RTX, dlss2 and Ampere right now

Obscura

Just watched through this. As an early adopter of rtx and an owner of 2080ti this sounds like a great leap and we finally arrived to a state at where this all becomes actually relevant. Some people may feel hurt because now their fancy cards suddenly becomes crap, but I guess we can sell them. Looking forward to see how all of this actually turns out. I'd also like to see your opinions. Personally, I'm happy to see these improvements and I can tell you from experience, they are very necessary. I'm also glad to see that the prices didn't go much beyond the current ones. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E98hC9e__Xs

Obscura

Theres also this background image from Morgan McGuire (Casual effects) if you want to use it for your home office calls, lol:
https://twitter.com/CasualEffects/status/1300892213984006144

ZacD

Kinda disappointed with the amount of vram, but I'm getting a  RTX 3080. Great performance per dollar this time around.

Obscura

Yeah the amount of vram is not the best in all of them except the 90. I've been playing some more recent games on ultra settings recently and some of them get to nearly 8 gb of vram usage on 2k res ( Horizon gets there very often). That being said, I'm happy with the amount of memory in the 90 one, and the performance boost is great even on their lowest card. They kinda make the 2080tis look like that clown meme.

As a side note, when we realistically think about this ram question, it turns out that there is no improvement there in the same tiers since 4 years...I mean there is but its so little, I don't see it as an improvement. I mean both the 1080ti and the 2080ti had 11 gb, while the non ti variants had 8. And the 3090 is not the next gen equivalent of the tis of these. Its more like a cheaper replacement of the titans.

PolyHertz

performance improvements look good, prices are fine, but yea the vram situation is unfortunate.
Curious to see how AMD's RDNA2 cards compare.

oglu

The problem with the AMD is im bound to CUDA. 

Prime8

I wasn't excited before the release, but now I am. Looks like a great update for my 1080ti.
The amount of vram is disappointing indeed. 
Fortunately I'm in no hurry, therefore I will wait and see what AMD has to offer and how the custom cards will perform.
Maybe cards with more vram will be introduced as well.

off topic: that kitchen (Jensen's home?) is tremendously ugly, I wonder why they chose it for the presentation, had some kind comedy feeling.

Obscura

You know what else feels like a comedy? Jensen keeps taking out the big guy cards from the oven. He did that earlier this year with that gigantic scientist card, and did it again in this presentation with the 3090.

Anyways, I would not have much hopes for the amd cards. I saw a direct comparison recently, and it was comparing high end nvidia and amd cards in various real life applications, including offline gpu rendering, and real time rendering. All the amd cards fell waaay behind the performance of the nvidia ones, and those weren't even the 30s cards. They also don't have raytracing support for games, nor the equivalent of dlss - which turns out to be a huge game changer.

oglu

Obscura are you sure you are talking about the AMD RDNA2 cards?
Those will have raytracing and are ment to be as fast as the 30xx from nvidia.

Obscura

No I was talking about the current ones. Don't know about what they will come up with. We will see but I have some doubts about their speed as the current ones gets nowhere close to the high end of the 20 series and workstation cards. It would be also a surprise if their raytracing implementation would "just work" with rtx titles. And if it wouldn't, it would mean that titles would have to implement both solutions?  Maybe I'm a little too pessimist but there are just too many question marks about this, and their current speed is not convincing either.

ZacD

Inside Unreal: DLSS and RTXGI with NVIDIA Thursday, September 3 @ 2:00PM ET

https://forums.unrealengine.com/unreal-engine/events/1806086-inside-unreal-dlss-and-rtxgi-with-nvidia#post1807468

Hopefully the DLSS implementation in UE4 is pretty easy and straightforward. The Nvidia gameworks stuff wasn't worth the effort in the past

Prime8

@Obscura I was talking about upcoming cards. Even though I most probably stick with NVidia, I would like to see AMD coming up with some competitive products.

EarthQuake

I was hoping to see 16GB in the 3080, or at least 12GB. Oh well, at least we get a consumer-ish card with 24GB at under $2000 in the 3090.

littleclaude

Great video - whoever made the infographics did a great job. The graphic visual representations of all the information and data was super clear, thumbs up

Udjani

What about the ''g6x can transfer twice as much data'' 28:00. Maybe it's not so bad.

Prime8

Udjani said:

What about the ''g6x can transfer twice as much data'' 28:00. Maybe it's not so bad.

A high transfer rate is good but If the vram is too small, the transfer rate wont help.
I'm curious what RTX IO will be used for in the future, maybe it will help with memory size limits.

littleclaude

Linus Tech Tips, good review of the NVIDIA Launch Event video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucutmH2KvSQ

Prime8

Realized that I probably have to upgrade my CPU, MB and RAM as well, if I want to get a RTX30xx.
AMD's new Zen 3 should be available by end of the year as well. I get the feeling that this will be an expansive but exciting Christmas season.
I'm not eager to reinstall my Windows 10 though.

oglu

And most importantly a new SSD with 7000 MB/s!

Obscura

That will be an expensive build.

Obscura

Realistically, we are unable to sell those 2080tis for more than 400 $. I slowly came to this conclusion. Although as far as I can see, store prices have not changed so far. I guess it will happen when the new gen actually comes out.

Obscura

This whole situation is a little bit surreal.

Obscura

What will happen next time? In 1-2 years, your 1500 $ card will be totally obsolete again? Also how about the lineup that they havent announced? Like 70-80-90tis and such. I would say even if mr jensen said now its safe to upgrade, we still need to be careful with this. sorry for the kind of rant, but that is a lot of money for me even though I will most likely buy one of the high end ones after some saving.

Obscura

Oh... And how about those shit quadros Cause they barely exceed if on any level the 2080tis and they only have more ram, and their prices are hard to describe. If you bought any of those, then this is much worse.

ZacD

That's how it goes for all enthusiast level hardware, anything top of the line is probably going to lose at least half it's value within 3 years. The 2080ti situation is a bit worse than normal, but everyone knew it was over priced from the start. Plus Nvidia had no competition to worry about. 

Still for companies or freelancers, the 2080ti might have paid for itself by being able to get better work done faster than anything else. 

thomasp

I think it's great to see the price/performance shifting down again, the 2xxx series was ridiculous given that anything below the absolute top end model was pretty uninteresting when coming from at least a mid-range previous generation card.

Now it appears you can hope for at least twice the performance with an upgrade in the three digit price range, again assuming you are on a mid-range 2xxx card or lower.

I dislike the ever increasing power draw though. Would love to see smaller, cooler, energy-conserving versions of the last generation  alongside the brute-force gamer cards. Electricity is pretty pricey where I live.

Prime8

@Obscura it's always like this when new generations of hardware are released. In this case a bit more extreme because of the rather unspectacular RTX20xx and the good performance of the RTX30xx.
The strategy / product placement for the Quadros has been the same ever since... Pay 300% extras for certified drivers 

@tomasP Maybe underclocking is an option for you? Would be nice to an overall decrease in power consumption for new generations though.

Obscura

The ratio is very different this time. I managed to sell my 1080 non ti  when the 20s came out for 2/3 the original price.  Now I can sell the 2080ti for 1/3 or possibly even less depending on the price of others used cards. But I'm slowly getting peace with the thought.

EarthQuake

Obscura said:

The ratio is very different this time. I managed to sell my 1080 non ti  when the 20s came out for 2/3 the original price.  Now I can sell the 2080ti for 1/3 or possibly even less depending on the price of others used cards. But I'm slowly getting peace with the thought.

It's not nearly as bad as 1/3rd. Check sold listings on eBay, in the last couple days 2080tis are selling for $650-1000, with the average in the $750 range or so. So about 62% of $1200 retail.

Now if you wait for 3XXX's etc to be readily available, yeah maybe closer to 1/2. But it will be a while before they're selling for 1/3 or less. Probably a couple years.

Obscura

Only the cheapest ones are around 1200 $ and the one I have is more like 1500$ - A model from evga. This probably varies between countries but I got mine from hungary, where I live. They cost a bit more in the retail around here, starting around 1300 and gets as high as 1800. The 650 you said is already less than half of the 1500. I also just checked out how the used ones goes on the hungarian market, and they are currently between 650 and 820, but most of them is closer to 700 or less. My model could be sold for around 750, which is exactly half of the original price. Not extremely horrible yet, but yeah I should get rid of it as soon as possible, before it gets worse. But unfortunately I don't have a temporary replacement laying around.

Prime8

Obscura said:

... Not extremely horrible yet, but yeah I should get rid of it as soon as possible, before it gets worse. But unfortunately I don't have a temporary replacement laying around.

I generally wouldn't sell my current card until the new one is setup an running. Unfortunately I received a broken card once and it took roughly 2 month to replace it, luckily I kept the old one.

AMD is going to introduce RDNA2 on October 28th, let's see what it brings to the table. I doubt though that it will impact Nvidia's pricing, I assume they already considered the AMD release for the current prices. 

There are already rumors about another mining boom and miners buying huge amounts of cards (RTX3080), which will cause a shortage and price increase. Hopefully just rumors.

thomasp

Here are some leaked/early benchmarks for the 3080:

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-synthetic-and-gaming-performance-leaked

Obscura

Thats not too impressive to be honest. Synthetics doesnt mean anything. Look at the game results. Kind of close to what you'd expect at any new release.

thomasp

Yup. If it translates like that to raw viewport speed then it's not going to be very noticeable. Could probably reach that with an overclocked 2080 Ti. So far looks like business as usual. If it turns out to be just that then they sure are very skilled at firing up the hype machine.

Prime8

Some of the first official benchmarks are not as bad as the leak, but not as good as in Nvidia's presentation either (no surprise).
Depending on the use case an upgrade from RTX2080Ti might be questionable, but If you have an GTX10xx or older, it's quite the impact, especially looking at Blender render times.
The only downside is the power consumption.

Justo

I'm thinking it might be time for me to updgrade and finally get my own desktop PC, and leave my trusty GTX1070 laptop for travelling. 

I'm seeing a lot of talk on how the 30-XX series are not that big a leap compared to 2080 Ti. How can I try and make an informed decision on which one to choose for my pc build? 

PolyHertz

The 2080 Ti is definitely worth considering right now if ok with buying used, as some people are selling theirs on ebay for under $500. Even if the 3070 is marginally faster, the 2080 Ti still has 3GB more vram which should make it overall the better card for artists.

I'm waiting to see what happens with the 3060 cards (hoping the power draw will be more reasonable then the rest of the lineup).

Prime8

@Justo I would wait a bit until the custom cards are available, read some reviews and decide based on your use case and wallet. I personally wouldn't buy used PC parts, but getting a "cheap" 2080Ti is an option too.

Justo

I think I would be too paranoid to buy it used, yeah, and thankfully money isn't a problem right now. Interesting to hear the 2080 Ti still has more vram and is better for us - I would mainly be interested in viewport speeds using heavy things in Substance Painter or UE4, and possibly rendering and baking with Cycles for that sweet Blender bevel shader...

It would be very nice to see some comparisons, but looking at YT right now all of these videos are made using videogames (flight simulator 2020 sure looks nice ha).

Prime8

Here are some benchmarks with applications as well, unfortunately in German, the graphs are clear though.
https://www.computerbase.de/2020-09/geforce-rtx-3080-test/4/

oglu

Here some more. Looks like the 3080 is twice as fast as the 2080 Super for Rendering.
I have to get one of those 3090.
https://techgage.com/article/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-rendering-performance/

thomasp

I went from 1070 to 2080 Ti and more or less doubled my viewport framerate. Horrendously expensive, obviously.

My other motive in picking it up earlier this year was that my main machine still runs on W7, is intended to stay that way - and I was pretty sure that this would be a total no go for any new series.

PolyHertz

@thomasp just fyi, Nvidia has confirmed that the 3000 series will work on Windows 7 (but not 8 or 8.1) in their community Q&A:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/rtx-30-series-community-qa/

oglu

The rumors are getting closer that we will get a 3080 with 20 GB.
Screengrab from a Galax/KFA2 presentation.

RN

And... it's gone. It's just gone. It sold out quick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HYJ3W-dwac

Prime8

Either the demand was unexpectedly high or they didn't produce a lot of cards... or both.
Hope no one here sold their 20xxs and waiting to catch a new one.
Even if you are lucky to find one right now, the prices are unreasonably high.
Would be nice if they are "normally" available at the end of the year at least.

Obscura

Didnt you hear? Bots bought the most of them and now they are trying to sell those for more expensive. There are also some issues with some of the non founders edition cards. They are crashing a lot due to some cheapo part that some 3rd party manufacturers used. 

Prime8

Obscura said:

Didnt you hear? Bots bought the most of them and now they are trying to sell those for more expensive. There are also some issues with some of the non founders edition cards. They are crashing a lot due to some cheapo part that some 3rd party manufacturers used. 

For sure I read that, Nvidia said as well that they manually checked and cancelled suspicious orders, of course I don't know how many that have been.
The crash issues seem to be fixed with the latest driver, though.
Anyway, I don't need a new card right now, I can wait.

Obscura

From what Ive heard, they could only "fix" it by lowering the clockspeed of these cards a little bit.

huffer

Just had the cheapest EVGA 3080 models drop on our local retailers, here in eastern Europe: 1250 USD!

thomasp

Well, I do recall the 1080 Ti was also advertised/launched at 699 or whatever it was. Even long after the Bitcoin craze the actual prices never went below 1000 Euros here. I tried for years to find a new one in the three digit range and finally gave up entirely on this thing.

Given that the new cards seem to have some issues I'd not spend that money right now, no matter the price but wait for revisions instead. Plus you'll probably want to wait for the nice third party models anyway.