Schools and networking
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Hi everyone,
I thought to start a new topic, because the previous one took a bit of a detour from the original content 
My main issue is that I began the Game art program at Vanarts, but I won't be able to finish it because of financial issues. This is very concerning, given the fact that this school is really exclusive and only 20 people make it every year. We'd make a game at the end of the course with my classmates, which would be an extremely cool project.
However, since I need to leave, I have some concerns. I've been hearing in almost every presentations at Gnomon, Full Sail, GDC and all those channels, that networking is huge, and all those people who were attending those iconic schools are now working with those people who were their classmates back at school. They say, that getting a job in the industry would be impossible without knowing those people, because it's a very small industry. But since I need to leave the school, and I'll take an online course, I'll miss this direct network-building part.
So, my question is, if it was really true? Companies will not consider someone, who they don't know but just apply for the posted position?
Thank so much for all the feedback in advance. I'd be an immense help for me, because I'm currently sitting on the fence. I very v and confused and don't know what to do...
Replies
Thank you so much for your comment. Your opinion consoled me to a great extent.
Ask for advice. Get advice. Consider advice. Also consider that advice given by students is going to lack perspective and experience.
Then....
Stop thinking about the future, and focus on the work right now. The loop stops there, at least until you've got some work finished.
I agree on focusing on art, CGMA should be a good option to iron out fundamentals and process workflows.
Yeah, I'd go with cheapest way to learn first, then apply for jobs. That's just me, but I think me and OP both live a bit secluded from artist communities, so I think it's a practical approach.
If that fails, then branch out more, spend some money traveling, meeting people, etc.
Thanks for your comment. I think you misunderstood me a little bit.
However, you're right on focusing on the work, period. But without thinking of the future, I don't know what to focus on
Thank you for the response. Yes, you're seeing my intention. I'm not worried about the quality of online education, but the other thing concerns me a little bit. I'm just a rookie, who wants to be a 3d artist and work on games, so don't have too much inside on how things work in this industry. That's why I'm here and seeking for advice.
Thanks for your comment. Sorry if the main question was a bit ambiguous.
Maybe you'll find after a few months you prefer the more structured approach of school, which is fine, but I've been studying 3d art for one year now and put maaaaybe a total of $1k into it. This is including the programs and tutorials and 3d models and such. My work so far isn't brilliant or anything, but it's certainly up to par with some work you find from 2 year college students, so I think I'm doing something right.
Anyway, just a left-field alternative to consider. Poor people got to help each other out.
Thank you for your comment. I've been self-educating myself for half a year so far. I think that I've achieved quite a lot, because I've learned so much about 3d modeling, texturing, painting, UV-udim workflow, baking, lighting, and all that stuff. However, I've reached a certain point where I'm stuck. I know that I need to know much more, and you can't find everything on the web. In addition, the structured approach is another big thing, that you have mentioned too. Nowadays, I feel that even if I know what my goal is, I can't find the correct path to follow. I don't know what to look into, what to learn and practice. And finally, another important thing is the feedback. When you're taking a course, which is instructed by industry professionals, they can give useful pointers on what you need to improve.
Good luck!
the main benefit of having a dope network is a lot of times word of mouth or referrals are like gold. you can hear about positions before they are publicly posted and having someone you know on the inside can put you on the fast track. almost every job i have gotten is from some sort of referral or former colleague hooking me up because of our past relationship.
If you want to spend some time networking, I would do it outside of school anyways for the most part. go to meetup.com events that are industry related or local siggraph events and show up early for the cocktail mixer and introduce yourself to random people. no one is gonna bite, and you probably have something in common to chat about. booze is a good social lubricant, especially for people in our industry who can tend to be more socially awkward or introverted. the main thing is to make an effort and get outside of your apartment
there are polycount meetups as well which can be a great place to meet people, or even sending linkedin and artstation DM's asking for advice and critiques to start building relationships with people.
a huge hack is to find some way you can bring value to the other people instead of looking at what you can get from them, especially if its someone higher up the chain in a studio or art position you want. you have to be genuine about it though and expect nothing back, do that for 10-20 people and good things should start to happen.
Thank you for your comment. from what you've just said, the only thing I can deduct is that networking is very important in this industry to an extent that people can 'steal' jobs from others, who might be a better fit, but they wouldn't have a chance. This is really sad, but somewhat understandable. If you know someone well, then it's logical to offer them a position before posting it in public.
However, your advice on going out is right, and believe me that I'd do that all. The thing here is that I'm leaving Canada next week and I'm gonna go back to my homeland, Hungary, where this industry literally doesn't exist. No companies, no communities, no meetups etc. The only way I could do it is to attend events which are held somewhere else in Europe. I would gladly do that too, but believe me when I tell you that my financials are finite, and after paying off the tuition for my course, I won't have so much money left. And earning the price of a flight ticket in Hungary is really difficult, plus building a portfolio in the meantime. It's a vicious circle, and money has always erected a big wall ahead of me.
Anyway, thank you so much for your comment. I really appreciate all those useful pointers. I promise, that I'm gonna do what you advised once I'll have learned more and got much better.
so yea, relationships can be a huge part of the equation.
as for living in Hungary.....well CD Project Red is right next door in Krakow, and they are hiring for cyberpunk 2077, and there is always ubisoft in bucharest. I would look at the studios in the countries a quick train or cheap flight away that surround you and hammer hard on matching the art style of the ones that appeal to you.
I can completely agree with you. I would also always choose a decent person rather than a d*ick, regardless of how expert he is. Making games is a team effort, and when someone cannot collaborate effectively, it can hurt the entire project.
As for your suggestions on the studios, yeah, CPR is right next door, and working there would be a real dream coming true for me. I loved the Witcher series, one of, if not the best RPG games I've ever played. But because they are really good, so many people want to work there. So in order to get in, I need to hit a AAA quality with my portfolio, which currently stands on level 0
Once you are in the industry its definitely different.
For the other topic - Europe has quite a lot of studios. Brexit might be interesting to keep an eye on because of the visa situation and the mess it might cause. Still eastern Europe has cheap costs of living, so its a good place for tech companies to settle. Working myself for an outsourcing studio in Poland and my pay is pretty much western standard with far lower costs of living than I had in Austria. This is quite an advantage for EU citizens compared to oversees where the costs of living can't differ as much between regions - it makes these countries a win-win for comanies and employees. Especially when a company doesn't want to deal with language and cultural barries further east. Poland for example is going through a IT boom at the moment. For other options you also have a mobile hub in Helsinki and Sweden has a lot of studios in Malmö and Stockholm. Not to mention the several studios Ubisoft has all over the place and other big studios in western Europe.
Thanks for your comment. You gave me so many useful tips and hints. Thank you for that!
By the way, the Brexit stuff is something I had totally ignored, until you mentioned it. It could really be a huge pain, because the UK is almost the only promising market in this field. Okay, I know that big studios also have branches in Sweden, and there's CPR in Poland. But their recruiting rate is still pretty vague compared to the UK. I don't know how it will go, but one thing's for sure: when I'll have an acceptable portfolio, UK will not be the member of the EU, which is quite concerning
2 things:
1. Yes, GB has the highest desinty, but it also isn't the holy land for games in Europe. The biggest advantage they have is you don't have to move far and they speak English. It comes though with a price - far more competition and bad contracts especially in London area.
2. Brexit could be a longterm blessing for the EU gameing industry - the harder the exit the better it probably will be. One of the big reasons for going to GB as a company was access to EU market AND labor. WIthout both you get higher taxes in all import/export related things and they lose easy access to foreign workers as all of a sudden visa are a thing - and visas come with costs and time issues for companies. Let's not forget immigration was the big reason why most voted for Brexit, so a soft exit without changes to the labor market would make the whole thing pointless. With the uncertainties that are up in the air right now and the lack of progress it makes GB not really an attractive target for investment. I also think I am not the only one with a girlfriend who didn't want to apply in GB as you don't know what the visa situation is going to be in one year, especially if the partner doesn't find a job in the meantime. The question remaining is how the Brexit will affect the existing visas, probably GB will have to give in, but as said before how will it affect family members or partners that are not married no one knows. Too many uncertanties to make GB attractive in the short and long run - and Paris, Frankfurt, Dublin as well as others are getting ready to lure a lot of IT out of GB with taxes and other incentitives.
On the other hand a soft Brexit won't change much to the previous situation. Either way I think it isn't going to be a big thing for new employees. Those hit the hardest will be the companies itself and those already working there.
Thank you for your response. Yes, I think you're right in all of your statements. Networking might not be a game-changer for a junior, but once you get in and do your job well, people will notice that. And you'll also have all the other artists around you, so you'll have connections.
As for GB and Brexit, you kind of enlightened me. Thank you for that!
Anyway, hopefully, it won't be us, the employees, who really need to worry about all this stuff. I'm a Hungarian, so a foreigner to all the studios. So, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, where I'll go, I'll face this issue anyway. Except within EU, of course
Thank you for your comment. It was very useful and constructive. I'm so grateful for how you went into the details while describing the situation. However, from what you just said, I feel that I have a little bit of a 'handicap', since I won't be in a school, so I won't have all those opportunities you've listed. So I need to make use of the internet
By the way, I didn't register to this page, because I want to take advantage of that. I just wanted a platform where there are other people who have the same interests, taste and passionate about the same thing than me. This is something that I don't have in my immediate, physical surroundings at home. And I've always considered FB and Instagram a platform for useful posts, since all that I can see is teenage girls posting their breakfast coffee and movie tickets they got for the weekend. I've never thought that those media are also a place for people who want to do some business, or more serious stuff. So, Thanks for the pointers once again!
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"They say, that getting a job in the industry would be impossible without knowing those people, because it's a very small industry. But since I need to leave the school, and I'll take an online course, I'll miss this direct network-building part.
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I think a lot of people (these speakers included) are operating on a fallacy without realizing it. Sure, a very good artist knowing another very good artist will vouch for that person during the hiring process. But these two people are not vouching for each other because they randomly met at a so-called "networking event" with beer and pizzas and found out they like the same baseball team - they trust each other because they recognize each other's skills. It may sound elitist, but that's really the way it is. That said there is absolutely nothing unfair here because anyone can get to a fantastic skill level by working hard, putting in the hours, and staying focused.
Now of course just like in any other industries there are always going to be some cases of buddies hiring buddies. But unlike other fields it is not really possible to "fake it until you make it" here - except maybe for very low-skill, repetitive grunt work.
Here's an extreme example : Kim Jun Gi wasn't networking much when he was a virtually unknown art teacher working at a virtually unknown art school in South Korea. But fast-forward a few years and he is now world-famous and has "connections" in every game studio he toured at. I can guarantee you that he didn't get there by strategically becoming the beer buddy of this or that person.
Thank you for your response. I was feeling to receive the ultimate enlightenment while reading your lines. This makes the picture crystal clear to me. I have always been assuming that, since it's a performance-driven industry, studios won't hire someone who they know, when they can find another artist who might be way better at his craft. And when I was at school, and we started to discuss certain topics, we mentioned artist to each other. For instance, we were talking about human anatomy and Zbrush, everyone knew who Rafael Grassetti is, even though no one has ever met him.
So yeah, skill is above everything. Thank you for your comment once again!
Thank you for your comment. I've been self-educating myself for half a year so far. I think that I've achieved quite a lot, because I've learned so much about 3d modeling, texturing, painting, UV-udim workflow, baking, lighting, and all that stuff. However, I've reached a certain point where I'm stuck. I know that I need to know much more, and you can't find everything on the web. In addition, the structured approach is another big thing, that you have mentioned too. Nowadays, I feel that even if I know what my goal is, I can't find the correct path to follow. I don't know what to look into, what to learn and practice. And finally, another important thing is the feedback. When you're taking a course, which is instructed by industry professionals, they can give useful pointers on what you need to improve. Sometimes they can point out things that might have never thought about.
Thank you for your comment. I've been self-educating myself for half a year so far. I think that I've achieved quite a lot, because I've learned so much about 3d modeling, texturing, painting, UV-udim workflow, baking, lighting, and all that stuff. However, I've reached a certain point where I'm stuck. I know that I need to know much more, and you can't find everything on the web. In addition, the structured approach is another big thing, that you have mentioned too. Nowadays, I feel that even if I know what my goal is, I can't find the correct path to follow. I don't know what to look into, what to learn and practice. And finally, another important thing is the feedback. When you're taking a course, which is instructed by industry professionals, they can give useful pointers on what you need to improve. Sometimes they can point out things that might have never thought about.