Normal map weired lines after baking
node
Hi, i hope everyone is healthy.
I always want to ask this question sometimes i tried alot with this to find out what is going on, but never found a legitimate solution.
What could make the normal map show those lines on the edges of the model after baking in sp?
Help would be appreciated.
thanks.
If you are a 3ds max user, so please make sure to let me know about export settings we should use for the fbx.
Replies
Hi! Did you split UVs at hard edges?
Consider attaching files that give you this problem (highpoly, lowpoly). This way people can reproduce the issue, no guessing.
Hi, so here is the screenshot for the same object of UV. So it's all together in one piece. Uvs are relaxed .
It seems like its a normal+height+mesh doing this thing.
Are those edges marked as hard/sharp in your low-poly mesh?
This is the main mesh there is no high/low poly. This is the low - mid poly obj that i am working on. And where to mark it as a hard/sharp ?
If there is no highpoly, what are you baking the normal map from - and why?
Imo your documentation of the issue leaves could be better. Best provide detailed information what you are trying to achieve and how. Add images showing lowpoly, lowpoly UVs, baked normal map, lowpoly with normal map applied and whatever else that helps to understand the issue. Ideally attach files so people can reproduce (requires a good explanation). The less information, the more it becomes a guessing game.
How to set hard edges depends on the application you are working in (Blender, Max, Maya, ... ?). Certainly something you should look into. In Blender hard edges can be defined by choosing "mark sharp" from context menu with edges selected, in Max one can use smoothing groups iirc.
Hey, sorry, yeah I was thinking the same to post everything in detail.
So, here it is -
This is the main mesh. So there is no low poly in it. This model itself is a low poly or you can say a mid poly model.
As you can see the wireframe in image 2.
I have to do the texturing in substance painter. I always face this problem with the hard edges after baking the maps. It's always a normal + height + mesh maps which causes this problem (that weird artifacts on edges). Well, I don't know as you asked me if I don't want to bake normal map why would I need it, I think before texturing we need to bake the model! Isn't this the case? I might not have proper knowledge and I think so I don't have full knowledge. Btw, here is the export settings I use in 3ds max.
And here is the screenshot for the import settings that I use.
These are the bake settings for normal map
So, what I tried, I chamfered all those edges except the horizontal crease going from left to right.
Here is the uv checker if in any case all are relaxed and seems perfect.
Exported and imported everything, I got this. As you can see chamfered edges are fine no issues there but look at that horizontal crease, causing the same weird artifact because its sharp edge. Now I know if it's a sharp edge it would definitely cause the issue.
After beveling all of it everything seems fine now, but I want to learn how I can get the same result with sharp hard edges as I saw the reference of this panel so it was beveled and that's why beveled it later.
But look at these bottom edges I want to get rid of that artifact now. Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Anything you want to know please let me know.
Hi, i wrote the whole long message for this topic and i don't know where it went.
However, i have to re-write this:
So, here is the model as you can see in the image, it not a high/low poly thing. This is the main mesh, i don't know if it's a low poly or mid-level poly.
With and without wireframe.
So, i want to texture this panel in substance painter. I always get this problem when i bake and the problem is in the normal+height+mesh map.
As you said that if i don't have low poly so why would i need to bake it. Well, don't we bake all the maps before starting the texturing work? If this isn't the case so this means i don't have proper knowledge then. PLease clear me out here too and i want to deep dive into this thing.
Here are the export settings in 3ds max that i used.
Here are the import settings
Bake mesh settings for normal map
I baked it and got this result as i showed earlier
and then i beveled the edges
Uv checker if in case you want to see it.
Again i re-did the whole thing and that's what i got. Chamfered edges were fine but the horizontal crease is showing up those weird artifacts. Now i know that if you have sharp hard edges on the model it's gonna cause this. But i think you would help me solve this issue.
Again i added two loops on that horizontal crease.
and i got this in sp
Everything is fine, nice, and beveled, but this was supposed to be like that as I saw the real reference and in the picture edges are beveled. But but, if we need to have sharp edges instead of beveled ones. What should I do, as you can see in the lower picture too? Those edges I want sharp but that weird artifact pisses me off.
Help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Hey! From my view (coming from games) the approach seems a bit convoluted. I would probably go in one of the following directions to get a model with nice shading:
A) Mid-poly, shading by geometry (e.g. bevels + face-weighted normals). Seems you already started going down this path. Process the sharp edges that bother you. Don't bake an object specific normal map, bake (and pack) object specific maps (AO, edges + cavities, dirt masks, ...) to modulate or blend tiling textures in the shader. On top, mesh decals can be layered for more details, plus the model can be detailed with additional meshes. Recently I saw a Calisto Protocol asset on Artstation using this approach, two other games I know of that make use of mid-polys are Star Citizen and Alien Isolation, if you want to take a look.
B) High-poly to low-poly, nothing special. When baking, remember to split UVs at hard edges. Then texture individually (when combining with tiling textures, plan accordingly to hide UVs seams).
Hi, thanks for replying.
Firstly, we don't need to bake an object-specific normal map? But if we put normal decals on our object while texturing, and exporting that would definitely work, right? Because we are exporting the textures and the normal map is going to export? Without baking it right? So in pre-processing, we don't need to bake a normal map except (if we are doing high to low poly) and exporting our textures it's gonna export the normal map? because we would definitely need it.
And yes you are right I have to work with the face-weighted normals. I found a script for that to use for 3dsmax.
and here is the result with the face-weighted normals I didn't bake a normal map in this output. So, again I wanna ask do I need to bake a normal map(except high-low poly convert)? If not, then I am fine with it, and definitely, if I would put some normal decals or anything on the model it's going to export the normal information for sure. right?
Note: The chipped lines you see in the below image is just an image compression.
And here is the result with the normal map baking. You can see those artifacts on hard edges.
Btw can you tell me how can I do that for the edges? If I really want to preserve that hard edge, as you said in the earlier messages that in blender there is an option to make the edges sharp/ hard. So, is there any option in 3ds max that I can apply to keep those edges? Another thing, do I really need to separate the UVs on hard edges? I read a lot of forums and the people who work in the industry say that we need to separate the UVs where there is a hard edge. but literally don't know what should i do now! Because I don't want to separate it because the seems show up and have to do many things to hide those, except the tri-planar.
we don't need to bake an object-specific normal map?
If you don't have any shading/details to transfer (e.g. no high-poly) it's pointless.
But if we put normal decals on our object while texturing, and exporting that would definitely work, right?
Sure, that works. However if you are already going for a unique normal map for the model, why not create a (simple) high-poly to bake from to get the most use out of this unique normal map (soft edges)? That's what seems a bit convoluted to me. But to each their own.
Another thing, do I really need to separate the UVs on hard edges?
If you bake a normal map (from a mesh or bevel shader), yes! Split UVs on hard edges, else you get artifacts. Use hard edges consciously so the normal map has to compensate less on steep angles.
... in blender there is an option to make the edges sharp/ hard. So, is there any option in 3ds max that I can apply to keep those edges?
As far I know, setting hard edges in blender is setting smoothing groups in Max. If by "make edges hard/sharp" you mean tighten their shading, I'd say just use different bevel widths.
As always, what you do and how very much depends on your specific project. I recommend to do some tests to find workflows and rules which can then applied to other assets.
If you feel you are missing some fundamentals, I recommend to look through the wiki (e.g. Texture Baking) and some stickied threads on the forums (e.g. Making sense of hard edges, uvs, normal maps and vertex counts), as well research specific methods (Star Citizen write up), also consult Painter documentation. Maybe watch tutorials to see how other people do things. And if the task becomes too overwhelming (assuming this is a personal project), re-scope!
That thing actually doesn't need any baking from hi res model at all neither` all those beveled 3 edge loops. Could all be done by rounding corners shader in Arnold or "bevel' shader in Cycles.
Or even just done by placing normal map decals in substance painter and later extruding geometry for lod 01 after the normal map.
Hey, Fabi_G, Thanks for all the help.
So far what I have come up with, to get the clean normal bake, split the UVs on hard edges, have a bit of padding in the UVs, and bake normals at 8k just in case, it doesn't hurt. So, finally, I have figured it out. Thanks, a lot Fabi_G, and the other guys. God bless you. :)
besides these asset specific solutions, next time you need to pake this hopefully helps understanding your issues better
https://polycount.com/discussion/107196/making-sense-of-hard-edges-uvs-normal-maps-and-vertex-counts/p1