How to design 3d hard surface spaceships?

sargisstg

Hi polycounters!

Here I want to open the topic where we could discuss how it's possible to design complex spaceships, where to start and where we can find some inspirations? Also, It will be cool to know some tips from artists who already had experience in designing spaceships and other complex hard surface stuff. It's not about how to make correct topology, bla bla or something else.

Below I will attach some really great stuff that I found on Artstation. I wonder how have they planned everything?





So let's share our knowledge and learn with each other. 

Obscura

The first and the last one are made by Hans Palm - @Millenia . And they use thim sheet texturing, so I'm not sure how much were the smaller details the part of the original concepts. Imagine doing concept art around the idea of trim textures. So I'd assume they only concepted the big shapes. Maybe I'm wrong though. 

sargisstg

Yeah I have already following his works they are incredible. It's a good idea to use a trim sheet for texturing. I wonder what they are looking for to get an idea for the shapes.

Millenia

Basically on FS, since all we could afford was a couple pieces of top tier concept art, we got Mike Hill and Long Ouyang to develop the initial look for our three manufacturers with detailed concepts made in 3d, and we used the style and shape language they set to build the rest ourselves. Thankfully Mike did a great breakdown of the flagship here:

http://www.mikehill.design/constructing-the-usr-flagship/

Here's one I designed myself, I'm not a concept artist by any means but you can see how important having a set style is when asset guys like myself can just bash together new designs.

sargisstg

Thank you very much for the article, there was a lot of information. By the way, I see it's not easy work and It will take too much time to create something like that. I'm planning to create a spaceship and your works are my inspiration. I'm not sure can I finish it or not but I will try

PixelMasher

scifi design is one of my weak points too. I would look at resources for industrial design and product engineering, those will really help you out. here are some useful vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n94ggmsVDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkYnoaSB5xw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crCZEQEgFZ0

jaker3278

The middle image in your original post looks like good plain old polymodeling and texturing, just on a larger scale. Then its been rendered in a production rendered like vray or redshift with GI. Then with a matte painting in the background and atmospherics added. 

sargisstg

I see a lot of 3d artists are using already designed concepts. Is it a good idea to learn drawing to design first and then continue modeling?

Millenia

Ultimately depends on what you want to do - if you want to get good at high end asset production I'd advise against using a lot of your energy on design also because it will make progress a lot slower. It's good to have a basic grasp of it so you can adapt and modify designs but I would largely practice building from other people's concepts. Most concept artists will tell you yes if you ask if you can model their concepts with credit provided

jaker3278

@sargisstg Drawing is very helpful indeed, its harder to design inside 3d software than it is to design on paper first. You dont necessarily have to be an expert draftsman but spending a significant amount of time on paper first will enhance your 3d design massively. You can draw parts then model and then go back to paper, doing an overview of your design on paper will help too.  

sargisstg

Ok thank you all.  yes you are right for now I think it's better to use other people's concepts for practice and who knows maybe sometimes I will design my own 

Octo

Here's a method.

sargisstg

@Octo haha this is a cool method

sacboi

In my opinion, the air brushy art/designs of traditional Sci-Fi illustrators such as Chris Foss, are still relevant today. For me 40yrs after leaving high school, when as a nerdy book worm reading a German pulp 900 issue serialised Sci-Fi publication "Perry Rhodan" I'd first clapped eyes on his book covers. He's also renown for his black and white line work for "The Joy of Sex, A Gourmet Guide to Love Making" in collaboration with Charles Raymond.

https://www.chrisfossart.com/

Shrike

Its not still relevant, its timeless and a level/style of its own. Maybe not the best reference to make a typical ""realistic"" sci-fi design tho.

I have the book, really good stuff

sargisstg said:

I see a lot of 3d artists are using already designed concepts. Is it a good idea to learn drawing to design first and then continue modeling?

IMO Hell no, first focus on modelling well, here we have a bit of a issue as space ships do not exist but really follow a reference until you are perfectly confident in your modelling and texturing skills, learning both at a time really makes things much harder and slower. 

zachagreg

Falling in line with what others have already said, I would focus on modeling reference accurately first. When designing your own spaceship you can run into the issues that some character artists run into when starting out. That their concept/design just isn't up to par with what is being made. A poor design can still kill out excellent execution as it will just come across as strange even if well done.

I wouldn't focus so much on realistic designs as what is realistic in terms of spaceships, especially if they're manufactured in space rather than on planet, can vary wildly depending on the situation and purpose for their construction.

I believe by looking at reference first you'll see the hallmarks that peak people's interests and what people like and you'll be able to greater leverage those concepts in your work. I would also recommend nailing down a least 2 or 3 styles of Sci-Fi to focus on as you can go from Diesel Punk to Cassette-futurism and still fall under the Sci-Fi genre.

sargisstg

Shrike said:

Its not still relevant, its timeless and a level/style of its own. Maybe not the best reference to make a typical ""realistic"" sci-fi design tho.

I have the book, really good stuff

sargisstg said:

I see a lot of 3d artists are using already designed concepts. Is it a good idea to learn drawing to design first and then continue modeling?

IMO Hell no, first focus on modelling well, here we have a bit of a issue as space ships do not exist but really follow a reference until you are perfectly confident in your modelling and texturing skills, learning both at a time really makes things much harder and slower. 

The fact is that I know modeling and other skills very well already 5-6 years. The only problem is that I can't imagine and create new designs. Even I've tried to watch many films maybe there is possible to find some inspiration there.

Ashervisalis

Eric Geusz takes inspiration from random objects and turns them into space ships. It's a pretty neat method and you can come up with cool interstellar designs. Kind of a funny way of creating things too!

https://www.boredpanda.com/spaceship-design-everyday-objects-digital-art-eric-geusz/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

sargisstg

I really loved the workflow of Eric Geusz. Today I have seen the energizer battery charger in my room and decided to try with it =D and here is the fast sketch by me in a short amount of time. I'm not good at sketching just tried to get an idea. Maybe I will continue it in 3D

zachagreg

sargisstg said:

I really loved the workflow of Eric Geusz. Today I have seen the energizer battery charger in my room and decided to try with it =D and here is the fast sketch by me in a short amount of time. I'm not good at sketching just tried to get an idea. Maybe I will continue it in 3D

I like the sketch, progressing this further think about what the ships main purpose is. Eric's work you can discern what kind of ship it is and how it is being used. You've got either a large veranda viewing area on the deck of the ship or hangar area, put some other elements and features in that would accentuate those features and enhance it's use.

oraeles77

I think the big thing is the amount of detail and/or the distance the distance the viewer is from the object, if like those concept images/renders posted at the top of the page, the actual spaceship is just geometric shapes and a lot of patience. if its a game object, first person then its a much more detailed thing and a whole different ball park.

Panupat

Really great video @PixelMasher thank you.

After watching all 3 I tried applying what I know by analyzing this piece - I found it's not a very pleasing piece to look at but at the end I failed to come up with any explanation... ... any input please?

Unknown_Target

Greebles for the sake of greebles, nowhere for the eye to rest. No functionality for that giant glass chest. Those would be my thoughts.

Fictional spaceship design is about three things:

1) Silhouette. Your ship should have an angle(s) that it's immediately readable from. Eric's pieces start with the silhouette and go in from there. Guns typically make for great spaceship silhouettes. My one criticism of Eric's work is that he relies on gravity based design for his ships - he hardly ever has a strong vertical axis. For example, take any one of his ships and rotate them 90 degrees and they will immediately become more unique and interesting as a spaceship.

2) Function. The ship needs to be at least somewhat obvious in what it does. If it carries cargo, it needs containers or a big shipping bay or something like that. This ties in with realistic touches like engines that look like real engines, reaction control thrusters, etc. But of course think critically; as I mention in my next point, don't just add a fan or an intake to a spaceship unless it's also supposed to go in the atmosphere. If it's supposed to go into the atmosphere, you need streamlining etc. Don't just go "oh it floats with invisible thrusters/anti-grav", it's the lazy way out and one of the major problems I have with Star Citizen ships.

3) Scale. Spaceships in particular require this because there are no hard rules for their shape. Windows are a strong go-to. Airlocks, paneling, maintenance access, ladders (think about astronauts trying to move across the exterior in 0g) fans (avoid these unless you can say why you need a fan in space) - something that people can relate to and identify as a scale marker.