Home Career & Education

Is this job ethical?

Hello thankyou everyone for reading this

My question is that I have been offered a job working for a company that makes graphics for slot machines/pokies. Since gambling can be an addiction do you think it is rite to work at this job? I would like the experience and money but I would hate if it being a gambling job would work against me and look bad on my CV to future employers. 

It is hard decision as I want the job, but I dont want to be contributing to something that can be an addiction for others. I am very lost

Thankyou for your opinions. 

Replies

  • Andreicus
    Offline / Send Message
    Andreicus polycounter lvl 6
    I don't think that it would be a problem for the CV. You will work as an artist not someone trying to attract people inside the building so they spend money.

    Regarding the ethical stuff, in my opinion if a person want to throw their money away at the slots they will do it anyway. It's not that if you don't accept the job people stop playing.
    It's their own decision.

    It may sound cynical but at the end of the day is the truth and can be applied to other stuff that i won't discuss here.
    Also normal videogames can become an addiction too like everything else, WoW and other MMORPG are a great example of this.
    Nowadays a more revelant example would be any mobile game: free to play with microtransactions, companies make millions ( literaly ) because people pay tons of money to have an advantage  ( Clash of Clans ) or to have cosmetic stuff ( Fortnite, Dota ).

    If the pay is good i would accept the job because you will also have something to show on the CV that is related to an artist position.
  • oglu
    Offline / Send Message
    oglu polycount lvl 666
    Take a look in my portfolio everything in there i did professional is gambling. 
    I dont think it does hurt my skill.
  • defragger
    Offline / Send Message
    defragger sublime tool
    I think it's not fair to put free-to-play or mobile games in the same category as casino type gambling. Personally I would not work on this one-armed-bandit stuff but I don't judge others. It's ok to see on a portfolio IMHO.
  • garcellano
    Offline / Send Message
    garcellano greentooth
    That's not bad. Don't see how that would affect you. Same as what @defragger has mentioned, most free-to-play/mobile games have a casino-inspired type method to keep players from wanting to play more. Also, if you look at it in another perspective, Chuck E. Cheese is like the casino for kids lol, and then there's Dave & Busters and Tilt, or any arcade shops, same thing.

    You'll be fine, it's experience. There are so many genres out there that's in games, it's pretty much part of the game dev world; educational games, serious games, music-based games, typing games, military games, etc. 
  • fmnoor
    Offline / Send Message
    fmnoor polycounter lvl 17
    I would like the experience and money but I would hate if it being a gambling job would work against me and look bad on my CV to future employers. 
    It would if you were working there as a designer, since those folks would not necessarily find a fit as a designer on a console game since the skill sets don't really overlap. 


  • Biomag
    Offline / Send Message
    Biomag sublime tool
    defragger said:
    I think it's not fair to put free-to-play or mobile games in the same category as casino type gambling. Personally I would not work on this one-armed-bandit stuff but I don't judge others. It's ok to see on a portfolio IMHO.

    Except my girlfriend got a job as product manager in a free-2-play mobile game studio based on her experience working for casino apps. There is no surprise countries are banning free-2-play mechanics based on gambling laws, since a lot of the ideas behind them are from gambling. The whole market is based on exploiting the 'whales' (if I am not mistaken another term coming from casinos) to pay for the products while the majority of players uses it for free.


    Back to the topic: These days you see a lot of artists working for gambling apps. They are often far easier to get into and they often also overpay since they have a harder time to get people (working for them comes often with quite boring IPs, far simpler productions,... making it harder to attract people). There is probably a stigma, but it isn't much of an issue simply because its the reality of the market. Bigger issue is that you will have to put additional hours after the job to stay on top of developments in technology and workflows, since as mentioned many casino games developers don't need cutting edge graphics - neither do they have the teams to keep up with developments. Doing stylized art it might be less of an issue, but if you have a realistic art style you will have a hard time to have a portfolio that can compete with AAA-productions if you want to switch later on.

    When it comes to addiction - meh, regular games have the same issue. Just because we dislike the gambling products doesn't mean that all users are poor victims, while gamers are all rational and balanced. I've just seen someone 3-4 weeks ago spend roughly € 800,- to purchase items to sell ingame and get ingame currency in a AAA-mmorpg... not certain if that is anywhere near to a sane behavior...
  • defragger
    Offline / Send Message
    defragger sublime tool
    @Biomag : it might be unreasonable behaviour for you but there is a big difference here. Casino type gambling is pure luck. When buying a skin or upgrade in a free-2-play game you know what you are getting upfront and you get exactly what you payed for. In WoT for example you have the option to get a refund if you are not happy with the tank you purchased. I have never seen anyone getting a refund in a casino after they lost on roulette or something. That would be hilarious.

    But on the other hand some games use loot boxes which are proper gambling stuff because you have to buy a key and you could end up with a completely worthless item while having only a small chance to get something out of it. Loot boxes are sadly much more common around full price games and not so much in f2p.

    I think it's important to differentiate!
  • Alex_J
    Offline / Send Message
    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    Well if you look very deeply into anything the only moral choice is to eat rocks until you die, so... just do what you are comfortable with, but even if doing something you are slightly uncomfortable with will propel you into a future in which you'll have more control over the work you are doing, consider making a short term sacrifice for the long term good.
  • Neox
    Offline / Send Message
    Neox godlike master sticky
    I for one would be more okay with working in gambling than working for any military company. Gambling wouldnt be my first choice, but if i had to to make a living, i'd rather do shiney fruits for a slot machine than helping somebody else to kill people.
    If it's your only option to make money and build a good portfolio, go for it.
    If you feel too bad about doing it and you have other options to follow your plan, don't do it.
    I don't think it will be bad in your resume, all that counts is the quality of your work, i don't think any art manager will be against your work if it is good.

    I think this is a question only you can answer for yourself.
  • Two Listen
    Offline / Send Message
    Two Listen polycount sponsor
    Currently working at one such place.  More from happenstance than anything else - they're local, and I didn't actually start working here as an artist, I actually started in tech support several corporate buyouts ago, then went on to working as a tester, then did some design/configuration (database management) stuff, and then eventually they were looking for an illustrator and we were getting nothing but crap portfolios.  So I was like, "Hey I do that."  And here I am.  With far more knowledge about how these businesses operate, how studios evolve, and how slot games work than I ever wanted.

    It's been an interesting experience, I have to work in a style that is completely opposite of everything I put in a portfolio. I have to switch styles pretty regularly to adapt to different IPs that come our way.  I have - for some reason, painted a fucking ass ton of food items for various holidays (thanksgiving, etc), which has effectively been more still life/painting from reference than I have ever done in my life prior to this... to an extent, I've actually come to feel like it's more beneficial than if I were working as a concept artist on something more up my alley - I get a pretty enormous amount of content I have to adapt to, quickly.  I've learned a ton of workflow tricks from coworkers, have made upwards of 200 new brushes to help with this or that, one day I'll be painting some shit for James Bond, the next I'll have to perfectly mimic the Flintstones for IP approval, then I'll have to do some cartoony shit for a "fun, exciting" new feature... then I'll have to make more food.  And half the time I don't know how the assets are even going to be used so I've had to adapt quite a different set of skills to keep things useful in a variety of scenarios.  Pretty different than me just painting pretty pictures for my portfolio where I spawn a canvas and go nuts.

    I don't personally wrestle with the morality of it - but that's because I've seen this evolve over the span of 10 years and I've come to understand that ALL gaming potentially constitutes an addiction.  Spending money on fake coins to play slot machines on your phone isn't any different than spending money on fake farm tools, or boosters, or cosmetic items in your favorite game.  I've seen both sides of the fence - I've seen people who've spent their life savings on fake coins.  And I've seen people who play for free, and it helps them avoid the actual casinos - and so long as they keep just playing for free, it actually helps them out.

    I personally don't care about slots - I've put as much in my annual merit reviews.  I don't even really care if any of the art I do makes it into the game.  I tell my art director - I care about helping my team, doing right by the people who're putting in their best efforts, and so long as I felt like I was able to learn something while making the art I'm happy with it. Even if the feature gets scrapped or it only winds up going live for a day.

    So from my standpoint?  It's resume experience as an artist, it's VERY fast paced and potentially throws you into the far end of iterative game dev, I'm paid reasonably and can give my wife (and adorable dog) the lives they deserve, and I do actually get to learn quite a bit.

    I can't imagine I'll be here forever.  I'm sure eventually I'll try to take a jump into freelance, do work of a vibe that suits me a little more, but for the time being I get paid to paint things and tell other people why their ideas won't work.  And since I'm really not all about moving to a more populated "Game dev hub", kinda think I'd be a fool to turn it down 'cause slots.

    Edit: Oh, and if you're talking real-money slot machines rather than social/F2P mobile/Facebook stuff, 'eh... I mean, I might feel slightly worse about that from a moral standpoint.  But not from an artistic standpoint.

    I highly doubt anyone is going to turn me down because they found out I worked on slot games.  They'll probably turn me down because I am an asshole.  Just gotta make sure the portfolio distracts them from both of these things and I should be golden!
  • Biomag
    Offline / Send Message
    Biomag sublime tool
    defragger said:
    @Biomag : it might be unreasonable behaviour for you but there is a big difference here. Casino type gambling is pure luck. When buying a skin or upgrade in a free-2-play game you know what you are getting upfront and you get exactly what you payed for. In WoT for example you have the option to get a refund if you are not happy with the tank you purchased. I have never seen anyone getting a refund in a casino after they lost on roulette or something. That would be hilarious.

    But on the other hand some games use loot boxes which are proper gambling stuff because you have to buy a key and you could end up with a completely worthless item while having only a small chance to get something out of it. Loot boxes are sadly much more common around full price games and not so much in f2p.

    I think it's important to differentiate!
    I will not go into detail here to not detoriate the thread, but you are just looking at a small mechanic ignoriing the whole construction around it. It would take too much time to get into the topic, but acting like Free-2-Play industry isn't using some of the most shadiest monitization techniques is just outright wrong. Its not about if F2P is gambling, but if the OP shall feel bad about working for a gambling studio. I have heard developers working in both saying that working in gambling they felt more honest than in F2P-games. Let's not forget that gambling is also far more regulated and controlled than the gaming market. Does this mean every studio creating F2P games is morally wrong? No, not at all. Its just more complicated then a simple black and white picture.

    I know also people who go every now and then to the casino knowing exactly what they will get out of it - a few drinks for free and a few hours of fun for the amount of money they are willing to drop - which is actually about the same they would have spent at a bar. You are comparing compuslive gamblers with average gamers. Not everyone going to a casino, playing the lottery or droping money into a slot machine lacks selfcontrol. Even if I don't care for the thrill and don't do it myself, I've stopped caring what people do with their money for fun. Shall we really start discussions about what is morally correct to do with your earnings for fun?

    That's not meant as a starting point for a discussion, just putting some light on the other side of the issue to get an idea what the other point of view might be.
  • TigerCat112
    Thank you all for your comments I appreciate them very much. I know its a question only I can answer myself. But it had been great reading everyones opinions and experiences.

    I think I will accept the job after reading all your kind comments. I feel a small bit bad as it is normally said that the people (mostly old people) who play slot machines are the ones that cant afford it. But I have to keep telling me that not all people who play slot machines are addicts. And really I dont think my art will be part of whether or not someone chooses to plays the slot machine. If they have addiction they will be playing any way. It is the same as being a bartender... not all your customers are alcoholics, but some are. 

    Again many thanks for all your thoughts
Sign In or Register to comment.