[WIP : need feedback] Mercenary Elf

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Notink polycounter lvl 2
Hi everybody,

I just started to model this elf based on a concept by Youngmin Suh that you can find right there :

I will start to post little by little, as I progress and of course any feedback is welcomed to help me.


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  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    The high poly of the body. For now the hair are just here to help but I will replace them later with hair cards since I want to do a real time character.


  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    The retopology of the body


  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    A close-up of the face that I reworked a bit.

  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Some other modifications and the start of the clothes.


  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    I am kind of stuck with the cloak right now and I might need some help to model it with the base pose of my character. For now I have this blocking, but I am not sure if I am going in the right direction.



  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Here are some progresses on the retopology and the first work on the hair's textures. I decided to create the coat when I will have finished the posing.

  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    The posing is done and the baking too. Now it's textures time and the coat will be added after this.


  • Brain_Slave
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    Brain_Slave polygon
    I'm not much of a character artist myself, but I think you've done solid work on this character.

    Topology, body sculpting and bakes are looking nice. And the model is ready for texturing in my opinion. I'll gladly wait for your first results :+1:
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Thank you for your comment @Brain_Slave , texturing is not my strong point but I will try my best ^^
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi insane polycounter
    Face doesn't match the proportions of the concept.  Eyes are lower down the face.  Needs to be cuter.
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    You're right, I will try to correct that, the first time I tried it made the model looks strange but maybe I can stick closer to the concept.
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    I just had time to correct the high poly and low poly at the same time but I am not sure if it is close enough to the concept.


  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    I was not satisfied with what I did earlier so I reworked the face after my classes.


  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8

    pull/flatten the cheek bones back a little (Black), mask out the rim of the eyes a little (Green) to hold the shape while adjusting the cheek.

    fill out here a little (Red),

    soften/smooth inwards here a little (Yellow)
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks a lot @vavavoom for your feedback, I will do the corrections and post them as soon as possible
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Here are the changes so far


  • Nuclear Angel
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    Nuclear Angel interpolator
    Are you going for a stylized character or realistic character? Either way right now your neck is a bit to long. And it looks like she is doing a duck face or something, it would be good if you could relax the mouth a bit.  
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    @Nuclear Angel  For the style I think that I am going for a stylized character, but with some details like the pores or the wrinkles on the lips. Of course, if you have suggestions I will be happy to hear them and to apply them

    For the lips I made some changes I think it looks better, but I am not totally sure


  • Nuclear Angel
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    Nuclear Angel interpolator
    It is clearly better, but what gives it the look it have right now is that the lips are pouted up together and not relaxed. it still looks like she is having some kind of duckface. Look at this pair of lips for example. 


    And when it comes to suggestions I think that you should define the bone structure a bit more. Right now the face is a bit elongated and is missing some with. The cheekbones are the major part that is lacking right now as well as a proper eye socket. Look at something like overwatch, those characters still have a clear bone structure in their faces. 
  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8
    It's looking better,

    BUT!  I think you're making the mistake I always make, which is sculpting at too high detail level without first nailing the forms, general shape and feel of the character.

    I would recommend dropping down a sub division level or two, play around pulling/pushing parts of the face, checking at different angles how its looking and feeling. THEN when you feel you've got what you're looking for, shoot back up that sub division level ladder to work on the finer details.

    Right now, there still seems a lot of slightly off anatomy, especially with regards to the original concept.

    For example, I think the neck seems too thick from the side view. also the head is too pushed forward from the neck.

    go down a sub division level, mask exclude the body and neck, move the head back along the X axis see if you can find a nice balance between neck arch and head position on the neck.

    Push and pull form along the X axis (<----- / ----->) to get a better shape.

    Here's a super quick photoshop smudge tool to give you an idea what im talking about.

    Hope it helps :)


  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    I tried to make the modifications following your feedbacks @Nuclear Angel and @vavavoom but I feel like there are still a lot of things wrong but I can't find where the problems lie.


  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Just a quick update where I followed your corrections @vavavoom for the face and I also changed a bit the neck's size
    And again thanks for all the feedbacks and advices ^^


  • Nuclear Angel
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    Nuclear Angel interpolator
    Notink said:
    I tried to make the modifications following your feedbacks @Nuclear Angel and @vavavoom but I feel like there are still a lot of things wrong but I can't find where the problems lie.

    I believe the major problem is that you do not have a proper bone structure in your sculpt. The cheek bones, nasal bone, jaw line. A lot of the fundamental building blocks of your forms are missing right now. Some you have though, for example the chin and the upper eyesocket, but the eye socket does not seem to connect properly to the cheekbone (Zygomatic) right now. 
    All this adds up and gives your sculpture a uncanny look that is not there imo.

    But you are on a good path, the update on the neck for example i way better than before. The Sternocleidomastoideus though should connect further back on the neck with the sculpt, a bit behind the ear. 
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks a lot @Nuclear Angel for your feedback, I can visualize what I need to do for the Sternocleidomastoideus but I will definitely need to do some researches for the Zygomatic's zone. I think that the temples also need some modifications even if they are not visible for the high poly so my next post might take a little more time.
  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8
    Definitely looking much better!

    Looking more cuter and closer to the concept I think.


    1. move the bottom part of the outer eyelid out and back just a tiny more to give the eye socket a little more curve.
    You MIGHT need to scale down the eyeballs just a tiny bit, I have a feeling they ever so slightly too large, give it a try, see if it helps.

    2. make this a more smoother plane, giving a nice transition to the nose bridge.

    3. move this part down, also adjusting the lips with them.

    As for the forehead, I can't really tell because the hair is hiding the skull shape, but maybe its sloped too far back.
    I suggest either, (A) widen it or (B) push the sides forward more.
    The aim is to give a smoother more fuller shape like in the paintover above.

    AND, the nose, you know the bit in between the two holes, the spetum, pull that down somewhere in the middle. Bring up the bottom of the nostrils ever so slightly, like in the pic below.


    Nose shape and eye curve suggestion:


    Keep going, it's getting better with each improvement.

    Oh, and are you doing all these improvements at the highest sub d level? your model looks very high res and I really recommend switching down even just 1 step while making changes.

    And, lastly, post a pic with no hair if you want help with the skull/forehead shape.

    Hope it helps :)

  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks again @vavavoom for the pictures, it will really help me ^^
    Most of the time I am making my changes on the second or third subdivision level (the first level is the low poly). I am doing my render for my post with the fifth subdivision level but I don't make modifications on this one.
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Another update without the hair to see the skull. I tried to rework the face's structure and improve the rest.


  • vavavoom
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    vavavoom polycounter lvl 8

    Good~)

    1. Smooth this part, it's way too sharp

    2. Try carve a line in the face like this. Not too strong or deep, just to give it a little more definition that separates it from the cheeks.

    Also,

    * Make the jaw a little more forward, try and follow the jaw line in the pic as a guide.

    * Push out the top lip and the part that joins to the septum (try follow the black lines in the side profile paintover pic)

    * push the top of the skull forward some, try and get something like the shape in the paintover pic.


    Also, i'm curious to see the lowest sub div of this head.... if you could post it, it may be really helpful :)

    Oh, and the eyeballs, did you try scaling them down just a little?



  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks again @vavavoom for all the feedback !
    I just made the changes. In order, there is the first level of subdivision, the third and the fifth
    For the eyes, I tried to change the size but they didn't fit anymore so I move them a little backward




  • akiratang
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    akiratang polycounter lvl 6
    Nice its looking pretty close now. I think the eyes are the main problem now , its not bad , might be a tad too large still.
    You can mess around with the eye socket area to perfect it abit more.
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks for the feedback @akiratang ^^ I will try to rework the eyes and the eyelids to make it look better
  • Notink
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    Notink polycounter lvl 2
    Just a small update before going to sleep where I changed a bit the shape of the eyes, I don't really know if it improves the sculpt so I am looking forward to your feedbacks ^^


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