Polish TKS Tankette (WIP) Feedback Requested

NURBS

I'm making a Polish TKS/TK-3 Tankette and texturing it in Substance Painter. I'm almost done with it and would like some feedback on what I have so far before I post it to my Artstation. What could I improve on or add to it?

Edit: I'm looking for feedback on the textures.

Here are some of the reference images I have collected for it:

And here is what I have:

teodar23

You could improve the rendering of it. The current batch of renders look flat and boring. Find a good hdri maybe a sunset and use that for renders. A small scene around the tank would be even better but not necessary.
Also it would be good to add a wireframe of your model and a uv layout.

NURBS

I probably should have been more specific in my post; I'm looking for feedback on the textures, not the model or rendering.

Temppe

Textures-wise, it looks too clean.

I notice you put in some scratches and rust, but it needs a lot more in my opinion. I would expect to see a lot of mud on the tracks and suspension, as well as mud sprayed onto the bottom of the hull. Maybe some larger scratches on the bottom too, to indicate that it's driven through rubble or rocky terrain.

I would also suggest a lot more grime/leaking oil around the engine cover (I assume that's what the vented panel is).

It's a bit hard to tell in the images, but it looks like the roughness of the paint is very uniform. I like to have patches of increased roughness and less saturated base colour to indicate paint that has worn, but not worn all the wasy through to the steel underneath. I'd use this trick around the hatches and areas that the crew walk on to get inside the tank.

Those reference images you have are great for modeling, but they suck for texturing because they're all freshly painted restorations - it looks like you're going for a used vehicle, so find reference of any old tank in used condition, regardless if it's the same vehicle as you're making.

Anyway, these are my first thoughts. Good work so far.

NURBS

Ok, good suggestions. After looking at pictures of tanks from War Thunder it does seem like I need to add more wear & tear and dirt to it. Is there anything else? How's the overall feel of it? Does it seem like something that could actually be seen in a game like War Thunder?

NURBS

Here are some updates. I added dirt, varied the grunge/roughness and created more wear & tear on the metal/paint:

teodar23

The edge wear is pretty uniform even in places that are not prone to wear. You should think about where the most scuffing and peeling would occur naturally taking into account the whole object, not each surface/edge individually. Also, paint doesnt just wear off like that, in some places it chips in others it fades away. Theres primer under the layer of paint or an older paintjob. Theres dirt and grime buildup between the paint and the bare metal. And so on.

DavidCruz

Layer that dirt on there thiccc try that, i hardly see any dirt, i can see some but its too little to be noticeble. 
This should help
the color scheme you picked should have matched the reference images, because a light dusting can be seen much better on the dark paint.  The link i posted is for dirt / damage choices you can add to your model.

I an not a vehicular artist so take it witht he smallest grain of sand.  Otherwise i really like this little thing as an art piece, irl ... seems all we make are destructive evil things when looking around.

NURBS

I'm not sure where paint scuffs and metal wears naturally, could you be a little more descriptive about that, teodar23?

sacboi

Guys at Wargaming -  WoT seem too know their stuff, when applying plausible grunge wear-'n- tear. Also imo adding at least a standard HDRI would be helpful during revisions.

teodar23

As a general rule, convex edges get wear and concave ones get dirt accumulation. Oxidation is a bit different in the sense that it could occur almost anywhere but lets focus on wear and dirt for now.
Lets take this area as an example:

The edges in the red boxes are neither convex or concave in the context of the whole object. The whole area of the vent is somewhat protected by other near objects so how would wear occur on those edges? Are the parts movable or fixed? I'm guessing fixed and with very little chance of wear. Dirt on the other hand is very likely to build up between plates and in places that are kinda occluded (concave). So you could make use of a object space ambient occlusion mask to drive the edgewear and the dirt but in an inverted way (i.e. white ao means possible edge wear and black ao means possible dirt accumulation).
Of course you need to play around with some values and the way ao contributes to the material (blending mode).
Also, keep looking at refs - not just tanks but really any painted metal object that sees heavy usage in hard conditions.
Also also, use a better lighting system - current one is pretty flat and its not very flattering for the material.

NURBS

Are there any resources you know of that go into greater detail of how wear & tear works on metals?

teodar23

Only way that i know is to go to an engineering college. There should be materials online for some disciplines like aircraft engineering or some stuff but i dont know how useful they are. Not to mention a bit of a time waste because you would read a bunch of stuff that doesnt interest you.
Your best bet is to study actual physical objects and if you have the chance to study a used, worn and left to rot object (like a tank) and a "as new" version of the same object and compare the two. That would be ideal because it will give you a clue to how paint ages and gets damaged, where rust pops up the most, etc.

NURBS

Here are some updated shots. I changed the color of the paint a little bit and removed/varied the wear around edges. I also messed around with some of the environmental maps in substance painter.

Zi0

Looking way better! I think the machine gun barrels has too many scratches.

sacboi

Nice job, your updated variable wear pass seems more subtle on areas that in my opinion are logical, in terms of both day too day operational requirements and terrain conditions.

ZIO raised a good point, from my firsthand experience usually secondary armament will also show signs of pitting, scouring and 'bluing' all caused by heat rather than just an excessively scratched machined suface plus lubricants definitely leave their mark on these types of vehicles.       

NURBS said:

Are there any resources you know of that go into greater detail of how wear & tear works on metals?

There are other sources not readily thought of but I think still valid in order to physically scrutinise, the differing levels of weathering upon metalic surfaces, painted or not. For instance heavy construction plant, historic steam machinery, military vehicle museums and/or private memorabilia collectors, even junk metal yards, a personal favorite.     

NURBS

Could you be a little more specific on those subtle area you mentioned, sacboi?

sacboi

NURBS said:

Could you be a little more specific on those subtle area you mentioned, sacboi?

Essentially what I meant, taking note of those painted regions of the hull I'd indicated. Generally will 'weather' slightly less in the field, simply because they're not prone to routine servicing activity, other than invariably subject to environmental effects. Additionally even though from my perspective your texturing revisions are fine as is however an extra 'story telling' element I think worth bearing in mind for future reference are oil/grease/fuel alongside mud/dirt smudges, in affect evidence left by it's crew which will definitely add that *wow* factor I've seen intuitively crafted elsewhere.

       

NURBS

Oh, I see what you mean now. That makes sense, especially your talk on blueing around the gun barrel.

In the meantime, I've taken the model and textures into Unreal to try to learn some lighting and render them in an engine. Here is what I got so far; my goal is to get a render inside UE4 as close to my renders from Substance Painter.

malcolm

Wow looking great.