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is there a grand syllabus of things self taught 3d artists should go through?

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oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7
this may sound vague or 'how long is a piece of string'

just wondering if there is a website somewhere which lists in all the things you should learn.

rather than focusing on software preferences, Im interested in actual universal techniques we should know about.

for example, I have spent the last year focusing on hard surface modelling. Yesterday someone suggested I look at UV straightening, which was a concept completely new to me. I was aware of some of the aspects of it but I didnt realise that it was a thing, someone else mentioned hard edges, which is something I use when making high poly models but again I learnt it from watching livestreams and I didnt know it was called that.


other example of something I just found out about is greeble,

so rather than randomly discovering things to learn about i think a list of things in order, would be ideal.


I don't think the polycount wiki covers this.

any suggestions?


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  • arnov
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    arnov polycounter lvl 6
    I don't think there's anything like it (but wouldnt mind to be proven wrong). It also depends what you want to do, different models require different approach.
    I'm pretty sure if you follow some beginner friendly tutorials (from modelling to texturing) then those concepts should naturally be explained.

    This is a great example  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9wgKy-F1Rw
  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    stop looking for people to tell you what to do, and learn how to figure things out on your own. This is what's going to make you more valuable than others who won't. 

    To discover the answers to almost any question, you only need two tools. Hopefully you learned them in grade school. First is the scientific method. This shows you how to ask questions the right way and how to factor in ignorance so you don't think you've found an answer when you haven't. Second is basic algebra. You don't need to memorize the equations or the multiplication table. You just need to understand the basic logic. If I know x, how do I isolate it to figure out it's real value? This is the basic logic that will guide your google searching and your troubleshooting. Very simple but powerful stuff. It's all you need. Two tools to do every job. Beyond that, you only need patience.

    if you make a thread and share you process for making your art, people will chime in and help guide you if it looks like you are doing anything really crazy. You are not totally alone.

    90% of the knowledge you'll need is indeed there on the wiki. the rest is just scattered around, but google makes it pretty easy to find. If you hard surfaced modeled for a year without learning the common practices of the craft, shame on you. You need to spend more time studying. Learn everything you can from others first before you go into the woods on your own. You remember that kid who went into the alaska wilderness, starved, and then died of poisoning from a bad plant? Yeah, somebody wrote in a book about that plant. Don't eat this plant. It's poisonous. He just failed to read it.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    There are some early things that people CAN tell you to do that specifically will bleed to almost all your future artwork

    Fine art basics of design (this will involve composition, value theory, etc.)

    Still life drawing

    Observational drawing

    Figure Drawing

    Color theory

    Painting
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7
    arnov said:
    I don't think there's anything like it (but wouldnt mind to be proven wrong). It also depends what you want to do, different models require different approach.
    I'm pretty sure if you follow some beginner friendly tutorials (from modelling to texturing) then those concepts should naturally be explained.

    This is a great example  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9wgKy-F1Rw


    of course different models require a different approach but Im talking about compiling a list of all the relevant techniques for each discipline, hard surfice modelling, organic modelling, baking, texturing, animating, etc etc,

    online tutorials are great, loads of them out there, but you have no idea what techniques you will come across so its not exactly the best way of padding out your knowledge, for example that video you linked is called 'blade tutorial', but I already know how to make a knife, because im not a beginner, and the description isnt tempting either: 'Scene setup, low and highpoly modeling, unwrapping and exporting the files over to Substance Painter' because I know how to all of those things. if you spend your time going through each tutorial you will find yourself going over stuff you already know.

    There are some early things that people CAN tell you to do that specifically will bleed to almost all your future artwork

    Fine art basics of design (this will involve composition, value theory, etc.)

    Still life drawing

    Observational drawing

    Figure Drawing

    Color theory

    Painting




    maybe so, but my point is specifically on 3d design, I've already got lots of (helpful) qualifications and years of experience in traditional arts including life drawing, and my question is not in any way related to visual aesthetic but production and workflow. all my years toiling away with paint brushes and gesso will not magically make artifacts disappear on a mesh Im making, if that makes any sense.

  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    ' because I know how to all of those things



     this is the entire problem in a nutshell right there. You've got to stop saying "I know," and start with "I don't know." 

    You can skim through the parts of a tutorial that are redundant. But there is always something useful to learn. Maybe in an entire 5 hours long tutorial its all stuff you already know, but in one key part the instructor mentions something about UV's you didnt know. So you go and you google that. And all of a sudden you realize you were missing a major chunk of knowledge. 

    This is how you self learn. You just fucking eat everything. Like a whale. And thhen you let your work filter out the bad from the good. And you come here and other kind and generous people help you filter more.

  • Taylor Brown
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7
    is this your work? its pretty cool. i will give this read.
  • Taylor Brown
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    Taylor Brown ngon master
    no sir, i can not take credit. that would go to this guy - https://www.artstation.com/johnemerson
  • arnov
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    arnov polycounter lvl 6
    oraeles77 said:

    of course different models require a different approach but Im talking about compiling a list of all the relevant techniques for each discipline, hard surfice modelling, organic modelling, baking, texturing, animating, etc etc,

    online tutorials are great, loads of them out there, but you have no idea what techniques you will come across so its not exactly the best way of padding out your knowledge, for example that video you linked is called 'blade tutorial', but I already know how to make a knife, because im not a beginner, and the description isnt tempting either: 'Scene setup, low and highpoly modeling, unwrapping and exporting the files over to Substance Painter' because I know how to all of those things. if you spend your time going through each tutorial you will find yourself going over stuff you already know.




    Uhh, you said you spend 1 year focusing on hard surface modelling, but you didnt know basic stuff like uv straighening and hard edges, meanwhile 1 beginner tutorial explaines most of the stuff you need for hardsurface modelling and you still think "I know how to all of those things". 

    Everyone knows how to model a knife and I'm pretty sure most of the poeple know what is the process of low,high modelling, unwrapping, but thats not the reason I linked the video.  
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7
    arnov said:
    oraeles77 said:

    of course different models require a different approach but Im talking about compiling a list of all the relevant techniques for each discipline, hard surfice modelling, organic modelling, baking, texturing, animating, etc etc,

    online tutorials are great, loads of them out there, but you have no idea what techniques you will come across so its not exactly the best way of padding out your knowledge, for example that video you linked is called 'blade tutorial', but I already know how to make a knife, because im not a beginner, and the description isnt tempting either: 'Scene setup, low and highpoly modeling, unwrapping and exporting the files over to Substance Painter' because I know how to all of those things. if you spend your time going through each tutorial you will find yourself going over stuff you already know.




    Uhh, you said you spend 1 year focusing on hard surface modelling, but you didnt know basic stuff like uv straighening and hard edges, meanwhile 1 beginner tutorial explaines most of the stuff you need for hardsurface modelling and you still think "I know how to all of those things". 

    Everyone knows how to model a knife and I'm pretty sure most of the people know what is the process of low,high modelling, unwrapping, but thats not the reason I linked the video.  

    well obviously Im a bit shit.
    for example 1 year ago I didnt even know about edge splitting or other related stuff. I spent my first few years on/off doing rendering for some interior designers who didnt give a rats ass about my UV maps the rare times I was asked to actually make something.
    i knew hard edges, i just didnt know it had a name. regarding UV straightening, Im still not sure if its just a preference for using space more efficiently or it 'speeds' something up [and please if anyone is reading this lets not discuss that further here cause its off topic!].  most of the tutorials I followed years ago (which are now out of date anyway it appears) on topics of curved geometry would encourage as few seams as possible and I lapped up that stuff.  my point being I keep going over stuff and seeing things I didnt know in subjects I thought I should, so some sort of big list of stuff helps.such as that link Taylor Brown mentioned, more of that sort of stuff please.
  • Eric Chadwick
    I've attempted parts of this in our wiki.
    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Texture_Baking

    It tends to turn into a big undertaking, but I suggest you do the same. By writing things down, you quickly realize where your gaps are. Which focuses the search.
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7
    I've attempted parts of this in our wiki.
    http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Texture_Baking

    It tends to turn into a big undertaking, but I suggest you do the same. By writing things down, you quickly realize where your gaps are. Which focuses the search.
    if it would help others then I would definately do this, however I never thought people enjoyed hearing my opinions.
  • sacboi
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    sacboi high dynamic range
    just wondering if there is a website somewhere which lists in all the things you should learn

    For games?...here at PC, of course! :D

    ...and if the technicalities of the thing are hanging you up, try spending some time prowling around the Technical Forums because you'll find a vertible encyclopedic knowledge base just ripe for picking, covering most if not all aspects relevant to games dev.

    EDIT:
    Do you actually care about what people think?! 

    Just concentrate on what matters too you and execute that rather than expend uneccessary energies pondering your popularity status.
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7
    sacboi said:


    EDIT:
    Do you actually care about what people think?! 

    Just concentrate on what matters too you and execute that rather than expend uneccessary energies pondering your popularity status.
    I care what potental employers think, cause they have a thing called money and they pay that out to people who work for them.
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    Honestly, the Polycount Wiki is a good place for this grand syllabus then.  Or at least it has topics that you need to look at for 3D foundations in game art.

    As you work on projects or new terms comes up, run it through the wiki and see what connects and relates.
  • Eric Chadwick
    oraeles77 said:.
    if it would help others then I would definately do this, however I never thought people enjoyed hearing my opinions.

    Don't do it for others. Do it for yourself. Later, if it's good enough, THEN you could share it.
  • JEmerson
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    JEmerson polycounter lvl 7
    oraeles77 said:
    is this your work? its pretty cool. i will give this read.
    I just happened to notice this being mentioned (I made that). In regards to your initial question @oraeles77, there is a plethora of knowledge on the Polycount wiki as well as in the google and youtube wild. However, as a self taught artist as well, I can appreciate your desire for a more "controlled" process document and/or checklist that, in essence, follows a path of increasing knowledge. It is partly for that reason that I began putting together and maintaining my own wiki to supplement what is available on Polycount's wiki. I suggest you try that in addition to the Polycount wiki (it is not intended to replace Polycount; nor will it ever @Eric Chadwick ;) ). The other thing I would mention is that you need to just dive into things sometimes to start problem solving, and this may include tutorials (paid or unpaid) to understand a critical component. For example, I would not understand the technical aspects of lighting in Unreal but for several paid tutorials and subscriptions-regardless of artistic choices regarding lighting, value and subject importance.

    A thought process you should consider as well is creating your own wiki and/or writing things down to further solidify technical concepts in your mind. This can range from simple free hand, to flow charts (like I created in that graph), or to other methods such as a kanban style board to see how various functions line up simultaneously.
  • Alex_J
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    Alex_J grand marshal polycounter
    That seems like a great idea, physically wrtiting down everything you think that you know right now. Then breaking it down outline style, trying to fit in all the details beneath each major category. If OP did that, presented it here, it would be pretty easy for people to help fill in the holes, which would essentially then give the "grand syllabus" they are looking for.
  • oraeles77
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    oraeles77 polycounter lvl 7

    Sigmafie said:
    oraeles77 said:
    is this your work? its pretty cool. i will give this read.
    I just happened to notice this being mentioned (I made that). In regards to your initial question @oraeles77, there is a plethora of knowledge on the Polycount wiki as well as in the google and youtube wild. However, as a self taught artist as well, I can appreciate your desire for a more "controlled" process document and/or checklist that, in essence, follows a path of increasing knowledge. It is partly for that reason that I began putting together and maintaining my own wiki to supplement what is available on Polycount's wiki. I suggest you try that in addition to the Polycount wiki (it is not intended to replace Polycount; nor will it ever @Eric Chadwick ;) ). The other thing I would mention is that you need to just dive into things sometimes to start problem solving, and this may include tutorials (paid or unpaid) to understand a critical component. For example, I would not understand the technical aspects of lighting in Unreal but for several paid tutorials and subscriptions-regardless of artistic choices regarding lighting, value and subject importance.

    A thought process you should consider as well is creating your own wiki and/or writing things down to further solidify technical concepts in your mind. This can range from simple free hand, to flow charts (like I created in that graph), or to other methods such as a kanban style board to see how various functions line up simultaneously.

    thanks I will give this a detailed read.
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