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Getting an embossed effect with intricate designs on hard surfaces?

I am designing some custom calligraphy in Illustrator, which needs to be embossed on the cap and glass of a bottle in Max. I want it to be a part of the model, which is why I don't want to use a bump map.

So I export the design as a spline, weld some rogue lines and increase the interpolation. However, I can't get the emboss effect quite right since I can't select the edges and then chamfer or bevel them (since the interpolation adds too many segments, and it's not working).

I tried to increase the subdivision and then smooth the result, which produced a less than okay result. Any help is appreciated as I am a newbie. This is an example of what I am trying to achieve:


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  • Eric Chadwick
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    Bump.mapping is still the way to go for intricate details like this.

    Side benefit, you can use the same map to mask other material properties like metalness.
  • lastsky
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    Thanks for the reply. Problem is, I need to have it as part of the model as it will be manufactured at one point. I'm currently trying to make it work with the bevel tool. Hopefully it works out once I get to the complex calligraphy part.

    How do you think the artist did the above reference photo models? The white textureless models show that the embossing is part of the model as far as I can see.
  • Eric Chadwick
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    Oh, so they're getting 3d printed?

    Check the resolution of the printer, see how small a detail can be reproduced before you put too much effort into things that won't be seen.

    If the details must be in geometry, then Zbrush or another sculpting app is the way to go, using the design as an alpha.
  • lastsky
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    Not 3d printed, it will be manufactured as a perfume bottle (I'm asking about the metal cap). I tried doing it in Zbrush, but when I used the DynaMesh option to increase the subdivisions before applying the alpha embossing, it yielded a similar result to the displacement map in Max. I'm a newbie so outside of checking everything on YouTube, I have no idea what to do. Right now I'm trying to do it with the Bevel option in Max using the Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3 options to control the curvature of the "emboss".
  • Eric Chadwick
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    How exactly is your virtual 3d model going to be converted into a physical product?

    Usually embossed labels are made using lithography or similar printing techniques, which use 2d vector art, not 3d triangles.

    3ds Max is primarily a visualization tool, making pretty images that convey the style. But aren't used to make physical product.

    Anyhow, Zbrush is up to the task, look into subdivision and projection methods.
  • Thanez
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    Thanez interpolator
    If you want to go the displacement route, you could do some height map generation in photoshop using color ramps in layer effects.
    See this: https://graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/36343/how-to-create-a-realistic-bevel-effect-on-text-in-photoshop
    With different settings you could end up with something like this stupid golden text effect...

    ...but instead of fake ugly reflections you go from X height to 1 height. Play with the ramp settings.
    I used to do that when I wanted knurling on my baked normals, or when I was too lazy to make a pattern follow a compound curve, like on this revolver grip.

    Granted, here I baked the heightmap from a tileable texture i modeled, but the same could be done in photoshop:

    ----

    Nowadays I'm way into modeling every single detail into the model. It's not for a production workflow though. It's slow, and if you don't love it it's tedious af, but if you want total control of every curve and crave a perfect result, there is no better way of doing it. 
    Here's a chamber for an OZ9 I'm working on to relax before bedtime, as an example of the amount of work that goes into doing it this way. 




    It looks pretty complex but it's actually fairly simple:
    1. Model out every cutout as if I'm planning a CNC operation. For those rounded squares, I just make a box, chamfer it's edges, then move it as far into my model as I want. 
    2. Boolean subtract
    3. Clean up some stray verts, and insert the faces of the flats inside the cut and the surrounding faces to generate supporting geometry
    4. ????
    5. Profit.

     
  • SnowInChina
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    SnowInChina interpolator
    any design on flat surfaces is pretty easy, you can model your extrusions and as long as you have a loop of faces around them, they will smooth right in almost any case (well, at least if you know how to model subd)
    making these on curved surfaces is where it gets tricky

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