Is painted metal for guns ever 'metallic"?

guitarguy00
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guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
Let's take the classic Uzi for example. I know the handle and grip are made of a polymer/plastic so they would be non-metallic but how about the other parts of the weapon? I know any edge wear that reveals the actual metal material underneath would be metallic and always assumed the 'painted metal' on top is non-metallic. What would the painted metal be in this case? Is there ever a case where a metallic paint would be used(for certain car paint jobs etc?).  Would colored anodized metal be metallic or non-metallic? Thanks heaps in advance.



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  • poopipe
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    poopipe quad damage
    uzis are made of cheap sheet steel that's been painted - on other weapons you'll also find ceramic coating and various other non metal finishes depending on what it's for and how much it costs.  

    A decent quality 1911/ older style rifle etc. will be blued  -  that's a chemical treatment similar to anodising that leaves an oxidised layer  of something on the surface.  you'ld have to look up what the surface is to know whether it's dielectric or metallic 



  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg polycounter
    If something is hot blued( the most common form) the surface is a Magnetite compound which is a type of iron oxide and it is non-dielectric. Rust bluing can get a little more complicated because when going from the red iron oxide of rust to the black one (magnetite) often there is not a 100% conversion of the two materials as the process is repeated several times and excess rust scrubbed off some times resulting in aesthetic speckling of dielectric rust on and in non-dielectric magnetite.
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    poopipe said:
    uzis are made of cheap sheet steel that's been painted - on other weapons you'll also find ceramic coating and various other non metal finishes depending on what it's for and how much it costs.  

    A decent quality 1911/ older style rifle etc. will be blued  -  that's a chemical treatment similar to anodising that leaves an oxidised layer  of something on the surface.  you'ld have to look up what the surface is to know whether it's dielectric or metallic 



    Thanks for that. So safe to say every part of the pictured uzi(except for the chamber cover where the used bullet ejects from) is non-metallic.

    If a surface is dielectric does that mean it is non-metallic, or more of a 0.5 value?
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg polycounter
    poopipe said:
    uzis are made of cheap sheet steel that's been painted - on other weapons you'll also find ceramic coating and various other non metal finishes depending on what it's for and how much it costs.  

    A decent quality 1911/ older style rifle etc. will be blued  -  that's a chemical treatment similar to anodising that leaves an oxidised layer  of something on the surface.  you'ld have to look up what the surface is to know whether it's dielectric or metallic 



    Thanks for that. So safe to say every part of the pictured uzi(except for the chamber cover where the used bullet ejects from) is non-metallic.

    If a surface is dielectric does that mean it is non-metallic, or more of a 0.5 value?
    Dielectric is non-metallic essentially. It means its a poor conductor.
  • poopipe
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    poopipe quad damage
    guitarguy00 said:

    Thanks for that. So safe to say every part of the pictured uzi(except for the chamber cover where the used bullet ejects from) is non-metallic.

    If a surface is dielectric does that mean it is non-metallic, or more of a 0.5 value?
    For uzis the 'chamber cover' is actually part of the bolt - it's probably cast from steel and likely treated to prevent rust in some way.
    I'm fairly sure the pistol grip is plastic. 

    I'm not fully up on how uzis are put together - forgotten weapons is your friend for this sort of research.. 

    And yeah, dielectric is non-metal as stated abovr

  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    poopipe said:
    guitarguy00 said:

    Thanks for that. So safe to say every part of the pictured uzi(except for the chamber cover where the used bullet ejects from) is non-metallic.

    If a surface is dielectric does that mean it is non-metallic, or more of a 0.5 value?
    For uzis the 'chamber cover' is actually part of the bolt - it's probably cast from steel and likely treated to prevent rust in some way.
    I'm fairly sure the pistol grip is plastic. 

    I'm not fully up on how uzis are put together - forgotten weapons is your friend for this sort of research.. 

    And yeah, dielectric is non-metal as stated abovr

    Thanks, will check the video also.
  • Thanez
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    Thanez greentooth
    Short version:
    Most paints are polymers or acrylics, making them dielectic. Some paints contain impure metals in order to form a cathodic protection making them electic to varying degrees.
    Blueing is sort of a semiconductor, but I would still call it electic. 

    The long version:
    Most paints are dielectic. Some research should reveal whether the paint is cathodic in nature or not.
    In short, if two metals are connected in the same electrical circuit, the most impure metal will rust first. Some paints by design contain impure metals in varying dosages in order to protect the more pure metal or alloys beneath them. Some of them contain up to 95% zinc, which I would call electic. 

    Blueing is a part of the black oxide coating family. All of these methods work by converting the metal to rust (dielectic), then either electrochemically or in blueing's case, dipping it in oil and heating it, converting the rust to magnetite, which is a metal.
    What's special about blueing and what gives it it's bootyful reflections, is that you've filled the steel's natural pores with oil before encasing the entire thing in magnetite. That technically makes blueing a semiconductor, but I would still call it electic, especially since the blueing is so thin that you can actually still see the metal pores underneath. To fully realize this material I would use a spec/gloss workflow to gain greater per pixel control, but you should definitely get away with calling it electic.
  • Eric Chadwick
    Electic or Electric?
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg polycounter
    Electic or Electric?
    There's joke in there somewhere about Dialectics
  • Eric Chadwick
    dyslexic dialectic eclectics? 
  • zachagreg
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    zachagreg polycounter
    Sounds like the name of a metal band ;)
  • radiancef0rge
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    radiancef0rge Polycount Sponsor
    certain car paint jobs

    these are usually standard paint with metallic flecks mixed in.  regardless, is near impossible to represent car paint without a shader that has two specular lobes.  one for the paint, one for the clearcoat.  

    paint on weapons is just paint and should be represented as a nonmetal. 

  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    certain car paint jobs

    these are usually standard paint with metallic flecks mixed in.  regardless, is near impossible to represent car paint without a shader that has two specular lobes.  one for the paint, one for the clearcoat.  

    paint on weapons is just paint and should be represented as a nonmetal. 

     Thank you! Very helpful indeed!
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    Thanez said:
    Short version:
    Most paints are polymers or acrylics, making them dielectic. Some paints contain impure metals in order to form a cathodic protection making them electic to varying degrees.
    Blueing is sort of a semiconductor, but I would still call it electic. 

    The long version:
    Most paints are dielectic. Some research should reveal whether the paint is cathodic in nature or not.
    In short, if two metals are connected in the same electrical circuit, the most impure metal will rust first. Some paints by design contain impure metals in varying dosages in order to protect the more pure metal or alloys beneath them. Some of them contain up to 95% zinc, which I would call electic. 

    Blueing is a part of the black oxide coating family. All of these methods work by converting the metal to rust (dielectic), then either electrochemically or in blueing's case, dipping it in oil and heating it, converting the rust to magnetite, which is a metal.
    What's special about blueing and what gives it it's bootyful reflections, is that you've filled the steel's natural pores with oil before encasing the entire thing in magnetite. That technically makes blueing a semiconductor, but I would still call it electic, especially since the blueing is so thin that you can actually still see the metal pores underneath. To fully realize this material I would use a spec/gloss workflow to gain greater per pixel control, but you should definitely get away with calling it electic.
    Thank you, very informative.
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