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ZBRUSH - All new updates to require Maxon subscription

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  • DrunkShaman
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    DrunkShaman polycounter lvl 12

    There is an extremely steep learning curve involved when it comes to blender. Although it does seem to be providing everything for free that other tools provide if you subscribe to them. I am not disagreeing with you. I think this thread was about people who already invested into Zbrush and have mastered it. I am happy with my current version I am not really going to subscribe for this. There is also Zbrush core which is free.

  • kanga
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    kanga ngon master

    @DrunkShaman I guess there are a number of people who just use zBrush. I'm interested in getting a character up and running in a game engine, and all the stuff in between. I like using zB in the process, but its only one component. A 3D app gives me the opportunity to UV, texture, rig, animate and export to a real time engine. After 18 years of free zB upgrades I'm not about to complain. All I'm saying is the Maxon takeover isn't the end of the world and other sculpting alternatives have become available, which is just fine. I'm pretty sure I am not the only one with this opinion.

  • Joopson
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    Joopson Polycount Sponsor

    I feel like blender used to have a steep learning curve. I'm not convinced it still does! I've picked up enough of the basics quickly enough; didn't take any longer than learning the basics of Max. I think this is part of its old reputation, stubbornly holding on.

  • DrunkShaman
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    DrunkShaman polycounter lvl 12

    I was agreeing with you. I was just saying that this thread was for people who already invested in zbrush and mastered it, probably they currently use it in their workflows which possibly makes them stuck, unless until they learn alternatives for sculpting or make peace with the last zbrush version. It is possible that, migrating to the alternative requires them a minimal learning curve. To me the steep learning curve comes when we want to do further more in blender based on our current settings. I'll give you one example, grease pencil in blender requires you to perform an extra step to setup a grid at times, which is something to get used to if your project is based on it. When I talk about "learning curve," I am not talking about fundamentals. I am talking about the small things or work arounds that irritates those who chose to migrate to blender, but are required to sit down and spend sometime learning it.

  • Saving_Face

    I am glad that I stumbled onto this discussion. . .

    I am still in shock over the poor treatment of Pixologic ZBrush 2022 perpetual license customers.

    I suspect that I am one of the last ZBrush personal perpetual license purchasers. I purchased my license for USD$895 on 2021.12.28 after reading the "no update costs in 16 years" assertion or whatever the exact language was. As a result of terrible timing, I purchased ZBrush 2022, but instead, initially received Zbrush 2021.7.1. After receiving 2022.0.3, I seem to recall that I only received one additional update. . .An incremental update to 2022.0.7.

    In effect, I paid USD$895 for ZBrush 2022 and one minor update. I suspect that Pixologic did not remove the "free updates" language even though it is reasonable to conclude they knew in advance that the company was being acquired.

    At a minimum, Maxon should provide ZBrush 2022 perpetual license holders 2-2.5 years of upgrades from their time of purchase to provide parity with Pixologic $179.95 six-month ZBrush subscription-based customers.

    As has been pointed out elsewhere in this discussion, there was virtually no appreciable feature enhancements to ZBrush 2022 between .03 and 0.07. As for me, I do not intend to spend another dime with Maxon. . .

    I am meeting with my attorney on a separate matter in the first of the year. I am going to raise the possibility of finding a legal remedy for my situation.

  • kanga
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    kanga ngon master

    Saving_Face: I am still in shock over the poor treatment of Pixologic ZBrush 2022 perpetual license customers.

    I've had zB since 2004. I think I paid something like 400 guilders for it and never regretted the purchase. The app is rock steady and the support is super, although only needed rarely. It's just a very fun app to use, and it runs super even on crappy systems and hardware. Your timing might be a bit unfortunate, but there are prolly enough fully developed features and tools to keep you busy for forever.

  • corymeyer
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    corymeyer polycounter lvl 5

    I pulled up the historical Terms & Conditions on Pixologic's Store from 2019:

    "Pixologic reserves the right to modify its pricing, policies, products, product specifications and services without notice at any time. Pixologic is not liable for errors that may be found on this site, including graphical or typographical.

    Pixologic reserves the right to alter its upgrade policy at any time and without notice."

    ttps://web.archive.org/web/20190120195819/https://store.pixologic.com/Terms-and-Conditions.html

    From what I remember, the upgrade policy had said that you would get one year of updates and anything beyond that was at their discretion. I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect your lawyer will advise you that since you did receive an update, however minor, they fulfilled their contractual obligation with you.

  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    "after reading the "no update costs in 16 years" assertion"

    Careful there - as far as I remember Pixologic never boasted about that. This is mostly the users mentioning it.

  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J godlike master sticky

    @DrunkShaman


    have you tried blender though? (regarding "steep learning curve")

    a lot of the internets common wisdom on stuff like this is people parroting something they read and never tested themselves. In some cases it is opposite from the truth.

    So if you haven't tried it, try it. Probably not nearly as difficult as you might expect. And these days you can ask questions to chat gpt which gives you better answers than google, and faster (well, mostly from bit of testing I did with it).

  • Saving_Face

    You're probably right. I get that that there is not much that can be done about the changes in terms. My issue is with leaving the "16 years" language up when, given the subsequent events that unfolded, Pixologic clearly knew that the ZBrush 2022 product had been sold and that the spirit of those words no longer held.

    The possible claim that I was thinking about relates to a shady practice called "tying." Specifically, the possibility that Maxon acquired Pixologic with the expressed intent of engaging in the anti-competitive practice of "tying," wherein, immediately after acquiring and integrating Pixologic ZBrush 2022, it conditioned the future value of a Pixologic ZBrush 2022 perpetual license on the purchase of a Maxon ZBrush 2022 perpetual license or a Maxon ZBrush 2022 subscription--this despite the fact that the two products are substantially the same. The net effect of this apparent act of tying is to force Pixologic ZBrush 2022 perpetual license holders to pay Maxon another USD$895 for a product license they already hold or lose the accrued value in their investment in their original license. A "tying" claim might certainly have merit given that the new and key features used to sell the Pixologic ZBrush 2022 product are nearly identical to the new and key features used to sell the Maxon ZBrush 2022 product.

    Still nothing might come of this, but I am thinking about the matter.

  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter

    "My issue is with leaving the "16 years" language up"

    Again, what is your source for that ? I personally don't recall Pixologic ever bringing it up as a selling point.

  • seb3d
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    seb3d polycounter lvl 10

    indeed it´s quite the opposite! when i was thinking about getting a license roughly 8-9 years ago there have been already rumors about the need to pay for updates. since i was not sure about getting zBrush for more than hobbyist use i just wrote support (didn´t want to buy and pay 2 weeks later for an update) and they told me something like: it´s true we never asked for money to get updates but it might change and we dont promise anything on that matter, can be in years, can be tomorrow...never!

    so i guess one would have a hard time to sue them for a change in regards to that policy. all you read @Saving_Face is made up by users not pixologic.

  • killnpc
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    killnpc interpolator

    At the beginning of the year 2023, I was able to reinstall ZBrush without issue. I have yet to sign for the new subscription model. As a user in mid-production I have not been impacted. I created a Maxon account, was forwarded to my legacy account where I was able to access my serial key and download the last supported legacy version of ZBrush 2022.

  • kanga
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    kanga ngon master

    @Ender12 , I have 2022.0.2 version on my laptop. I am a character artist and for what I use zB for my latest version is way more than I will ever totally use. I haven't bought the Maxon version so this version of zB is probably the last free update available.

    Pixologic have given us free updates for almost 20 years. I think cursing them out for that altruistic behavior is hardly appropriate. Also telling companies what they must charge for their products isn't free market practice particularly when there are free alternatives available.

  • Ruz
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    Ruz ngon master

    my current zbrush is fine for my needs, so have ignored the updates and at the same time am slowly getting better with blender sculpting

    Eventually I won't need zbrush , though i do like using it most of the time

  • Iwazaruk7
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    Iwazaruk7 triangle

    What about talks that zbrush have more functional and what not, hows blender sculpting nowadays?

  • knacki
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    knacki polycounter lvl 10

    Hey guys, have you ever tried Nomad Sculpt for Android & IOS?

    On new IPad Pro 2021&2022 it is super fast compared to Blender with really nice real-time rendering with some post processing features.

    While it is not a replacement for a full suite, it is astonishing what you can do. Since Maxon bought Pixologic, more and more guys are joining the Nomad community.

    It’s unique and powerful touch experience. On IPad Pro with 16 GB Ram it can deal with up to 30 mill polys. The features are growing almost every day.


    You can check it in your browser:


    l am not best sculptor ever, but all these results are pure Nomad Screenshots with PBR vertex paintings done on an old iPad Pro Gen2. A Mobile wonder which is super fun.



  • myclay
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    myclay polycounter lvl 9

    Nomad Sculpt might be cool if you travel a lot and have a tablet but otherwise I can´t fathom why there is no PC version.

    Other interesting programs to look at are;

    MagicaCSG;


    Clavicula


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