uni or learning by yourself. People have done it in 3 years, but also in 7.

Eric Chadwick

While I understand how it's difficult to see whether a college degree is needed for a game development career, there's clear evidence it pays off in multiple ways, and across the longer term. There's no harm in seeing it as a skilled trade, separate from university study. I would not recommend a game art school, but would certainly recommend getting a Bachelors art degree if you're seeking an art career. It's certainly made a difference in my career, well worth the cost.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/01/15/new-evidence-documents-that-a-college-degree-pays-off-by-a-lot/

Larry

Eric Chadwick said:

While I understand how it's difficult to see whether a college degree is needed for a game development career, there's clear evidence it pays off in multiple ways, and across the longer term. There's no harm in seeing it as a skilled trade, separate from university study. I would not recommend a game art school, but would certainly recommend getting a Bachelors art degree if you're seeking an art career. It's certainly made a difference in my career, well worth the cost.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2020/01/15/new-evidence-documents-that-a-college-degree-pays-off-by-a-lot/

Are we talking about the US?

Eric Chadwick

I’m in the US, yes. 

Vertrucio

On the other hand, also with the US, despite the benefit of having a bachelor's degree the cost has rapidly risen to the point where the cost to benefit ratio is dubious, especially so with art school.

My recommendation is that if you have a lot of money already, and a support network, some kind of school is a good idea. See if there's state schools with good art programs like my uni, CalState Fullerton. If you don't have that money or support, but do have lots of self discipline and ability to create and stick to tasks, AND are comfortable with creating friends online, then avoiding the cost of college is a very good idea.

You can get some of the benefit by checking out where and what CG programs are, and seeing if you can join up with other students as a study/work group. Back when I studied CG we'd get people from other schools hanging out together with us to work in both our labs, but also outside.

nOLpte8

One thing you could do is look up people on LinkedIn who are working right now and see what school/online program they went to. Often it is some type of university program but you also see the online stuff as well (vertex school, cgma etc...)

Overall I think in terms of school vs teaching yourself I think it comes down to how best are you able to make a portfolio that gets you interviews? If you can create that killer portfolio on your own then school should not be an issue. And for some other people they need/ they do better with more hands on, in person instruction to make that killer portfolio. 

nightoye

Hi

I'm also a Hongkonger so I kind of understand your situation. I'm now studying Game Art in Britain, and I think I‘ve learnt a lot during the past year.

If you want to work in the United States, you need not only artistic skills, but also professional knowledge, English communication, social experience, etc. Living abroad alone can be very stressful.

Regardless, school is a place where you can fail. Coupled with visa issues, choosing a good school is probably very important. (If you come to the UK, maybe we can still be alumni of the same school?)

zetheros

If I had the money to go to an art school I would've, but I didn't so I locked myself in a room and worked on art for 3 years before getting hired. It worked out for me, but you definitely need to be self motivated to do this.

I have had the benefit of taking free courses in college before, but never graduated. The biggest benefit imo is the connections, learning certain values and how to 'learn'. But since I'm a massive introvert and I already know how to learn, the experience wasn't very useful for me.