Kord Heavy Machine Gun (WIP)

ftsmith

Hello everyone. This is a project that I've been working on for a while and with the low poly just more or less finished, I got it to a point where it feels right to post it for feedback. Besides the missing nuts and bolts I hope I'm within the margin of error for the proportions and placement of some of these pieces. If anyone has some tips or critiques I'm all ears.

Also I know it's kind of far away but if anyone has any good ideas on what I should do for the material just so everything isn't all black I'm open to ideas.

ftsmith

Another update for the Kord. Just ignore the post time between this one and the previous one. I just finished baking and I think they came out pretty good minus a couple of AO issues. I can FINALLY start texturing, but seeing how this gun is mostly all black I was wondering if anyone has some tips to make it look interesting despite the color? If anyone got some tips, questions, or critique I'm all ears.

Zi0

So far so good, my only feedback would be that the rubber on the scope looks a bit too static shape wise, could be a bit more organic.

ftsmith

Ok thanks. I'll try messing around with the shape

ftsmith

Another update. I just finished the base materials and wanted to get feedback on it. I think I went too ham on the wear and tear, so I want other people's opinions. I noticed a lot of minor model errors when texturing so I have to go back and fix those things before I move on to the secondary details. I'm also going to revisit the high poly and give it some more love so that I don't have to rely on Painter for normal details. As of right now some of the edges look pretty sharp and some details will look better bake downed. 

ftsmith

Actually the more I look at this the more it seems my gunmetal material is fucked up. Does anyone know any good material breakdowns or tutorials?

teodar23

It doesnt look that bad, its just that its very repetitive and not very interesting. Try to do a few materials, even if its basically a duplicate of your gunmetal but with slight hue or roughness tweak and assign to various parts so that it breaks up the monotony.

switz

Did you bake your AO, Curvature, Position and Thickness maps? I doesn't look like your smart material is utilizing those channels.

KAE

Maybe too late for such a comment, but you can consider this for your next projects. It is always advisable to use larger bevels in your high poly mesh, even if the real model has is too sharp edges. This way the model will look better and the viewer can read these bevels on greater distances.
Another thing is, that you have blue and red spots almost everywhere in your metal textures (except the scope), which is not realistic. Those effects can only be seen afaik around the muzzle and the bolt area or ejection port (if the weapon is too old and used)

ftsmith

teodar23- yeah I knew one of the big challenges I had for this project was making all the black material look interesting. I'll try to come up with some ideas on how to make it look more interesting.

switz - I did bake all those maps, but it could be possible I'm not utilizing them in the best possible way. I just used it for the dirt and metal edge wear generator. Are there any other uses for those maps besides generators?

KAE - Yeah I have a bad habit of being conservative for my bevels. I was going to revisit my high poly any way so it's a good opportunity to revisit some stuff. Was there a specific part that pointed out the most to you? Also for the red/blue hues were from some parts based off the reference, but I should probably tone it down if its that noticeable.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll make sure to take it in consideration when I go back and fix some stuff.

Zi0

It looks like you have one gun metal that is on 80% of the parts, the whole gun and tripod is one material which I don't think is very interesting to look at. The materials them self look very cloudy and washed out. Take a look at the picture below

Its a FN MAG, look at the barrel, receiver and gas tube. The gas tube is black and glossy while the barrels is gray and flat, the receiver has some height information to it, the part that the barrel connects to is glossy again which creates a nice contrast with the flat barrel. Try to build a library of close up weapon pictures and study different materials.

The model itself looks good so if you just take your time to study materials and texture it nicely then this can become a awesome portfolio piece. You can even make a cool little battle scene out of the KORD by adding a couple of sandbags and spare ammo boxes and make it look like a cool little battle scene  

Good luck!

ftsmith

Thanks for the example. Texturing and Material identification is something I always struggled with. And I have always been a slacker when it came to studying, but if its to make this piece look a lot better I'll start to take it more seriously. 

Having a battle diorama thing was something I wanted to do eventually, so I'm glad it's the right call to make. Thanks again for the tips.

ftsmith

Another long overdue update. I updated the highpoly a little bit to have better bakes and changed up the material to make things more interesting. Its looking a lot better than last time and I want to see if I'm heading in the right direction. Im still struggling a little on colorization, but I'm slowly refining it to a point I like. After messing with the base materials some more, hopefully, soon I can start on some finer details such as decals and texts.

Zi0

A bit better bit still a way to go, materials feel like random grunge a cloudiness. I think you need to practice materials more, look at stuff made by others and try to hit the same quality level, take a look at stuff that RYZIN has posted a while ago.

If you wonder how to do such things then maybe do a tutorial or two? There are great weapon texturing tutorials out there like this one https://www.artstation.com/artwork/lVy0bV and more.

ftsmith

I took your advice and really looked at RYZIN stuff (thanks for the advice btw). More specifically the ones that are mostly one color like mine. I see what you mean by "random grunge of cloudiness" and tried to make it less noisy. I just focused on the main gun part material for now and re-evaluated what is necessary. I would like some feedback to see if it's still too much going on. Once I get this material just right I can use it as a reference point for all the others.

Zi0

Looks way better now its a more believable material.

When it comes to these kind of scratches you need to think if their placement makes sens, currently its on a surface that is surrounded by stuff that's sticking out so its seems unlikely that this part would get a scratch. Study pictures of machine guns in order to get the hang of this like the PKM below:

When you are learning how to texture weapons its important to gather a lot of references, its hard do find good pictures of a KORD but its way easier to find stuff on weapons that are from similar materials, for instance the PKM.

And youtube is also filled with high quality videos that you can use as reference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_3a9CAdYxs

I think that you are on the right track but you can push it more

Good luck!

ftsmith

Thank you so much for taking the time to write things out and give examples. You are definitely carrying this project

ftsmith

Another update on the materials. I pretty much finished the main materials and major details and can now focus on minor details like welding and scratches. I set up a quick scene in marmoset 4, but it may not be the most optimal or has the best lighting. Lighting metal is something I always struggled with. Something i got to work on in the future. 
 

ftsmith

Hello again. I think I finished with texturing the gun fully and did some full renders. I feel like I got the best shots possible but I may be missing an angle or two. Now to work on some additional models for the gun like bullets and an ammo case. Before I move on, I wanted to get some feedback on my renders and textures. 

Zi0

Hey man, nice work!

 Take a look at where you were and what progress you have made! Your materials separate and read way better then before, the whole weapon is more interesting to looking. I do have some additional feedback tho.

The rubber looks more metal then rubber, the brown handles need bit more vibrancy. Other then that the edge wear on the tripod is way too procedural, the way it outlines the whole model looks very fake.

Good luck man!

Torch

I like it, looks like a Simon Fuchs model

ftsmith

Hello everyone, it has been....... holy shit 7 months. I was feeling burnt out and lazy working on this, but i managed to push through to something I'm satisfied with. I took the feedback I saw and added some accessories to make the Kord feel more complete. I also redid the lighting to accommodate the new models.

I feel like I have nothing else to add modeling-wise and just going to refine the texture and lighting if necessary. All I have to do next is make a small environment in which I'm going to use Mixer (once I learn it), as well as the models they provide. Hopefully, that part doesn't take me another half a year.

Like always any feedback is always welcomed. Im concerned if the lighting/shadows look a little weird, especially on the ammo box, so I would like to hear what others have to say

Phoenix995

came out great! good stuff!

ftsmith

Actually, now that I think about it more, I'm not sure if making a small environment is worth it. All the additional background props may get in the way of the gun. So I might call it on this version, with maybe a couple of presentation tweaks.

sacboi

Weapon looks good but realistic lighting as you've already noted needs a bit of work - intensity, scale, exposure...etc.

“Anything worth doing, is worth doing right.”  

Edit:

Also this might be of interest - https://www.artstation.com/blogs/benbolton/YPL3/lighting-for-asset-presentation

ftsmith

Thanks for the link. I'll def give it a good read

I have a surprisingly quick update. I messed around with Quixel Mixer and got a mini environment going with the help of the megascans and asset library. I just took a couple of renders more as a rough draft rather than the final thing. I wanted to see if I was going in the right direction or if i made things worse. I'm still figuring out the layout of all the imported assets.

With all these new assets I do have to go back and redo the lighting and probably the camera settings as well. I'm wondering what i do about the shadows for all these new assets and even the gun now that there's a floor now. They stick out, so i was considering just disabling the shadows, but that might make it look weirder.

Dethling

I have to admit, I like the "non-environment" scene more. It set the focus on the asset without any distraction.
I would also see if I can rework the lighting (something I struggle myself with EVERY time).
It looks a little bit overexposed (especially around the scope and the barrel).

teodar23

Agree completely with the above.
Maybe use a black to gray gradient as a background or a blurred dark hdri.

ftsmith

I figured the environment was a miss. I guess there's a reason why you don't see it often. Oh well at least I somewhat know how to use Mixer now

ftsmith

Alright lets try this again. I tweaked the lighting some more, hopefully, it's closer in the right direction cause this is quite tedious. The line between overexposure and dark shadows is surprisingly thin. I made sure to follow the 3 point set up more strictly and add in very subtle extra lights.

Iv'e been using this method for lighting https://marmoset.co/posts/lighting-and-rendering-guns-in-toolbag/ which I like a lot. I kind of prefer this method as it takes out the ambient light from the HDR, which makes my life a bit easier. I don't have to test and cycle through a bunch of HDR's to find the one with the right light, I can just control all the lights myself. But I recognize that just because it's easier doesn't mean its better.

ftsmith

Another update with updated lighting. I have to make the background consistent, but besides that, I think I can call it done.

Kanni3d

I think contextually, you could atleast throw a ground plane on here (i say contextually, because you have an engaged tripod, spent casings on the floor, and an open box of belt-ammo - looks a bit strange with the common floating in the void render style). It'll give you the "mini-environment" desire you previously had, without detracting much from the piece.

Lighting looks a bit over exposed on some parts, there's some really hot white areas, which is likely giving the inside of the ammo box some really dark and weird shadowing. Try dropping a subtle and soft fill light in there, while toning the other hot spotlights down a bit

great work man!

ftsmith

Thanks for the feedback. You bring up a good point. I'll look around and see if I can add a neutral plane or something to blend in the background 

Also yeah the lighting I used is all sky lights and for some reason the ammo box gets blown up.  Guess I gotta go back and use more target specific lights.

kanga

WooHoo Great stuff man. Big difference when someone actually listens.

ftsmith

Hello everyone. I took your guy's advice and reworked the lighting so that nothing is over-exposed and added some light to the very dark spots. I also softened some of the harsh shadows and added a floor plane to capture some of the shadows. One last addition, I finally added glass to the scope, something I kept forgetting to do.

 Because of the added floor, most of the shots ended up with a dark blue color tone, so let me know if that's something I need to change. This is real close to completion, so i don't want to end up missing something major on submission. 

Kanni3d

I'd play with the Distance/Width slider on the lights that are casting the shadows from the bipod/gun - it's pretty sharp and cg looking. Also the shadow under the spent casing on the ground are really strange looking

teodar23

The ammobox is still very bright. Can you post an albedo/base color shot with the whole gun? I think your albedo is very dark thats why you added very bright lights or raised the exposure in cc.

ftsmith

Hello everyone. So I figured out why my lighting was so off. The Global Illumination is tied with Ray Tracing, and i never turned it on. So I just enabled it and redid lighting from there. The reason I had it off was cause it caused my computer to freeze completely, but I tweaked some settings to prevent that. Now looking at the before and after it's night and day and i kind of wish I turned on ray tracing before. I also darkened the color of the ammo box, so that it doesnt get blown up by the lights. Im still trying to find the balance of brightness, making sure its not too dark or too bright, but I feel like I'm a lot closer to finalizing things.

I also removed one of the camera angles ive been using as it was pretty similar to another one. I think I have all angles covered (besides orthographic) so let me know if Im missing any

Zi0

Looks way better this way, nice work.

Kanni3d

Ouf, large improvement. For additional performance, you can also have the viewport render at 1:2 resolution and render the screenshots at full.

Sagar_Rudach

this man took feedbacks so well, and improvement is clearly visible, great job @ftsmith keep it up.

SrgFlamez

The way you took all the feedback, critique and suggestions on board and improved your work is impressive.

Great example of taking it on the chin and moving forward. @ftsmith you will go far.