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Colour Mixing Help

DustyShinigami
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DustyShinigami polycounter lvl 2
Hi

I'm kinda struggling whilst practising at following the methods outlined in this Dota 2 guide on colour and value - https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/0688-7692-4D5A-1935. Specifically, under Color Mixing and Character Color Key Palettes. I'm trying to replicate the palette from the latter. This whole time, I've been using Photoshop's Mixer Brush Tool to try and get the additional colours after my secondary/tertiary ones, but with mixed results. :p How do others approach mixing colours like this?



For the dark grey/violet and yellow colours, it looks as though the artist went up/down a notch on the Hue scale. Just adjusting the Saturation and Brightness values a bit doesn't net me the same results, so has something more specific been done...?

Thanks

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  • gnoop
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    gnoop interpolator
    Firstly It's not a law you couldn't  deviate from a bit. 

    The main idea is using "complimentary" colors  . The problem is  what  computer  programs consider  true  "complimentary"   is not actually what traditional art  have been using  since ancient roman times   or described  by 17 century color theory authors.

      Artists have  been always  using   rather so called  RYB model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RYB_color_model    where blue  is not opposing the lemon  color but rather orange one  etc.

    So it's often  rendered as rgb model with the opposite color split into two with some shift :  split color scheme or  triad one.

    Usually you chose one vivid  color and two  complimentary  from those two schemes  made not so vivid .   And all 3 having a differnt tonal "value"  based on what you prefer.

    A simple solution  is to paint grayscale  by 3 gray values and then use 2  Gradient map adjustment layers to re-map  those 3 colors   and their  tonal  value  non-destructively.       Or 3 gradient maps  : 1:hue 2 : value 3 :saturation and blend them accordingly .  That way you could do quick variations.

    Gradient map is a main artist tool  basically .    I recall someone tried to make a script for photoshop that did variations from this randomly.
  • DustyShinigami
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    DustyShinigami polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks for the reply. One thing I did notice when using Adobe Color, was after adding the three colours from that image, and then I duplicated one or two of them for the additional colours, I could get the same additional colours (yellow and dark violet) from adjusting the G or B channels, which are on an Analogous scale. And then of course the saturation and brightness in HSB mode.

    I'm curious about your greyscale solution though; didn't think of that before. Although, I'm a bit confused with the process you describe. I've added the three colours from that image, masked one, and then used a Gradient adjustment layer. Can that be any colour/gradient...? Though, unless I've misunderstood, that adds a gradient to the grey colour instead of a solid colour/value.

    At the end, I take it you would need to change back from Greyscale to RGB...?
    Thanks
  • gnoop
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    gnoop interpolator
    Gradient map, not "fill".    And you don't need mask  usually.   I have one just to show  whats  beneath.    Same way you could remap  something grayscale  into 3  hue;luminosity;saturation   layers  and mix them accordingly    basically giving / re-map some gray value into some RGB  value.

    I recall I even saw a script that did that 3 color gradients using "split complimentary" from originally selected color .   Try to find it or ask on Adobe forum.


  • BagelHero
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    BagelHero greentooth
    Kind of.... deeply confused about your initial issue. I'm pretty sure the artist would have just picked the colors based on their usual interpretation of color theory, using the original color palette as a guide. I think you're over complicating it. If you need the hue to shift, then just shift the hue a little bit. The color mixing section is just explaining how colors mix (eg. 2 complimentary colors mixed together appear neutral), it's not so much a guide as a basic explanation of how to obtain secondary color within a scheme. You are not limited to this, though, especially not for highlight colors like that pop of yellow that's introduced.
  • DustyShinigami
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    DustyShinigami polycounter lvl 2
    @BageHero I probably am over-complicating it. I usually do. I get how to read the colour wheel and get the primary, secondary and tertiary colours, it's just the additional colours afterwards to expand the palette from the initial 3 to 5. From how I've been reading it, it strikes me that you mix those three colours together to get the extra two...? With the inclusion of adjusting the saturation and tint...?
  • DustyShinigami
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    DustyShinigami polycounter lvl 2
    gnoop said:
    Gradient map, not "fill".    And you don't need mask  usually.   I have one just to show  whats  beneath.    Same way you could remap  something grayscale  into 3  hue;luminosity;saturation   layers  and mix them accordingly    basically giving / re-map some gray value into some RGB  value.

    I recall I even saw a script that did that 3 color gradients using "split complimentary" from originally selected color .   Try to find it or ask on Adobe forum.



    Ohh, a Gradient Map. Sorry. Hmm... Still not getting this. >_< And for some reason, I'm not getting colours either when I select one from the Gradient Editor. Did you switch it back from Greyscale to RGB, after adding the colours, under Image > Mode...?


  • gnoop
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    gnoop interpolator
    yes, the document should be in rgb mode. And you don't have to paint in  perfectly gray tints.  Gradient map is just taking luminosity  value from below  and remapping  it  to  corresponding  gradient color .  

    it's a basic operation in any art.     When you have to turn certain colors into certain  roughness  values   , or give shadows a certain tint, or turn grayscale depth/height image into color one,   or turn your  summer time tree foliage textures into fall ones  etc.  

     it's just a convenient way  to do , test and switch between  different color schemes  you can have saved as gradient presets.   
  • DustyShinigami
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    DustyShinigami polycounter lvl 2
    Sorry, I feel really stupid, but I'm just not getting this at all. :( Whether it's because I'm really tired, overlooking something, misunderstanding... I'm just not processing it at all. :'( I'm also confused as to whether a document needs to be set to Greyscale first, and then - when all the colours and values are sorted - it gets set back to RGB...? If it stays at RGB right from the start, how do you paint in Greyscale...? Or am I only picking greys first from the left side of the Color Picker...?

    I'm trying the Gradient Map method with that Dota 2 screenshot above. So I'm starting off with the three main colours and trying to change their saturation/tint, followed by adding the two additional colours. But as I say - I'm still not getting it. >_<
  • gnoop
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    gnoop interpolator
    You don't  have to do or paint actual grayscale  image.   Sorry I  used  the word "grayscale" meaning actually that you can paint in a few shades of gray initially ( in RGB document).    
    Or not in shades of gray at all.    Gradient map works  over color  layers too  .  It's just a way  to apply color schemes on anything .       Try to apply gradient map  with some random  3 colors gradient over a photo. 
     So you can paint whatever  you like really.

    it's just  using shades of gray  initially could help you to separate  the tasks  and  make a decision on one aspect at a time.      Scroll down your own  link  up to ​"VALUE PATTERNING"    it's basically what I meant .     You not sure what color scheme to use yet but  you already make  a nice looking thing  in a sort of  b&w   style.        An art teacher   explained  me that approach way before  computer graphic surfaced. 

    So you make a half of decision and now with gradient map you can try a few color styles   turning your initially  b&w design into  full color solution
    It's  a same reason why people painted  grizaile  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grisaille    first  and then added  some actual vivid colors over.   Well,  with another reason to save on  expensive pigments too.      

    But all this is not a dogma  you have to follow.  if you have an instant vision of your  artisitc  color  solution  you can bypass all this.    It's just usually  those solutions are kind of slowly crystalizing in your head  and starting from shades of gray, or brown  or whatever is  a very  deep trenched in art history.







  • DustyShinigami
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    DustyShinigami polycounter lvl 2
    Ohhhh, I see what you mean now. D'oh. But yes, you're right - Value Patterning in that link is covered first before the topic of colour. I can't believe I never saw that until now. >_< I've always been doing it back-to-front - colour first and THEN seeing what the value is. Makes sense to set up the value first where you need it. Thanks for having the patience and taking the time trying to explain it to me. :)
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