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3ds Max & Mudbox Expert Workflow Question

Chrismartinartist
Chrismartinartist
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Chrismartinartist polycounter lvl 3
Hi, I'm hoping looking for someone to answer a workflow question with 3ds Max and Mudbox. Basically I want to create models in 3ds Max, and Sculpt and/or Paint them in Mudbox. My current workflows seem massively inefficient requiring so much model prep just to use Mudbox and I feel like I'm missing something really obvious. Let me explain the problems and how I'm working around it.

1. (RE: Sculpting) For any semi complicated object (which I've always been taught should be modeled as a single mesh all quads or tris) to sculpt on it in Mudbox you need even subdivision. If you don't have this you get some areas that react differently to the sculpt brush as they are less divided. You also need support loops to stop the subdivision reshaping the model. If the object is complicated trying to add all the necessary support loops and subdivisions is usually near impossible without breaking the model into pieces. This however throws up the further problem of potential bake errors especially in corners, and of getting Ambent Occlusion to work as intended.

So I've been using two options, either using Mudbox just for Trim sheets, which still requires complex and time consuming (precise) UV'ing afterwards. Or breaking the model into pieces, which if it is complicated (for examples has both interior and exterior walls that do not match in height or shape) will mean having to create an extra 'back' for the face I need so as to give it some depth when sculpting. I then add support loops with either Connect, Quad Chamfer with a 0 bias, and generally add lines until it's mostly even. However I still then need to get a low-poly version of each piece to project on to. This seems like not the best way of doing all this.

2. (RE: Painting) Painting on the live 3d model should be a blessing, but trying to do anything precise seems near impossible in Mudbox unless you separate everything into pieces and isolate them one by one to paint, which again makes Ambient Occlusion less reliable and adds considerable time putting it back together again afterwards. Selecting specific faces is hard to do due to the way it is displayed in Mudbox (a hazey yellow fall off), but with separate objects you can double click and isolate, though it's a lot of back and forth in a large project. Sometimes areas will seem not to paint unless I pass a certain point of a face but if that point puts the brush over another edge it gets messy.

Currently I will separate the pieces and isolate one by one, it's awkward to navigate like this as the pivot point seems to have a mind of it's own.

I feel like these two softwares should have near perfect synergy being from the same company. So feel like I'm missing something that would make these processes a lot easier.

Thanks for your time,
Chris
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  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    Im the biggest MUDBOX FANBOY.

    But its time to move to Zbrush and Substance Painter. Is there a special reason you have to use Mudbox?
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  • thomasp
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    Re: painting accuracy - I find Mudbox pretty good for that. Check the preferences under 'Paint' for the brush sample area and set it to (near) zero, that should take care of the issue that paint appears blotchy in some areas. Combined with the ability to have brush strokes snap to curves and the use of stencils and steady strokes it does the job well in my experience.

    Btw. I'd always send a specially prepared model to the paint app, not simply the whole thing straight from the modeler. E.g. I'd remove everything that does not need to be painted, perhaps undistort/relax tricky corners, separate elements with overlapping UVs, etc.
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  • Chrismartinartist
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    Chrismartinartist polycounter lvl 3
    oglu said:
    Im the biggest MUDBOX FANBOY.

    But its time to move to Zbrush and Substance Painter. Is there a special reason you have to use Mudbox?
    Zbrush and Substance cost money I can't afford, 3ds max and mudbox I already have from a  course I did.
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  • Chrismartinartist
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    Chrismartinartist polycounter lvl 3
    thomasp said:
    Re: painting accuracy - I find Mudbox pretty good for that. Check the preferences under 'Paint' for the brush sample area and set it to (near) zero, that should take care of the issue that paint appears blotchy in some areas. Combined with the ability to have brush strokes snap to curves and the use of stencils and steady strokes it does the job well in my experience.

    Btw. I'd always send a specially prepared model to the paint app, not simply the whole thing straight from the modeler. E.g. I'd remove everything that does not need to be painted, perhaps undistort/relax tricky corners, separate elements with overlapping UVs, etc.
    Thanks, I didn't know about the brush sampling, I'll give that a look.

    It just often feels like a lot of work, in terms of back and forth, to achieve something fairly simple.
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  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    OK in this case here some Mudbox tricks.

    It does help a lot if you export selection sets from your DCC.
    Mudbox is able to read them.

    There is also an option in the Mudbox prefs to get the selection based onfaces and not verticies. Clean sharp edges no falloff.
    Prefernces --> Render --> Render Selected --> Face

    If you use UDIMs even if you dont need them in the end. Just move some UVs over to the second UDIM you can fast select them with shift+A.
    Or use the up arrow key to unload them.

    Use the export paint layer feature to send the textures to your DCC.
    File --> Export all Paint Layer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL_nABBTQoQ


    Use the shortcut shift+t to flatten the geo to uvs. Or use a plane with the same shader to paint.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PQ7TFGQgdM

    Use creases or hard edges in your DCC cause Mudbox is able to read them. No need for bevels.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9YYgAl0FMc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzW1g6psuXk

    Shortcut F does focus on the last paint stroke.


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  • Chrismartinartist
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    Chrismartinartist polycounter lvl 3
    oglu said:
    OK in this case here some Mudbox tricks.

    It does help a lot if you export selection sets from your DCC.
    Mudbox is able to read them.

    There is also an option in the Mudbox prefs to get the selection based onfaces and not verticies. Clean sharp edges no falloff.
    Prefernces --> Render --> Render Selected --> Face

    If you use UDIMs even if you dont need them in the end. Just move some UVs over to the second UDIM you can fast select them with shift+A.
    Or use the up arrow key to unload them.

    Use the export paint layer feature to send the textures to your DCC.
    File --> Export all Paint Layer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL_nABBTQoQ


    Use the shortcut shift+t to flatten the geo to uvs. Or use a plane with the same shader to paint.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PQ7TFGQgdM

    Use creases or hard edges in your DCC cause Mudbox is able to read them. No need for bevels.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9YYgAl0FMc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzW1g6psuXk

    Shortcut F does focus on the last paint stroke.


    This is great, thank you 
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