Beginner modeler - firearm model

Boosted24v

So I guess you could say I have no experience at all, I only started doing this about a 3 1/2 weeks ago. My goal is to be able to create assets for an PC FPS game I want to make. I've watched countless hours of youtube videos and tried to apply the knowledge in my work but sought out a platform where I could now have people critique what I've made for further improvement in skill. So I started out modeling a SIG SAUR M17/P320. I've completely remodeled it four times and retextured it three times to where I'm fairly impressed, but I know it can be so much better.

I use Blender to model and substance painter for textures.

PS: The first two renders are in Substance Painter's Iray render engine and the 3rd render is in Blender's cycles engine. I'm not terribly positive why they look so different but assuming the environment has a good amount to do with it.

Brian "Panda" Choi

Did you make a high poly model/sculpt of the gun?

Boosted24v

No I haven't, that's it. Though I'm not entirely sure what further detail could be achieved with a higher poly model but that is why I sought to seek out the knowledge and critique of the more experienced. For all I know there could be tonssss more to do haha. But I'm defiantly trying to piece it all together. 

teodar23

Google chamferzone's tutorials or other gun tuts with hipoly to low poly baking.

Boosted24v

teodar23 said:

Google chamferzone's tutorials or other gun tuts with hipoly to low poly baking.

Thank you! I found his site an will look for others as well, I was absolutely scratching my head how some people seem to get insane detail out of their models and textures that I simply wasn't achieving. I hope to be able to update this with a much better result.

Brian "Panda" Choi

High Poly models help create normal map details.

BohSheh

Hi, welcome to the community!

Here are some of my advice
・Do you have any photo reference ?
・An object appearance depends on the lighting . When there is no light , you basically sees nothing . In digitally , there are various things that affect the light .
　・Shader：Convert and combine input ( texture, parameter )  into output(final result) by using sets of different math equation . Basically , 　　lambert and blinn shaders uses different sets of math equation , thats why they look differently . 
　・Light settings : Substance painter uses environment to light up your object . You have to use the exact same technique to achieve the 　　same lighting . Google up for HDRI environment map .
・If you are using it in game anyway , focus on how it look in the engine itself , and not blender . 

Boosted24v

BohSheh said:

Hi, welcome to the community!

Here are some of my advice
・Do you have any photo reference ?
・An object appearance depends on the lighting . When there is no light , you basically sees nothing . In digitally , there are various things that affect the light .
　・Shader：Convert and combine input ( texture, parameter )  into output(final result) by using sets of different math equation . Basically , 　　lambert and blinn shaders uses different sets of math equation , thats why they look differently . 
　・Light settings : Substance painter uses environment to light up your object . You have to use the exact same technique to achieve the 　　same lighting . Google up for HDRI environment map .
・If you are using it in game anyway , focus on how it look in the engine itself , and not blender . 

Thank you for your feedback, yes I've been using a couple reference photos, I can attach one for comparison.

I'd looked into the subject after my original post and discovered why they looked different, as you said HDRIs and environments. even after getting some HDRIs for blender it still looked off so I stopped caring because like you said it just matters what it would look like in the game engine.

Here is the main reference photo i've been working off of.

Boosted24v

Updated the model quite a bit since I posted from the advice that was given.

I redid the rear sight just because I didn't like how far apart the "sight posts" were in the original. I also rounded the rear of the sight plate as well as the slide so it wasn't so blocky.

I modeled in the grip on the rear of the slide, as well as grip surface on mag release, slide lock, and take down switch. I attempted to remodel how the thumb guard looked as well, it was way too blocky and pointed downward, so I tried to draw it in, smooth it out and aim it more upward. Also if it isn't obvious I modeled the magazine too lol.

I also beveled the edges of the slide interior to conform better and remove the blockieness I had going on

Zi0

Your proportions are way off and like Panda mentioned you will need a high poly model in you want to make high quality weapon models.

Take a look at these tutorials:
https://www.artstation.com/marketplace/p/XGGA/handgun-for-video-games-tutorial-complete-edition

https://flippednormals.com/downloads/handgun-tutorial-complete-edition/

Boosted24v

Zi0 said:

Your proportions are way off and like Panda mentioned you will need a high poly model in you want to make high quality weapon models.

Take a look at these tutorials:
https://www.artstation.com/marketplace/p/XGGA/handgun-for-video-games-tutorial-complete-edition

https://flippednormals.com/downloads/handgun-tutorial-complete-edition/

I appreciate your input, thus far i've been doing everything in Blender 2.8 and Substance painter. I think ill do the tutorial you linked from flipped normals, though using Blender instead of 3DS Max, for low poly, Zbrush for high poly etc. See what I can come up with.

Brian "Panda" Choi

You're gonna want to read this to udnerstand how to integrate Boolean modeling into your high poly modelmaking

https://polycount.com/discussion/168610/3ds-max-zbrush-proboolean-dynamesh-hardsurface-workflow-tutorial

Boosted24v

Brian "Panda" Choi said:

You're gonna want to read this to udnerstand how to integrate Boolean modeling into your high poly modelmaking

https://polycount.com/discussion/168610/3ds-max-zbrush-proboolean-dynamesh-hardsurface-workflow-tutorial

Hey thanks, I've done a little bit with booleans in Blender but haven't even opened Zbrush yet so I'll definitely give it a read. I've been trying to get into as many tutorials as I can, using google and youtube like a mad man.

Boosted24v

WIP completely new model

Boosted24v

Still got somethings to work out but its coming along.

Boosted24v

Boosted24v

Still doing lots of experimenting and learning but the highpoly model is coming along.

WIP:

Ashervisalis

Coming along! Can we see the wireframe?

Boosted24v

@Ashervisalis I wish I could say it was something impressive, but topology is bar far one of my weaknesses and one area I need a lot of improvement. Hence why if you look closely theres a few noticeable triangulation artifacts. If you scroll up a post or two theres one that has pretty similar topology to what I got, put on a solidify and triangulation modifier then imported into zbrush for dynamesh, smoothing and polish. Definitely trying to get this SOB perfect though! 

Tiggis

Where you have those triangles on those faces make sure those faces are planar/flatten. If you have the triangle modifier on in Blender, I guess you can do is also check if you see any triangles on the mesh/faces. If you haven't already, make use of the polygroups in Zbrush.

Boosted24v

@Tiggis I had triangulated the whole thing but it caused a huge mess and looked like crap. I spent a good bit dissolving all the extra edges and discovered the triangulation modifier which essentially does exactly the same thing but doesn't F the actual mesh. I just wanted to play around in zbrush to see what I could come up with despite the short comings. But I gotta get back into blender and figure out how to tame this topology. I'm gonna get this thing perfect if it kills me lol.

UPDATE: Made all the faces planar like you mentioned, and knifed in a grid from end to end on the slide, it cleaned up probably 90% of the issue, still some small triangles here and there but not sure ill be able to totally clean it up unless I was to manually go triangulate all those boolean cuts. But gonna continue to try and clean it up as much as I can.

Boosted24v

After a bit of work, this is the current wireframe, for those asking.

EDIT: An here inside zbrush prior to doing anything. Slide is insanely better looking than it was previously. Geo on the main body around the magazine release button and behind the ergonomic indent could use some work still. But, getting there. Also I can't figure out for the life of me why zbrush murders my extractor claw on the slide. 15 out of 16 pieces import fine. Scale applied, Normals facing the proper direction, have UV, no ngons, but comes in messed up still. ugh.

teodar23

Well its clear that you need to understand that real time engines dont work well with lots of thin polygons. Also, a general rule is that your model should have more polys in the contour i.e the outline of the model that is most visible. For example, the trigger is a good place to put more polys because its outline is very visible. You added a bit too much and not very uniformly distributed. The trigger guard has way too many poligons for such small shapes and begind the trigger theres that curved part of the pistol wich you made a bit too low poly.
The slide grip (angled cuts) are ridiculously high poly and the sig logo could have been done in the normalmap.

Boosted24v

@teodar23 Yes, I'm still working on creating a solid highpoly model to make the normal map for a lowpoly. I'm new to this so it's all been a learning process.