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WIP female anatomy

Hey all, 

My first post here, but a huge 3D modeling lover looking for feedback on my model and her face. I understand the body needs more fat on it, I was looking for the bone markings and such. And I had to detach the head to redo it with less topology. I am working on the lips again as I know they are off a bit. But would love some feedback to make sure I am doing this right.

Thanks all and good luck modeling!


Replies

  • JohannesAg
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    JohannesAg greentooth
    what references are you using for this? I´d highly recommend grabbing a scan from 3dscanstore and use that as reference with the split screen feature in zbrush.
  • Curiouslittlecritter
    @JohannesAg
    Thank you! I will check that out. Below are just some of the references I am using. So does my model look off or what?
  • Rozwell_Ramirez
    Great start! 
    I think you're working with to much geometry as it stands, something looks off in multiple parts of your body geometry. 
    it would be best to start with a more simple form to rough out the body shape and go from there. 
    also in your references you have a lot of contrasting images, this will make it hard to match your sculpt to any one reference image as they are all different face shapes. try eliminating the ones you dont need to get the initial shape, and bring them back once you are later refining areas like the eyes mouth ect. 
  • birb
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    birb interpolator
    You've collected some nice references there, now you need to follow them. Not just copy, but figure out what you'll take from each ref. Example: Asaro's planes of the head should be used as a framework for figuring out facial planes, not for the proportions.

    It's not that those proportions aren't possible, but they are highly characteristic of this head in particular and you need real-life references matching it to guide you in implementing them because it's different from most "standard facial proportions" charts you see out there, meaning you won't be able to go about it instinctively. Plus I feel you got so caught up in copying the proportions that you forgot to work on the planes, and you should avoid moving on to features before nailing down structure and volumes.
  • Curiouslittlecritter
    birb said:
    You've collected some nice references there, now you need to follow them. Not just copy, but figure out what you'll take from each ref. Example: Asaro's planes of the head should be used as a framework for figuring out facial planes, not for the proportions.

    It's not that those proportions aren't possible, but they are highly characteristic of this head in particular and you need real-life references matching it to guide you in implementing them because it's different from most "standard facial proportions" charts you see out there, meaning you won't be able to go about it instinctively. Plus I feel you got so caught up in copying the proportions that you forgot to work on the planes, and you should avoid moving on to features before nailing down structure and volumes.
    Thank you for the feedback! I have been working on the planes more. What do you think of this now? I got a 3d scanned face and really focused on all the angles, but I have SO much to learn!



  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 9
    Looks a really good start!
    The head/face anatomy looks on point.
    The only thing I can say at this stage is the ears look a bit big, but this could be a style choice.

    Nice work :)
  • Curiouslittlecritter
    vavavoom said:
    Looks a really good start!
    The head/face anatomy looks on point.
    The only thing I can say at this stage is the ears look a bit big, but this could be a style choice.

    Nice work :)
    Thank you so much! Hmmm... I could see that. I will try making them smaller and see how they feel. 
  • birb
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    birb interpolator
    Looking much better! I've got a paintover if you don't mind but first I'd like to address a technical detail: How do you feel about dynamic topology?

    You've got an issue here which are quads breaking on smaller details and they'll give you hell to work around, forcing you to go unnecessarily high in resolution to be able to finish eyelids and nose with the end result of a mesh that's both easier to mess up and substantially heavier. Using dynamic topology lets you increase resolution only where you need it, then remesh a duplicate of the result and reproject details, but it can be a bit hard to deal with adaptable topology at first when coming from a strict quads workflow.



    Now, regarding this face it'd be helpful to see what you're referencing to critique accurately. I made up something just I can point out areas that could see further work, the topology itself will likely not match the real thing. Three areas stand out for me at the moment:

    1. Mouth
    The mouth doesn't look neutral. Maybe the ref also has a bit of monalisa smile to her but you'll likely want to make something neutral before diving into expressions since you're studying. The angle of the corners of the upper lip and of the small cheek depression around the corners is what makes it look like a smile, correct it and you'll get a resting face. Then you need to deal with volumes surrounding the mouth.

    The upper lip ("moustache area") is missing a bit of volume and super subtle plane transitions, making it a bit curled inside. A big part of the problem is tied to the misplaced nasolabial volumes. You'll want to address the end edges of the lower lip as well as they're too wide without a matching volume to support them, just be careful and don't copy what you see in supporting references like anatomy diagrams because this area varies a lot depending on face structure and lip shape. Lastly, the surface of the lips themselves can see further work. That "female lips" ref you got is perfect for this, the only thing dumb about it is the "female" label as if men hadn't the same plane transitions, hah.

    2. Nasolabial volumes and furrow
    The point of insertion of the nasolabial furrow is off. It's a relatively common mistake which unfortunately it tends to affect the mouth and the entire frontal region of the cheeks. This furrow starts behind and above the wings of the nose, not at the sides of it. I've got a different paintover showing this in one of the frames, please take a look at this and your own references, which are good. Terminate the nose volumes properly (they're too deep into the cheeks, making it look tense) and you're all set.

    3. Eyes
    The eyelids are a bit shallow at some points and with shy outer edges (lateral canthus). The way they'll hug the eyeball is another thing that depends a lot on the face configuration, but they always hug it. It's easier to make something following the eyeball shape then blend it into the face than cutting them open and trying to shape them around the eyeball after the fact.



    That's it. There are a few more notes in that paintover because I have no self control. I hope this helps and keep up the good work, you're making good progress!
  • Curiouslittlecritter
    Thanks @birb That makes a lot of sense. I think I fixed most of what you suggested and really helps. I did more research on the eyes. Let me know if I misunderstood you at all. Thanks so much for the gif, that was SUPER helpful! 





  • Curiouslittlecritter
    Made some fixes, let me know if I need to change anything else! I am working on the topology now. The ears are off a bit.

  • birb
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    birb interpolator
    Nice progress! My advice is to hold off from topology or ears just yet because some things still need adjustment.

    First, painting the face helps but try to avoid strong makeup because it'll conceal or fake plane changes, making it harder for you to evaluate what needs to be done. Strong make up is helpful when doing a 1:1 likeness but you should do it in a way you can turn it off when not checking if it matches the reference.

    I think the eyeballs are too small, creating issues with your eyelids. It's evident at the lateral canthus of the left eye where there's this huge plane going against the curvature of the eyeball when you should have something mostly following it. Once adjusting the size work on wrapping the eyelids around it.



    The cheeks need a minor transition to the nose and still have a ghost of that smile by being too raised at the front. That area is tricky, try to keep in mind part of the cheek will grab at the side of the cheekbone (pink) while the rest is soft. This soft area (orange) always grab at the volume at the side of the lips (yellow), creating all sort of curves in the middle.



    The exact curve shape depends on the structure of the face, age, fullness, firmness, but there's always at least a minor plane variation here suggesting the contrast between something hard (the shallow areas over bone) vs something softer.



    Same age range, tone and fullness variation:



    Finally, the cupid's bow seems off. I've got an One Weird Trick for this one which I'm not sure will help or further confuse you right now, but the idea is to use an imprint of the nose as sanity check for the philtrum and cupid's bow. You'll notice it likely deviated too much from the nose shape those times it seems off. This is not a rule, just an empirical observation that can be useful to debug a facial issue.



    You get a slightly different shape depending on the nose depth and lips fullness, but it'll match some part of the nose.


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