(3DCoat) What is 3DCoat and is it worth it? Who is using it? Do i need it?
polycounter lvl 3
At my university, i was told today that we are working with 3DCoat. Goal is to create objects and learn to use them in software like Maya. Everybody has to learn Maya, but i can chose the course where 3DCoat is used - or else go to something different.. that's why i am asking about it.
I totally understand why they teach us Maya and not Blender. But 3DCoat kind of confuses me. I never ever heared of it and i don't understand at which point, in the creation of a movie or game, it's used. Everybody is using ZBrush and Blender.
Do you think i can easily translate what i learn in 3DCoat to Blender later on?
Replies
That's apples with oranges. 3D Coat and ZBrush are sculpting apps. Blender is a general 3D package. It compares with Maya, not with 3D Coat and ZBrush.
Blender quits where sculpting starts. In the megapoly range. In Blender turn on dyntopo, turn on the fps counter by hitting play, and watch the screen stutter with a 500k mesh already. At the same pc i sculpt happily and stutter free in ZBrush at a 50 megapoly mesh. Blender is simply no sculpting software. Even when it has sculpting features.
Comparing 3D Coat with ZBrush, well, when it comes to pure sculpting, then Zbrush wins. But it has quite a few other really neat options. The retopology is miles ahead of ZBrush. You can do texture painting at a high level. I would even say it's comparable to Substance Painter. You can do uv mapping and so on. It is more a complement to ZBrush than a replacement. Even compared to Blender 3D Coat has the better texture painting, better UV mapping and better retopo.
All in all 3D Coat is a good complement to both, Blender and ZBrush. The only real downside of 3D Coat is that it is a bit unstable to some. For me it works stable enough though.
Thank you a lot.
Is your goal to get proficient with the tools used in the workplace? Then I'd skip 3D Coat and if possible go with a Zbrush course instead.
In my opinion 3D Coat is a bit of an odd one to encounter in a studio outside of specialty tasks - its an interesting toolbox for sure and I have it on my list of tools to dive into to explore certain aspects of it - but I personally don't care about sticking with an industry standard to be better employable, so there's that. For sculpting it's Zbrush that everyone's using.
I use 3D Coat for a few use cases where it's faster than typical 3d modeling applications (UVs, retopo), or to use the "boolean + Dynamesh" workflow (aka import a messy booleaned model with terrible topology, smooth a few times in the voxel tools, export. You can do this a few times with one model if you want different sized bevels).
Its pricing, upgrade, and license options are pretty great compared to other options. Might be worth picking up while in school and pay a low upgrade cost later for freelance work.
imo, since you're talking about tuition money (i'm gonna assume its a lot), you would be better served learning a more widely adopted tool. i.e maya/max, zbrush, mudbox, or even a game engine (UE/Unity) course if those are options. 3dcoat has a very generous trial license and/or public beta, which makes it a good option to learn on your own time...especially since the things you learn from other apps can be translated over to 3dcoat.
As far as what the app is:
3dc has been around for a while; I think it was primarily its 3d projection painting and retopology/uv tools that put it on the map. (it was pretty much the 3d version of photoshop in its heyday) Over time it grew in functionality, but at the same time there were a lot of other specialized apps released that offered the same functionality, and probably even better.
I used it to retopo and uv almost exclusively back before Max was able to effectively load high poly meshes and still have good viewport performance. And while Max can do that now without problems, I still find it faster and more efficient in 3dc.
I have to learn Unity and Maya. 3D Coat is an extra which is part of the animation-module i picked. i also have twice as more maya lessons than students who picked the film module - they got some extra davinci resolve lessons and have to drive around in the outside world.
The 3D Coat lessons are to expand the other animation-classes with sculpting. Folks from the other modules do not have any sculpting in the base modules.
I wanted to focus on actual animation and not so much onto programming gameplay or doing the perfect 3d illustration. I was just curious about the software because i never ever read about it before. But to learn sculpting overall, it seems pretty solid. I don't think i will have the money to work with zBrush anyway after my education status runs out.
I've been using 3DCoat for about 13 years and ZBrush for about 20. I enjoy both thoroughly and believe that they have their strengths and weaknesses.
ZBrush is the industry standard as most will agree. Go to any studio and there it is. Knowing it makes you more employable. Its ability to handle models with obscene poly counts is is unparalleled. Whenever you need ultra-high detail in your model, ZBrush is the app to use. Low hardware requirements also ensure that it'll run well on even a potato PC.
That said, ZBrush HAS gotten fairly bloated over the years. Too much redundancy in the way of brushes, for example. Additionally, there are numerous old features that feel dated and are fairly broken. Certain signature features such as using ZSpheres as well as its sub-purpose for retopo feel deliciously antiquated. There are better, more modern ways. Pixologic/Maxon, apparently, doesn't know how to deprecate and throw stuff away.
Furthermore, ZBrush's UI/UX feels highly non-standard. When coming from an app such as Maya or Blender, you can and probably will feel a bit of "culture shock" in the UX department. It does things its own way. More over, with a bevvy of options nested and sub-nested ... and sub-nested, it's sometimes easy to lose track of what critical feature is located where. Doubly true if you step away from it for a few weeks, for whatever reason.
3DCoat, visually, looks a bit more standard in the UI department. Don't get me wrong. It too does things its own way and suffers from some clutter, which has gotten better in recent years. However, it looks and feels closer to one of the standard suite apps in the way it operates and is organized. Jumping from Maya or Blender to 3DCoat doesn't feel so jarring.
In the performance department, ZBrush is still king. However, to say that 3DCoat performs at a high level would be an understatement. You can readily sculpt models in that 200mil+ poly range without having to mortgage your home for a super computer. And, let's face it. 200mil polys is MORE than enough for most projects and far beyond what you'd ever use in a game anyway; In that case, you're just going to retopologize to a far, far lower level of detail end product anyway.
3DCoat also benefits from having a broader categorical diversity of features under the hood and is a perfect complement to Blender, for example. While Blender has tools for UV, sculpting and texture painting, 3DCoat's puts them all to shame both in terms of power, functionality, and ergonomics. It's not unreasonable to suggest that in many situations, especially as a freelancer or within a small/developing studio, 3DCoat can function as a credible substitute, replacement for both ZBrush and Substance Painter.
Of course, not being an industry standard means that you put yourself on the outside as a 3DCoat user. Sculpting is sculpting no matter the app. However, having ZBrush on your CV carries more weight when searching for a job.
Additionally, 3DCoat's biggest strength is also its biggest weakness. 3DCoat is, effectively, perma-beta. On the one hand, Pilgway, the developer, constantly updates the app to introduce new features and quality of life tweaks. Unfortunately, being beta also means that each new release brings with it the potential for new bugs. Mercifully, Pilgway is on top of the situation and fixes bugs quickly; There are usually 1-3 betas each week. That said, if you constantly worry about stability then just stick with the latest stable version. That's always an option.
If you come into the money, I'd recommend both apps, tbh. They're both great. Personally, I just prefer 3DCoat these days. The upgrade cost, policy is better and the app gets updated more often - something that will probably remain the case now that ZBrush is a Maxon product. The flow, for me, from Maya/Blender to 3DCoat just feels more organic. I only wish that the data interchange plugin were as stable, useful as ZBrush's GoZ.
Just as an added note, if the idea of subscribing to ZBrush is an issue for you, the do still sell perpetual licenses and will (probably) continue to do so for the immediate future. It'll cost more than 3DCoat, but perpetual is still perpetual. No further fees unless you want to upgrade to the next paid version.
Another option? If you want to get your feet wet with ZBrush, but don't want to pay, just download the $0 (100% free) ZBrush Core Mini. The app itself has fewer features than either ZBrush or ZBrush Core and has a stricter poly limit. However, using ZBrush Core Mini will at least allow you to learn the basics of the app and how ZBrush works. So, should you eventually decide to move to the full version then you'll be able to hit the ground running since you already know how to navigate the app and its quirks.
As far as upgrade costs go, 3DCoat is by far the cheaper option. Granted, we don't know what Maxon will ask current users to pay to move from ZBrush v2022 to v2023. However, there's no way that it'll match 3DCoat's low upgrade cost, which will remain fixed at about $45 or so. A massive bargain to be sure.
Last thing. If you have work in a situation with a spotty (or no) internet connection then 3DCoat is most certainly your friend. Much like Maya, with ZBrush, you have to be online to contact the activation server after you install it. (Might be an offline way iirc, but online is the default.) 3DCoat allows you to do that, but it is NOT a requirement. In fact, Pilgway provides its users with a license file that allows you to self-activate. Unless you want 3DCoat to search for updates, it never has to be online at any point. You can literally work out of a cabin in the woods and never need an internet connection or have to contact Pilgway to help you (de)activate. Definitely convenient, especially right now since Pilgway is Ukraine based. (Shocking that they still reliably release updates atm.)
3D coat seems to have a similar awkward and non standard UI for sculpting but looks powerful
Seems like 3D coat is the only other PC software outside zbrush to have real 3D sculpting which is not just polygon pushing
3D coat is great if you want to create quick masks for texturing. The baseline wear masks you make are much better than in substance. It takes way higher skill to create a similarly good damage mask in painter but painter has definitely a higher cap.
Its good in unwrapping also.