What is your Pipeline? Can you share what you think the strengths or bottlenecks are?
polycounter lvl 2
I'm trying to develop a pipeline I feel is very efficient, but ever choice I make has strengths and draw backs. My pipeline isn't professionally used or implemented it is just an out line for what makes sense to me. My personal sense is that the quicker I can go from box modeling to engine, the more iterations I'll do per asset and the better it'll look. So like to work with as many bridge programs as possible. I think that importing/export models and textures and recreating materials between programs is counterproductive.
I've been focusing on environment design, so my pipeline is tailored to that. The other thing to note is that if you want your levels to look great, just treat every asset as a hero asset, but it'll take a really long time to complete. I'm trying to as much as possible hide my impatience by using bsp and world aligned textures with just enough props that the repetition isn't noticable. Here is an overview of my pipeline so far:
3DS Max:
I still use 3ds for modeling, ( I have a feeling this should change eventually, if I were restarting from scratch I would focus on blender). So I'm using 3ds for the overall level organization. This is where I'm doing my level grey boxing mostly. I prefer doing blockouts in Max because I can quickly create new geometry without having to open up modeling program. Modeling with other assets visible is good for getting the sense of scale right.
Zbrush:
I like the goz plugin. It's very quick to transfer models between Max and Zbrush. I'm only using zbrush for highpoly on things that need to be baked later.
Goz:
It's free and you need this. Trying to work with an import/export fbx process is wasting your time.
Vray:
I haven't experimented with Vray yet. I'm hoping between vray and datasmith, that the render I get out of vray will be pretty similar to what shows in Unreal.
DataSmith:
The DataSmith plugin works really well. I like it so far. It's good to have exact geometry matches between the .max file and the unreal level. Exporting/Importing is very fast and handles multiple meshes all at once.
Megascans:
The UX is nice for megascans. Having come across it and Substance Painter at the same time, Megascans is much more approachable. However it doesn't do as much as Painter. But it is a very high quality, very well organized texture library. (I only use the texturing options, the other stuff seems superflous)
Marmoset ToolBag:
I like this better for baking than Painter or Max or Xnormal. The baking process seems pretty painless and I don't have to blow up the models for AO.
Substance Painter:
This is really the only good option for texturing baked models. I also use it for making repeating alphas. I'm not a fan of the shelf management, I feel like there is too much bloat in the out-of-box textures and assets. There are a few very handy plugins that automatically generates Materials between Substance and Max. I'm using the one from Xolotl Studio. (let me know if you have tried other ones, and how they compare)
Unreal:
I use unreal. Unity seems fine, you'd have to develop a different pipeline though.
Overall Cons:
-Max viewports suck. they by default don't give a good impression of what the scene will look like in all other programs.
-the lighting in Max is inconsitent, using the recommend settings always ends up with viewports that are either blown out or too dark.
-There was a while where the DataSmith plugin wasn't updated to the latest unreal release. So to the pipeline only worked with older unreal versions
-Megascans and Substance Painter aren't connected, making cohesive textures between them isn't fun.
-using marmoset just for baking might be underwhelming, maybe getting better at baking in Substance could cut out a whole step
-relying on Megascans for textures can cause a very same-same look between your peices and other people using the same texture library
-Goz causes scaling issues in Zbrush. They can be worked around, but it'd be nice to be not have to worry about it
-it'd be nice if there was Zbrush/Substance bridge, to manage highpoly/lowpoly right from zbrush. Maybe there is?
I would love to hear from you about what you use for your pipeline. If there are any programs that you found that made you wonder how you lived without them? Also any gripes about pipelines, things that aren't compatible, things that need to be improved? I'm interested in everyone's opinions, but particularly professionals.
I've been focusing on environment design, so my pipeline is tailored to that. The other thing to note is that if you want your levels to look great, just treat every asset as a hero asset, but it'll take a really long time to complete. I'm trying to as much as possible hide my impatience by using bsp and world aligned textures with just enough props that the repetition isn't noticable. Here is an overview of my pipeline so far:
3DS Max:
I still use 3ds for modeling, ( I have a feeling this should change eventually, if I were restarting from scratch I would focus on blender). So I'm using 3ds for the overall level organization. This is where I'm doing my level grey boxing mostly. I prefer doing blockouts in Max because I can quickly create new geometry without having to open up modeling program. Modeling with other assets visible is good for getting the sense of scale right.
Zbrush:
I like the goz plugin. It's very quick to transfer models between Max and Zbrush. I'm only using zbrush for highpoly on things that need to be baked later.
Goz:
It's free and you need this. Trying to work with an import/export fbx process is wasting your time.
Vray:
I haven't experimented with Vray yet. I'm hoping between vray and datasmith, that the render I get out of vray will be pretty similar to what shows in Unreal.
DataSmith:
The DataSmith plugin works really well. I like it so far. It's good to have exact geometry matches between the .max file and the unreal level. Exporting/Importing is very fast and handles multiple meshes all at once.
Megascans:
The UX is nice for megascans. Having come across it and Substance Painter at the same time, Megascans is much more approachable. However it doesn't do as much as Painter. But it is a very high quality, very well organized texture library. (I only use the texturing options, the other stuff seems superflous)
Marmoset ToolBag:
I like this better for baking than Painter or Max or Xnormal. The baking process seems pretty painless and I don't have to blow up the models for AO.
Substance Painter:
This is really the only good option for texturing baked models. I also use it for making repeating alphas. I'm not a fan of the shelf management, I feel like there is too much bloat in the out-of-box textures and assets. There are a few very handy plugins that automatically generates Materials between Substance and Max. I'm using the one from Xolotl Studio. (let me know if you have tried other ones, and how they compare)
Unreal:
I use unreal. Unity seems fine, you'd have to develop a different pipeline though.
Overall Cons:
-Max viewports suck. they by default don't give a good impression of what the scene will look like in all other programs.
-the lighting in Max is inconsitent, using the recommend settings always ends up with viewports that are either blown out or too dark.
-There was a while where the DataSmith plugin wasn't updated to the latest unreal release. So to the pipeline only worked with older unreal versions
-Megascans and Substance Painter aren't connected, making cohesive textures between them isn't fun.
-using marmoset just for baking might be underwhelming, maybe getting better at baking in Substance could cut out a whole step
-relying on Megascans for textures can cause a very same-same look between your peices and other people using the same texture library
-Goz causes scaling issues in Zbrush. They can be worked around, but it'd be nice to be not have to worry about it
-it'd be nice if there was Zbrush/Substance bridge, to manage highpoly/lowpoly right from zbrush. Maybe there is?
I would love to hear from you about what you use for your pipeline. If there are any programs that you found that made you wonder how you lived without them? Also any gripes about pipelines, things that aren't compatible, things that need to be improved? I'm interested in everyone's opinions, but particularly professionals.
Replies
Textures in Subtance, and materials in Unreal Material Editor.
I don't think I could lose datasmith from the pipeline, don't use it for passing material, but it is amazing for keeping your level layoutr and your modeling software layout exactly synced.
I only bake in substance designer or painter. In my experience nobody notices the very slight quality increase from baking in separate tools.
My workflow changes depending on the asset but below is what I do for mechanical objects. I've put percentages of total time in brackets:
- Model sub-div surfaces in maya (70%)
- Detail in zbrush (5%)
- Model lowpoly in maya from hipoly (10%)
- Bake and texture in substance painter (15%)
The zbrush step might be a bit unecessary but it's something I've gotten used to as I work on a laptop at home and it can't handle high polygon models in maya.