Looking for actual Critiques

yamazakiofthevoid

Hello. I'm looking for feedback, and hopefully I've finally come to the right place.
This is the cover I drew for my 1k-page book:


Now the first (and at times the only) question I tend to get is, "What is that unreadable graphic at the top of the image?"
That's the word "Duality" spelled as a death metal logo. The logo's intention is to let like-minded people know that "hey, this was written by a metalhead". And ideally to provide some amusement to people who actually get the reference, together with the leg cling. But turns out, many people are not metalheads and are not aware that this is a thing, and that graphic tends to provoke unreasonable amounts of puzzlement and disaffection in people. In which they completely disregard the fact that there is more to the cover.
Anyway, I made the logo smaller, so hopefully that helps appease whomever is unhappy with it.
Besides that, I've been told that the cover is "confusing" (mostly due to the logo) and "does not look polished".
I'm not looking to appeal to the mainstream audience, so if you don't get the references, please ignore them and focus on what could be improved about the art or the font arrangement, unless you have helpful suggestions regarding things like the logo.
I would love to hear why the cover doesn't look polished, and what could be improved about it, besides the freaking logo.

Apologies if this isn't where I should've brought my request after all.

tysiu

Not a metalhead, but can clearly connect the logo to metal bands the second I saw it (pointy, symmetrical, impossible to read). If it's for a webcomic, the cover is fine, but there are few things you can improve if you want.

I would either add detail to the mountains in the background or get rid of them completely, they are flat black and don't add anything to the story.
The sky could use some gradient at the bottom like here, it gives a feeling of an actual atmosphere rather than a screen with background.
 
This dust particles on top layer are really low quality, if you want some floaty stuff make it properly.
Please use some references for the heads in the body pile, they look so flat and distorted, it takes away all the attention from the main characters. Use a box as a guide for the head, or google some images of people lying on the ground.

You might need some more work on the blue flashes (maybe more glowy soft light, but I don't really know what they are, so it depends)
and lighting on the hands and body (you have some blue splotches here and there, but they don't look that good). Look for some references in comic books (like the captain marvel from above or this) and try to adjust it to your style.

Does the black character have a sword on the back? You might want to fix that, coz it does not look like a sword at all.

The last thing is a pet peeve of mine, so you can ignore it if it doesn't bother you. Your lines are very inconsistent. The cape on the redhead is thick on left and thin on right, the outlines of the hair, hands and fingers are once thick once thin, but it's kind of random (it doesn't represent weight or shading).

yamazakiofthevoid

@tysiu Thank you so much for your feedback!

The floaty particles are meant to be blurred as they're close to the "camera", but if that's not what it looks like, then I suppose I'm better off without them.
Hmm, some of the issues are going to be difficult to fix, as I don't have the skill to see why the heads look flat, or why the sword doesn't look sword-like. And that's considering I used plenty of references. But I'll have to figure something out.

tysiu said:

"The last thing is a pet peeve of mine, so you can ignore it if it doesn't bother you. Your lines are very inconsistent. The cape on the redhead is thick on left and thin on right, the outlines of the hair, hands and fingers are once thick once thin, but it's kind of random (it doesn't represent weight or shading)."

Ahh damn xD I was having issues with that too, but I'd figured it was probably not as noticeable as I thought.

Again, thanks for the pointers, I'll be sure to use them.

tysiu

The floaty particles are meant to be blurred as they're close to the "camera", but if that's not what it looks like, then I suppose I'm better off without them.

The ones closer to the camera are way bigger, have more colour variation and are more blurry, those further are smaller, sharper. They usually are placed in small groups (of 3, 4 or so) an have very distinctive flow to them.

Hmm, some of the issues are going to be difficult to fix, as I don't have the skill to see why the heads look flat, or why the sword doesn't look sword-like. And that's considering I used plenty of references. But I'll have to figure something out.

 It's never easy, just don't give up. Check other comic covers or movie posters for inspiration, observe and learn. Some things will come with time, as your brain will learn how to process those type of information.

I did a quick touch up in photoshop to show just some things I mentioned before, that I would personally do. It might give you some new ideas or visualise some things better. Like the sky gradient, how I would place the sword, and some floaters. The contrast between the background and the main characters is now much bigger, making them more readable. Don't worry too much about the lineart. You have really cool style and it works in what you have. I'm just really nitpicky with lines in general. 

yamazakiofthevoid

I did a quick touch up in photoshop to show just some things I mentioned before, that I would personally do. It might give you some new ideas or visualise some things better. Like the sky gradient, how I would place the sword, and some floaters. The contrast between the background and the main characters is now much bigger, making them more readable.

Oh, that's lovely, thank you!

Um, but while it does bring out the characters better, I feel like this kind of lighting takes from the unconventionality and the wickedness? Maybe my representation is completely off, but these are the kinds of things I looked to for inspiration:


And so I'm questioning what's a better way to make the characters stand out. Darker background and more lighting on the characters, or brighter background and darker colors on the characters? Well, this is the direction I'm taking right now:

Still rendering and trying out some things. But let me know if you think this set-up doesn't work at all. If you feel like it.
I did attempt to fix the faces, the sword, added more lighting and the mountains. The mountains kind of help bring out the title, I think. And since the "villain" of the story prefers green for his magic, I thought it made sense to make the floaters green (not sure something this unsophisticated is worth keeping, so I'm trying out different brushes).

Don't worry too much about the lineart. You have really cool style and it works in what you have. I'm just really nitpicky with lines in general. 

Thanks . The thing is, I'm similar in that... I often freak out about imperfections on my line art that nobody notices. So while it's true most people won't even see this cover up close, I should probably at least deal with the line art where I question its quality.

tysiu

Uuu the mountains look pretty good now. Maybe try giving them some kind of lineart to be more consistent with the rest of your style. That might make it better or not, so you'll have to see what you prefer in the end.

I think you went a bit overboard with the colour saturation. It's so vivid it takes all the attention. If you want to check if the cover is readable turn it black and white. For now it seems you have bright elements all over the place. You can make small thumbnails, all b&w, with different value options to choose from.

The floaters are better, but they look like fireflies now If the villain's colour is green, maybe turn the sky aura dark green, and make the blue flames the only blue element. If you're going for the dark/dangerous vibe focusing on one or two colours might be the key. Here's some cool example of that (but it's not really a comic cover material) www.artstation.com/artwork/QAQLx

The glow on the clothes looks like a dodge layer, going outside your lines. That's a no no.

There are two small things that are kinda confusing.The main chara's cape is see through at the bottom, is that intentional? And that top knot on the knight's head, is that his hair or a leftover after the previous sword?

Two Listen

Gonna pop in here for a minute, just rattle off some things.

First - to me, your main issue is consistency.  Ignoring the death metal logo/any font and just focusing on the rest of the image you've got - it doesn't read to me like a consistent, confident style.  You've got parts of it that scream web comic and parts of it that come off more defined and illustrated.  That's not meant to come off as me shitting on web comics, btw.  Just the words that came to mind.

To my eyes, the "best" and most consistent portion of the entire image is the bottom.  Bodies they're standing on - the lady in white especially seems more "polished" to me than anything else in the image.  Bold lines are reserved for her silhouette and notable edges, fine lines define the rest of her features and details and her shading is consistent, effective, and charming.  The bit of noise helps add some additional uniformity.  It clicks, with a lovely almost "less is more" kind of efficiency.  The pile of bodies almost looks like it was done by a different artist.

Move upwards and you've got what's meant to be a more primary focus (I assume, your two characters there) and they just...fall flat, in comparison.  Linework isn't as form-defining, some of it seems more there just because there hasn't been a wrinkle in a while so why not.  The lady in white is 90% white, yet her forms all have some nice shading and gradation to them.  Your main fella's outfit is flat in comparison, one color of gray - those teal accents completely flat (they got hit by some lights in your most recent update, but not a style I feel matches), just got some blueish glow/rimlighting which is done in a manner that ignores most of the shapes so boldly defined with large silhouette lines.  The blue flame (?) things emitting from his hands deviate drastically from the aesthetic, almost scribbly in comparison.  Perhaps an argument could be made that it matches the "death metal" thing but to me it looks like we got to that part and didn't really know how we were gonna pull that off.  Which is fine, totally happens, not even sure how I'd do it off the top of my head - but the point is to me all of these factors together give you something that doesn't click.

The recent addition of mountains being more defined I'm not sure I agree with, but I will agree that if you're going to go that route they should get some linework treatment.

My opinion - there are elements to this cover that seem a bit foreign to you, you seem most comfortable to me with lines.  I don't see that as a bad thing, but I think you need to come to a determination of style and pursue that.  And when you encounter something you're not sure how to render or define in that style - it may require some research, separate studies to pull off.

Could be that's not where you're at right now, maybe you're at a point where you've done a 1,000 page art book and in that case you've done more art than me in like the past decade and you want to make a cover and sit on that achievement, and I'm not going to be the one to tell you that's the wrong way to go.  Just figured I'd offer my thoughts on some things I thought you could improve, if refining this was your goal.

yamazakiofthevoid

I apologize I take so long to respond, but whenever I'm about to post, I find new things I'm unhappy with.
So, the background was actually originally green (well, before the purple). So I made it green again, didn't like that, decided I wanted more blue... Tried making the sky deep blue, it took all the attention away, so I desaturated it to this:

and tried to incorporate most of @tysiu 's suggestions. I also saw some cover art where the background was black, but there was some sort of highlight behind the characters in focus, so I tried to go for that. I also attempted to add some ice in the forefront but didn't like that, either. I've also seen some ways to make the title font metal-ey without making it unreadable, so I'm contemplating that... I still need someone to convincingly explain to me why the current one doesn't work (so far no one has really argumented their opinion). Because I like the current one -.-

There are two small things that are kinda confusing.The main chara's cape is see through at the bottom, is that intentional? And that top knot on the knight's head, is that his hair or a leftover after the previous sword?

The cape being see-through is intentional, those things are supposed to aid invisibility. Something wrong with it?
And that is totally not the leftover of the previous sword.

@"Two Listen"  said:

Gonna pop in here for a minute, just rattle off some things.

First - to me, your main issue is consistency.  Ignoring the death metal logo/any font and just focusing on the rest of the image you've got - it doesn't read to me like a consistent, confident style.  You've got parts of it that scream web comic and parts of it that come off more defined and illustrated.  That's not meant to come off as me shitting on web comics, btw.  Just the words that came to mind.

Thank you for popping in
You don't have to ignore the lower font though, if you have something to say about it.

To my eyes, the "best" and most consistent portion of the entire image is the bottom.  Bodies they're standing on - the lady in white especially seems more "polished" to me than anything else in the image.

Glad to know Audrey looks polished, as she was born to be

My opinion - there are elements to this cover that seem a bit foreign to you, you seem most comfortable to me with lines.  I don't see that as a bad thing, but I think you need to come to a determination of style and pursue that.  And when you encounter something you're not sure how to render or define in that style - it may require some research, separate studies to pull off.

That's true, I love doing line work. But I suppose I never really put much thought into line thickness or quantity. I've actually just started using PS, so the line art I believe was still done in SAI. I've been more comfortable with PS and have been deliberating line thickness in my recent drawings. I would actually feel inclined to redo the line art on the cover at this point, but then again, most people are probably going to see it at maybe 35% its size. So its task is to prompt someone to interest someone in checking out the book.
I also don't really like working with color (maybe due to reading so much manga), but I realize I need to learn to be more versatile. ...Besides improving in general.

Could be that's not where you're at right now, maybe you're at a point where you've done a 1,000 page art book...

I wish. I spent years writing a freaking book when I could've been spending more time drawing.

birb

I've also seen some ways to make the title font metal-ey without making it unreadable, so I'm contemplating that... I still need someone to convincingly explain to me why the current one doesn't work (so far no one has really argumented their opinion). Because I like the current one -.-

You're looking at the metal version of the title as something acting as a title, but don't forget you can turn it into a motif. It can become a recurrent design woven into clothing designs, a sort of sigil, an element on the spine of all installments, a subdued an element behind the regular-font title (moving it up and letting it become almost like a shadow) in a play of a dual title for a story named "duality"... you have full creative control here and the sky's the limit.

The reason it doesn't work right now: It's taking the best place for a title—both due the location itself and the amount of negative space around it—but it won't be readable to the majority of people browsing new stories to read, alienating them. What you want to do is catch the eye of people to the story, with an extra nod to metalheads in special, right? In terms of interaction:

- General Public (+)
- Metalheads (++)

But what is happening is that in relegating the regular title to a secondary spot you're ditching the chance to catch the eye of people who can't understand the metal design. You're sending the message your priorities are in the metalhead public (or "unspecified thing" if people don't even get the reference) no matter how inaccessible it makes your work to any other demographic. Even if those non-metalheads get the reference (like I did!) they might be driven away by thinking "this looks like something for metalheads only". You get:

- General public (-)
- Metalheads (++)

You're not getting a sum of two different reader profiles, you're subtracting one.

Also, I suspect the design doesn't read well in thumbnail size, becoming a vague large splotch where people expect the title to be.

I would actually feel inclined to redo the line art on the cover at this point, but then again, most people are probably going to see it at maybe 35% its size.

Don't underestimate the power of covers. While it's true the way it looks as a thumbnail has a big impact on the first click, an underwhelming full resolution version could lose you some of these potential readers while a polished one might be the final factor into their decision of hitting the "buy" button.

A good cover doesn't only convey the tone of the story, it's not just something fascinating to catch readers' eyes, it's also a way to communicate your commitment to your work. As an independent author, a well-rounded cover is also a promise of a well-rounded story. "Someone believes this story is good enough they went through all the trouble of getting it an awesome cover. Hey, it might be worth a read!"

[Edit]

I was curious about how the metal title would work as a graphical element like suggested so I went ahead and created an example of what I meant if you don't mind. I'd combine this with another appearance of the metal logo (this time without the regular title overlay) in the title page, spine or back cover to give it a spot of honor without detracting from the regular title on the cover. The title is using a random expressive font because I don't have many unique-looking condensed fonts and the art style begs for something audacious.

The thumbnail versions —196px and 85px tall to fit Amazon's current standards.

yamazakiofthevoid

@birb All fair points. And the title looks good, thank you.

Don't underestimate the power of covers. While it's true the way it looks as a thumbnail has a big impact on the first click, an underwhelming full resolution version could lose you some of these potential readers while a polished one might be the final factor into their decision of hitting the "buy" button.

Yes, that's why I've been stuck on it for such a long time. Then again, even in the book itself, Kindle makes the cover image really low res... I looked into it, but apparently that's just what Kindle does. But yeah, I'll probably end up redoing the line art anyway.
Again, thank you for the advice, will make sure to use it