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Hired based off of certain software knowledge?

Do studios hire based on what particular software you know? For instance, Substance designer is industry standard but I can get the exact same results in Photoshop using PBR workflow as someone in Designer can, and in the same amount of time. Would I be allowed to create tileable materials in PS or would I be forced to learn Designer? This is about Designer specifically. Though this question can be applied to any software. (I am an environment artist student btw)

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  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    You cant do a PBR workflow in the same time in PS vs Painter. 
    Painter is a requirement in a lot of modern game pipelines. There is no Photoshop at all.
  • Pirax
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    Pirax triangle
    I find that people tend to hire the artist for their art, rather than the software they know.
    They can always mold a good artist into a new tool rather than reinforce good practices to a lesser artist.
    In saying that if you have two equal artists and one happens to fit into X companies pipeline easier then it's logical for the company to employ the person who can more easily adapt into the workflow. 
  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher veteran polycounter
    any materials artist getting hired for games should have a deep knowledge of substance designer, and probably soon quixel mixer. It is just the dominating, industry standard software at the moment. But no only that, using painter and designer to create materials these days is the industry standard SKILLSET. this is usually what is more important. for materials that skillset just happens to hinge on a specific software that have all the market share at the moment. You can eyeball pbr in photoshop but it is probably not going to be consistent with the other 2-5 materials artists work on the team, who are most likely using substance. It could also be viewed as clinging to the past and potentially a red flag that you don't like to learn or adopt new workflows. There were a lot of people who refused to learn highpoly or normal map creation at the start of the ps3 era and eventually they just faded from the industry as they couldn't keep their portfolios and skillsets relevant.  

    for example, a lot of companies would hire someone who can create insanely high quality models regardless of their background, even if they were only familiar with blender and the studio was max or maya based, because the modeling skillset is pretty independent of software. knowing what looks good, how to give models weight and form and the right balance of details is not max maya or blender specific. My first job was maya based, but I had only ever used max, they hired my anyways and I was ramped up and decently efficient in maya in a few weeks. buttons and tool names are different, but the overall workflow was pretty similar. 

    when it comes to a broader skillset like modeling, chances are the company will hire the person who demonstrates the highest overall level of skill. I haven't really ever seen someone say "well this person is a godlike modeler but only uses blender,  this other person over here is "ok"......but they know max! lets hire them" 

    and another answer would be, yes, people are getting hired specifically because they have a high level of knowledge in houdini and that is becoming way more of an asset to game production these days. If you specialize in destruction/simulations or can create powerful procedural tools in houdini, you are probably going to be invaluable to a team. 

    so while a lot of the time skillsets can be independent of software, in the case of material creation, painter and designer are pretty much the standard everyone in the industry is using. 
  • DigitalGravity
    I see. Thank you for all of your replies.
  • marks
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    marks greentooth
    No, you can't just use photoshop. It's not even a discussion.
  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter
    marks said:
    No, you can't just use photoshop. It's not even a discussion.
    I see. Thank you for all of your replies.

    You haven't specified which studio you're looking at. This like that other question which put a generalist character artist against a generalist environment artist for a random environment artist position really needs to be more specific about the requirements of a job.

    I know of several game studios that have never heard of substance painter/designer and only use photoshop since they just don't need to invest in those softwares.
    The standard of PBR they expect for the work they do is nothing like what a studio like say Naughty Dog would expect of an environment artist. 

    However if you are going for PBR realistic approach and have the time, its fine to invest in learning a new program. Not to say knowing it will absolutely get you hired, but better to be aware of current workflows.
  • CrackRockSteady
    NikhilR said:
    marks said:
    No, you can't just use photoshop. It's not even a discussion.
    I see. Thank you for all of your replies.

    You haven't specified which studio you're looking at. This like that other question which put a generalist character artist against a generalist environment artist for a random environment artist position really needs to be more specific about the requirements of a job.

    I know of several game studios that have never heard of substance painter/designer and only use photoshop since they just don't need to invest in those softwares.
    The standard of PBR they expect for the work they do is nothing like what a studio like say Naughty Dog would expect of an environment artist. 

    However if you are going for PBR realistic approach and have the time, its fine to invest in learning a new program. Not to say knowing it will absolutely get you hired, but better to be aware of current workflows.
    Most studios will require you to know Substance.  Sure there are still studios that use photoshop but those are edge cases and that's going to become more and more rare.

    If you want to cling to photoshop and refuse to learn software that's now industry standard you're welcome to do that, just be aware that you're handicapping yourself.  You're ultimately competing with other artists who *do* know Substance, and any lead/director worth their salt will know that claiming that you can accomplish the same things in PS in the same timeframe as with Painter is nonsense.
  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter
    NikhilR said:
    marks said:
    No, you can't just use photoshop. It's not even a discussion.
    I see. Thank you for all of your replies.

    You haven't specified which studio you're looking at. This like that other question which put a generalist character artist against a generalist environment artist for a random environment artist position really needs to be more specific about the requirements of a job.

    I know of several game studios that have never heard of substance painter/designer and only use photoshop since they just don't need to invest in those softwares.
    The standard of PBR they expect for the work they do is nothing like what a studio like say Naughty Dog would expect of an environment artist. 

    However if you are going for PBR realistic approach and have the time, its fine to invest in learning a new program. Not to say knowing it will absolutely get you hired, but better to be aware of current workflows.
    Most studios will require you to know Substance.  Sure there are still studios that use photoshop but those are edge cases and that's going to become more and more rare.

    If you want to cling to photoshop and refuse to learn software that's now industry standard you're welcome to do that, just be aware that you're handicapping yourself.  You're ultimately competing with other artists who *do* know Substance, and any lead/director worth their salt will know that claiming that you can accomplish the same things in PS in the same timeframe as with Painter is nonsense.
    I don't believe OP was that gung ho about sticking with photoshop. Ultimately what he ends up using really depends on the use case and that in turn depends on what studio he's at. 
    For example suppose the game he's working on as an environment artist requires him to make the models which are then rendered out and painted on in photoshop and then composited.
    There are several studios that use this technique primarily for adventure point and click style games. Its a massive market that isn't quite mainstream, but they too need good artists.

    Maybe many of them just get by fine using photoshop, maybe he'd join in and then they'd learn substance together, who knows.

    The problem with most answers here is that since we don't know the complete story from the question, each of us is deciding what to say depending on what we've experience in the industry.
    Sure Substance painter is standard I don't dispute that, but to say that "claiming that you can accomplish the same things in PS in the same timeframe as with Painter is nonsense." really depends on what is needed on the job.

    Not every artist is trying to get into the same run of the mill cookie cutter studios that are the popular picks. Some are just looking for a start without spending too much time learning the ropes and not getting paid for doing so.
  • CrackRockSteady
    NikhilR said:
    NikhilR said:
    marks said:
    No, you can't just use photoshop. It's not even a discussion.
    I see. Thank you for all of your replies.

    You haven't specified which studio you're looking at. This like that other question which put a generalist character artist against a generalist environment artist for a random environment artist position really needs to be more specific about the requirements of a job.

    I know of several game studios that have never heard of substance painter/designer and only use photoshop since they just don't need to invest in those softwares.
    The standard of PBR they expect for the work they do is nothing like what a studio like say Naughty Dog would expect of an environment artist. 

    However if you are going for PBR realistic approach and have the time, its fine to invest in learning a new program. Not to say knowing it will absolutely get you hired, but better to be aware of current workflows.
    Most studios will require you to know Substance.  Sure there are still studios that use photoshop but those are edge cases and that's going to become more and more rare.

    If you want to cling to photoshop and refuse to learn software that's now industry standard you're welcome to do that, just be aware that you're handicapping yourself.  You're ultimately competing with other artists who *do* know Substance, and any lead/director worth their salt will know that claiming that you can accomplish the same things in PS in the same timeframe as with Painter is nonsense.
    I don't believe OP was that gung ho about sticking with photoshop. Ultimately what he ends up using really depends on the use case and that in turn depends on what studio he's at. 
    For example suppose the game he's working on as an environment artist requires him to make the models which are then rendered out and painted on in photoshop and then composited.
    There are several studios that use this technique primarily for adventure point and click style games. Its a massive market that isn't quite mainstream, but they too need good artists.

    Maybe many of them just get by fine using photoshop, maybe he'd join in and then they'd learn substance together, who knows.

    The problem with most answers here is that since we don't know the complete story from the question, each of us is deciding what to say depending on what we've experience in the industry.
    Sure Substance painter is standard I don't dispute that, but to say that "claiming that you can accomplish the same things in PS in the same timeframe as with Painter is nonsense." really depends on what is needed on the job.

    Not every artist is trying to get into the same run of the mill cookie cutter studios that are the popular picks. Some are just looking for a start without spending too much time learning the ropes and not getting paid for doing so.
    It seems like your point here boils down to "If the studio you're going to work at doesn't use industry standard software, then you won't need to know industry standard software", which is absolutely true.

    But if you're new to the industry and just trying to get your foot in the door (as a student, for example), you may not have the luxury of choosing whichever studio you like.

    In that case, it would probably be quite beneficial to at least familiarize yourself with modeling and texturing software that the majority of studios use.  Even if you end up working at a studio where you don't need it, being familiar with industry standard software is going to make finding work much easier.

    As Pirax mentioned, knowledge of a particular software is not going to make or break you, your artwork is.  But as a junior artist coming into the industry you're going up against a ton of other talented artists, and if their work is on par with yours but you don't know Max/Maya or Substance, you've put yourself at a serious disadvantage for no reason.
  • beefaroni
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    beefaroni sublime tool
    When looking at software it's not only about the quality but how you can utilize the software to scale production quickly while maintaining quality.

    If you are able to create a custom Smart Material through Designer and Painter that gets artists on the team and external artists 80% of the way done with a texture, you have scaled your output to others on the team and made yourself much more valuable to the company.

    At a certain point in your career, I believe it is important to have a mindset of "how do I help others hit a high quality" rather than "how do I alone hit a high quality". The former is much more valuable.



  • melviso
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    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    I feel the new ZBrush tools surpasses substance painter and designer combined. The tractor brush, recall history brush, poly paint on flattened uvs, u can mask and tweak a specific polypaint color easily among others help speed up texture creation in Zbrush now and ZBrush supports udim baking.
    In terms of speed, I am not sure but there is a way to get edge masking in Zbrush automatically.
    Substance is awesome as well as Quixel Mixer
  • Zi0
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    Zi0 polycounter
    Even if you can have the same result in photoshop, if Substance is a part of the workflow of a studio you will need to adapt. You might get a task to tweak a material in substance made by someone else and as a photoshop only user you want be able to do it that easily, which would be very inconvenient for a studio.

    Also if a studio can choose between two artists and one knows substance and the other doesn't, the substance guy will win.
  • Meloncov
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    Meloncov greentooth
    and another answer would be, yes, people are getting hired specifically because they have a high level of knowledge in houdini and that is becoming way more of an asset to game production these days. If you specialize in destruction/simulations or can create powerful procedural tools in houdini, you are probably going to be invaluable to a team. 

    Even in that situation, the important part isn't really knowing Houdini in particular, it's understanding procedural asset creation. Someone who is skilled in making procedural assets in other ways (like through Python scripting within Maya, or by writing tools for use within the game engine) is also gonna have a pretty easy time getting hired.
  • melviso
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    melviso polycounter lvl 10
    Just curious though, are there in house employees who use ZBrush for texturing or substance is a must?
    So, I saw these videos of polypaint in zbrush:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONLg_gC1tE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwB754lJ_Sc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0iiZRVgy9o
    These are basically substance painter and designer and quixel mixer combined.
    And since its polypaint, its resolution indepedent, you can create tileable polypaint textures in ZBrush as well and will look more organic.
    I would say the advantage substance designer has is you can change parameters like say the size or pattern of a bricks material easily. You can also create variations of that brick texture  in designer so that saves time but this can also easily be done in ZBRush . As for painter though, I see no difference as u can create edge masking in ZBrush
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGeAixOAsIY

    as well as ao aand cavity baking.


  • poopipe
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    poopipe grand marshal polycounter
    Automatic edge detection / masking etc. is a tiny part of what makes painter useful in a studio. 

    I couldn't be arsed watching the videos all the way through but unless zbrush now supports non-destructive, UV independent material painting from a shared & managed library that also underpins the rest of your material pipeline as well as supporting easily to build custom filters it's not really in a position to compete. 

    it does seem to have improved it's paint tools though so thats nice

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