"Affordable" 3D software
polycounter lvl 5
Hey everyone,
I have a an issue thats sort of been burning me up for the last couple months.
"Which industry standard 3d package should I devote the most time to learning that isn't going to cost an arm and a leg later on?"
What I'm struggling with is that right now I'm basically just a 3d hobbyist, re-learning and getting back into 3d as its something I thoroughly enjoy doing. If, at some point in the future, I could make a job out of it or do some indie dev work where I apply my 3d knowledge to make a game, then that would be awesome. For now I've set no big expectations and I'm just learning and enjoying creating things. I have a very secure career that I don't hate so I'm not in any huge rush to drastically change my life.
I originally went to school for 3d art over a decade ago and learned how to use Maya around 2007. I got into this other career after school finished, which I am still in. Fast forward to about 6 months ago and I decided to re take up my interest in 3d. Surprisingly, I found I was still massively into it and have really rekindled my old passion. For whatever reason I decided that I would give 3ds max a go this time and was able to get an education license for that.
I have been learning max and really enjoying the workflow over the last while but when I look at how much it actually costs to have a subscription to the package, my anxiety goes through the roof and feel like I should find a cheaper/different solution.
I just can't stand the idea of an expensive subscription, so I have been investigating what else is out there that is cheaper or has perpetual licenses. I have purchased Substance Painter, ZBrush and downloaded Unreal. These are all great, and its good to know I own them now but as for a base 3d package, I am really torn.
I went about trying a few other packages to see if they would work or I liked them. I tried Blender 2.8 and just couldn't come to terms with how vastly different everything feels, hotkeys included. I know I could remap the whole thing but it seems ridiculous to have to do that. I tried Modo for a while but I get a similar feeling to Blender in that its just painful to use. Like, why is even selecting polygons/faces so different? Its hard to just do basic things that should be easy.
I remembered seeing Maya LT on the autodesk site and downloaded that the other day. It has a vastly cheaper subscription model to 3ds max and normal Maya. I spent the last couple days getting comfortable in there. It feels familiar since I used Maya in the past and at least the selection flow is similar to 3ds max. Would have been great if there was a Max LT or something.
I think Maya LT may be what I end up going with as it is so much cheaper and feels better than the other options to me. Does anyone in here use Maya LT, or have any strong feelings for or against it?
I guess I don't want to spend time learning something that I won't be able to use or will be frustrating to use further down the line. I think the most frustrating thing is that I like Max the most and would rather just use it but the sub price is just outa control. Fuckin Autodesk, eh. I'm not against paying for software, I just don't want to pay so much, forever.
I have a an issue thats sort of been burning me up for the last couple months.
"Which industry standard 3d package should I devote the most time to learning that isn't going to cost an arm and a leg later on?"
What I'm struggling with is that right now I'm basically just a 3d hobbyist, re-learning and getting back into 3d as its something I thoroughly enjoy doing. If, at some point in the future, I could make a job out of it or do some indie dev work where I apply my 3d knowledge to make a game, then that would be awesome. For now I've set no big expectations and I'm just learning and enjoying creating things. I have a very secure career that I don't hate so I'm not in any huge rush to drastically change my life.
I originally went to school for 3d art over a decade ago and learned how to use Maya around 2007. I got into this other career after school finished, which I am still in. Fast forward to about 6 months ago and I decided to re take up my interest in 3d. Surprisingly, I found I was still massively into it and have really rekindled my old passion. For whatever reason I decided that I would give 3ds max a go this time and was able to get an education license for that.
I have been learning max and really enjoying the workflow over the last while but when I look at how much it actually costs to have a subscription to the package, my anxiety goes through the roof and feel like I should find a cheaper/different solution.
I just can't stand the idea of an expensive subscription, so I have been investigating what else is out there that is cheaper or has perpetual licenses. I have purchased Substance Painter, ZBrush and downloaded Unreal. These are all great, and its good to know I own them now but as for a base 3d package, I am really torn.
I went about trying a few other packages to see if they would work or I liked them. I tried Blender 2.8 and just couldn't come to terms with how vastly different everything feels, hotkeys included. I know I could remap the whole thing but it seems ridiculous to have to do that. I tried Modo for a while but I get a similar feeling to Blender in that its just painful to use. Like, why is even selecting polygons/faces so different? Its hard to just do basic things that should be easy.
I remembered seeing Maya LT on the autodesk site and downloaded that the other day. It has a vastly cheaper subscription model to 3ds max and normal Maya. I spent the last couple days getting comfortable in there. It feels familiar since I used Maya in the past and at least the selection flow is similar to 3ds max. Would have been great if there was a Max LT or something.
I think Maya LT may be what I end up going with as it is so much cheaper and feels better than the other options to me. Does anyone in here use Maya LT, or have any strong feelings for or against it?
I guess I don't want to spend time learning something that I won't be able to use or will be frustrating to use further down the line. I think the most frustrating thing is that I like Max the most and would rather just use it but the sub price is just outa control. Fuckin Autodesk, eh. I'm not against paying for software, I just don't want to pay so much, forever.
Replies
From my understanding, Maya and 3DS Max are basically the standard for everything when it comes to game art. If you hope to find career opportunities somewhere down the road, you'll definitely want to be familiar with one, if not both, software packages.
I guess its the idea that I get so committed and ingrained into a piece of software that when it comes to the end of the educational license it will be like I'm stuck in it and end up paying this massive fee or needing to make the switch to something else anyways (so why not put those efforts into something else now.). Its kind of like Autodesk is a drug dealer getting you hooked on something for free for 3 years and then they're like "oh, you know that thing you've had for free this whole time, well it now costs $3k/year, forever."
On the flip side, if I do find that Maya LT will do everything I need it to, then I could get just as ingrained in that over the next few years and then feel ok about paying the $250/year fee. So, maybe I'm just curious about opinions on Maya LT being used for games/professionally?
Its also entirely possible that I'm overthinking this whole thing as well.
Become adaptable and learn another program, the first week jitters or confusion goes away very quickly. You'll learn the hotkeys and shortcuts just as fast and will soon become muscle memory. Personally speaking I used Maya in school and hated it but I was proficient with it in terms of use. At work I use Max, at home I use Max/Blender depends on whether I am doing freelance or not. Zbrush is about the most headachey thing IMO just from a pure UI standpoint and that every tool functions differently. Still I need it and I learned it.
The easiest thing to do for me is find a prop or small project and after some experimentation with a software make the entire prop, full workflow in that program. Keep working until you get stuck. If you don't like a hotkey change it. Wondering if it has a feature? Look it up but keep working on the small project. At the end if you felt as if you were fairly productive and weren't met with wall after wall of application frustration that may be the software for you. If you were try a different one and so on.
Essentially we can't give you a straight forward answer on this because what works best for you may not work best for me or anyone else. If you are efficient and work well one way see which software allows the greatest freedom of expression in that way.
That being said @defragger is right just use Modo.
Well ... not really. Like any other software, all one needs to do is to learn where the commands are located first and foremost (or, how to call them through the hotbox). And then decide wether to adopt some or all of the default hotkeys - or customize them as needed.
This legend about Blender shortuts really has to be put down to rest once and for all - all it does is preventing new users to get into the program...
It makes the quality of life for modelers are lot easier from the get go. I switched from Maya to Modo for most of my modeling needs.
One other DCC avenue I don't think yet mentioned, is procedualism. Houdini despite it's foray into gamesdev over recent years has yet to capture a solid adoption rate enjoyed by established parametric solutions at the moment but I foresee a gradual metric shift with each trunk version update.
Anyway, the free Apprentice licence IMO is well worth a cursory look at the very least, though it's heavily biased nodal workflow will be a particular challenge getting your head around at first.
Cheers.
In case of maya its no problem to use LT for now.
I think I'm going to do like zachagreg suggested and just try to model my way through some small props with a few different programs and then see which one gave me the least trouble. I tried that today and modeled a zippo lighter in Maya LT without any hassle and am fairly happy with how it is turning out. Its funny how much is the same as when I went to school using Maya 11 years ago.
Like Spag_Eddy said, I really don't have to worry about it until I actually try to make a living doing this stuff and the ideas will be the same no matter the program. I do want to be adaptable though as well so it is pretty fun/interesting trying a few different programs right now anyways.
Its annoying that I don't feel as comfortable in Modo and Blender since they would both fit the affordable requirement. I did see that Blender 2.8 is planning on having an Industry Standard keybind though, so maybe that will make me switch to Blender when they release that since the defaults trip me up so much.
Thanks again.
Of all the major packages max is probably the fastest to operate out of the box with no customisation or hot key usage.
Everything is context sensitive and no more than a couple of clicks away (using a button with words on it) via quad menus or the modifier panel.
Maya is a total clusterfuck in comparison, modo is not, silo is lovely even if nobody uses it.
Blender is a fucking nightmare if you're used to proper software but it's not shit. Like Zbrush, if you're prepared to watch enough YouTube you can pick it up and run very effectively but you're fucked of you want to try and work it out for yourself.
To the OP. Use blender, it's free and it won't do you any harm at all.
Again - the only thing that is indeed a trip is the default *navigation*, which if fixable by following this :
All the other default shortcuts are 100% irrelevant since just like in any other program with customizable shortcuts, it's up to the user to edit them at will. And there is no such thing as an "industry standard" for shortcuts beyond navigation controls and maybe QWER. Beyond that It doesn't matter one bit if the default shortcut for extrude is ctrl-e, alt-shft-e, ctrl-p, or anything else for that matter. Heck - I use Photoshop daily for hours and I have no clue what some/most of the default hotkeys are - because I changed them to something that fits my workflow years ago
So, again : don't bother learning a single default shortcut and don't put hopes into any so called "industry standard" keymap coming later - this stuff is pointless. Just learn the program through its menus and quicksearch field, using only that for a few weeks. Then when the time is right start assigning any shortcut you want to any tool you want. That's it.
A subscription to Sky for the TV costs 60 € per month here in Italy, just saying.
I'm using Maya LT for creating assets to sell ( although I'm testing out houdini indie lately and maybe I'll switch) and i'll tell you that it has everything you need for game dev, the only feature that i'm missing is the cloth simulation.
Also when people say that Maya is slow they probably used only the top menu. Maya is not slow at all, you can choose between 3-4 different methods of workflow: hotkeys, classical top menu, context sensitive menu+hotbox menu ( what i use that is very fast and allow you to work full screen and i don't need to remember the hotkeys ) and modeling toolkit.
Talking about Maya LT i think that is also way more convenient than other solutions out there, i'll make some examples and all the prices include VAT in €:
Modo: perpetual priced at 1620 € than if you want the updates you must pay 360 € for the maintenance every year, if you miss a year you will pay 540 €.
No indie version because they removed it.
So if you buy it it's the same as paying Maya LT for 5 years ( 1600/311 ) but you probably want to update your software after a couple of years so you must pay another 540 € that is the equivalent of 1 year and a half of Maya LT more or less.
Cinema 4D: from 1000 € for Prime to 3800 € for Studio. The only version that has cloth simulation is Studio otherwise your best bet is Prime that has more or less the same features of Maya LT but Maya has all the tools for the various games stuff like UE workflow, Nvidia Physx etc.
Maintenance ( MSA ) is based on the version.
No indie version.
So let's say you buy Prime, that is the same as paying Maya LT for 3 years ( 1000/311 ) and then you have the MSA that for prime is around 200 € every year.
If you buy Studio is the same as paying Maya LT for 12 years+ MSA 500 € per year.
Lightwave: ....1k €
Houdini: perpetual of the Core version ( no FX module ) at 1770 € + 771 € for maintenance every year or in the case of Houdini FX we are talking about 3980 € + 2208 € for maintenance.
There is an indie version that is very affordable and also very good because it has all the features of the normal version, the only limitation is that you can't make more than 100k USD per year.
It is rental only and costs 238 € for 1 year or 353 € for 2 year. Very convenient but modeling in Houdini is slow, it is good for procedural stuff and FX but regarding direct modeling is not very good but not for the amount of tools or features but for the fact that is slow.
With that said if you like it go for it, it is probably the most convenient out there.
Blender: Free and it's good but you have to like it's peculiar workflow and hotkeys and also in my opinion, UV mapping is inferior to Maya because Maya has Unfold that makes everything easy and some stuff are clunkier than Maya like moving the pivot where you want etc.
I think that the best options out there for indies, assets creators and similar are: Maya LT, Houdini Indie and Blender.
If you want to try out Houdini for modeling i advise you to check out the Direct Modeling Plugin: https://gumroad.com/alexeyvanzhula that speed up the process a lot and has some cool features like Smooth Booleans that is similar to Mesh Fusion or HardMesh plugin for Maya.
If you use Maya LT be sure to check out the Ninja Dojo plugin, it's written in Mel so it works in Maya LT and it has some cool features like fracture, creating tubes from spline etc: http://www.bk3d.com/Ninja_Dojo/