Schools and networking

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Blazs91 null
Hi everyone,

I thought to start a new topic, because the previous one took a bit of a detour from the original content :smile:

My main issue is that I began the Game art program at Vanarts, but I won't be able to finish it because of financial issues. This is very concerning, given the fact that this school is really exclusive and only 20 people make it every year. We'd make a game at the end of the course with my classmates, which would be an extremely cool project.

However, since I need to leave, I have some concerns. I've been hearing in almost every presentations at Gnomon, Full Sail, GDC and all those channels, that networking is huge, and all those people who were attending those iconic schools are now working with those people who were their classmates back at school. They say, that getting a job in the industry would be impossible without knowing those people, because it's a very small industry. But since I need to leave the school, and I'll take an online course, I'll miss this direct network-building part. 

So, my question is, if it was really true? Companies will not consider someone, who they don't know but just apply for the posted position?

Thank so much for all the feedback in advance. I'd be an immense help for me, because I'm currently sitting on the fence. I very v and confused and don't know what to do...

Replies

  • Popol
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    Popol polycounter lvl 7
    I'll be honest with you, networking is overrated. Of course, Gnomon, Full Sail and GDC will say that it is important because this is how they make money but the number one thing that will get you a job is your portfolio.

    Companies will never not consider someone just because they don't know them. How the hell are they supposed to find a good candidate then?

    So, no more overthinking and let's make some art, god damn it!

  • Blazs91
    Popol said:
    I'll be honest with you, networking is overrated. Of course, Gnomon, Full Sail and GDC will say that it is important because this is how they make money but the number one thing that will get you a job is your portfolio.

    Companies will never not consider someone just because they don't know them. How the hell are they supposed to find a good candidate then?

    So, no more overthinking and let's make some art, god damn it!

    Hi Popol,

    Thank you so much for your comment. Your opinion consoled me to a great extent. :smile: I was also thinking about it in the same way. I mean, if I was recruiting, I wouldn't give a damn about the school, because what I'd need is talent. But I don't know how things work in this industry. In my homeland, Hungary, people can get into a company easier if they have a friend who's working there. It doesn't mean, that they get employed for sure, but they'll get a chance for an interview for 100%. From that point, it's up to the applicant if he gets the job or not. However, without a friend from inside, they might never get a chance like this. Of course, these jobs are not art related, so the game industry might be completely the opposite :) But what I'm hearing is that when a classmate of yours is working at a studio, they can refer you immediately to the art director, and they will consider you first for the job. So that's why they're saying this all the time. And I understand that these schools are promoting themselves, but even guys, who were not Gnomon students are saying the same thing (but in a presentation which is being held at Gnomon though :smile:
  • BIGTIMEMASTER
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    BIGTIMEMASTER interpolator
    Popol said:


    So, no more overthinking and let's make some art, god damn it!

    Bingo ^


    Ask for advice. Get advice. Consider advice. Also consider that advice given by students is going to lack perspective and experience.

    Then....

    Stop thinking about the future, and focus on the work right now. The loop stops there, at least until you've got some work finished.
  • NikhilR
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    NikhilR polycounter lvl 4
    Popol said:


    So, no more overthinking and let's make some art, god damn it!

    Bingo ^


    Ask for advice. Get advice. Consider advice. Also consider that advice given by students is going to lack perspective and experience.

    Then....

    Stop thinking about the future, and focus on the work right now. The loop stops there, at least until you've got some work finished.
    I think he's just asking because he wants to be sure if CGMA would be a better option given that its online and you won't physically network as much as if you were at a regular game dev school

    I agree on focusing on art, CGMA should be a good option to iron out fundamentals and process workflows.
  • BIGTIMEMASTER
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    BIGTIMEMASTER interpolator
    Ah, sorry, I didn't read carefully enough. 

    Yeah, I'd go with cheapest way to learn first, then apply for jobs. That's just me, but I think me and OP both live a bit secluded from artist communities, so  I think it's a practical approach.

    If that fails, then branch out more, spend some money traveling, meeting people, etc. 
  • Blazs91
    Popol said:


    So, no more overthinking and let's make some art, god damn it!

    Bingo ^


    Ask for advice. Get advice. Consider advice. Also consider that advice given by students is going to lack perspective and experience.

    Then....

    Stop thinking about the future, and focus on the work right now. The loop stops there, at least until you've got some work finished.
    Hi BIGTIMEMASTER,

    Thanks for your comment. I think you misunderstood me a little bit. :smile: First of all, I'm just looking for advice, because since I cannot afford to attend a school, I'll take an online course, and I'll skip all the physical network building part. And I can hear from everywhere, that it does matter quite a lot. And when I said Gnomon students, I was talking about guys, who graduated years ago, and now working at Blizzard, for instance, which is quite the top of the iceberg. 

    However, you're right on focusing on the work, period. But without thinking of the future, I don't know what to focus on :smile: One cannot just work without a firmly set goal and waiting for a miracle to happen. :smile: 
  • Blazs91
    NikhilR said:
    Popol said:


    So, no more overthinking and let's make some art, god damn it!

    Bingo ^


    Ask for advice. Get advice. Consider advice. Also consider that advice given by students is going to lack perspective and experience.

    Then....

    Stop thinking about the future, and focus on the work right now. The loop stops there, at least until you've got some work finished.
    I think he's just asking because he wants to be sure if CGMA would be a better option given that its online and you won't physically network as much as if you were at a regular game dev school

    I agree on focusing on art, CGMA should be a good option to iron out fundamentals and process workflows.
    Hi NikhilR;

    Thank you for the response. Yes, you're seeing my intention. I'm not worried about the quality of online education, but the other thing concerns me a little bit. I'm just a rookie, who wants to be a 3d artist and work on games, so don't have too much inside on how things work in this industry. That's why I'm here and seeking for advice. 
  • Blazs91
    Ah, sorry, I didn't read carefully enough. 

    Yeah, I'd go with cheapest way to learn first, then apply for jobs. That's just me, but I think me and OP both live a bit secluded from artist communities, so  I think it's a practical approach.

    If that fails, then branch out more, spend some money traveling, meeting people, etc. 
    Hello BIGTIMEMASTER,

    Thanks for your comment. Sorry if the main question was a bit ambiguous. :smile: I can only go with the cheaper way, so I'm planning to do it the same way you've just described. I do believe that I can get really good at what I'm about to learn, I could get a chance in the future :smile:

  • BIGTIMEMASTER
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    BIGTIMEMASTER interpolator
    I don't know that everybody has the temperament for totally secluded self-learning, but if you haven't tried it, maybe give it a shot before you throw down a lot of money at one of the schools. (even CGMA is pretty expensive compared to the really cheap stuff like youtube, gumroad, digital tutors, etc). 

    Maybe you'll find after a few months you prefer the more structured approach of school, which is fine, but I've been studying 3d art for one year now and put maaaaybe a total of $1k into it. This is including the programs and tutorials and 3d models and such. My work so far isn't brilliant or anything, but it's certainly up to par with some work you find from 2 year college students, so I think I'm doing something right. 

    Anyway, just a left-field alternative to consider. Poor people got to help each other out.
  • Blazs91
    I don't know that everybody has the temperament for totally secluded self-learning, but if you haven't tried it, maybe give it a shot before you throw down a lot of money at one of the schools. (even CGMA is pretty expensive compared to the really cheap stuff like youtube, gumroad, digital tutors, etc). 

    Maybe you'll find after a few months you prefer the more structured approach of school, which is fine, but I've been studying 3d art for one year now and put maaaaybe a total of $1k into it. This is including the programs and tutorials and 3d models and such. My work so far isn't brilliant or anything, but it's certainly up to par with some work you find from 2 year college students, so I think I'm doing something right. 

    Anyway, just a left-field alternative to consider. Poor people got to help each other out.
    Hello BIGTIMEMASTER,

    Thank you for your comment. I've been self-educating myself for half a year so far. I think that I've achieved quite a lot, because I've learned so much about 3d modeling, texturing, painting, UV-udim workflow, baking, lighting, and all that stuff. However, I've reached a certain point where I'm stuck. I know that I need to know much more, and you can't find everything on the web. In addition, the structured approach is another big thing, that you have mentioned too. Nowadays, I feel that even if I know what my goal is, I can't find the correct path to follow. I don't know what to look into, what to learn and practice. And finally, another important thing is the feedback. When you're taking a course, which is instructed by industry professionals, they can give useful pointers on what you need to improve. 
  • BIGTIMEMASTER
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    BIGTIMEMASTER interpolator
    Sounds like you have a good idea of what you need at this point. Yeah, that's tough making a big decision with a lot of money involved with no guarantees. I can't offer much advice there, except the same principle : use the minimum amount of money necessary, and only escalate as necessary. Avoid drastic decisions that could get you into a hole of regret. 

    Good luck!


  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher quad damage
    companies hire people they dont know all the time. 

    the main benefit of having a dope network is a lot of times word of mouth or referrals are like gold. you can hear about positions before they are publicly posted and having someone you know on the inside can put you on the fast track. almost every job i have gotten is from some sort of referral or former colleague hooking me up because of our past relationship.

    If you want to spend some time networking, I would do it outside of school anyways for the most part. go to meetup.com events that are industry related or local siggraph events and show up early for the cocktail mixer and introduce yourself to random people. no one is gonna bite, and you probably have something in common to chat about. booze is a good social lubricant, especially for people in our industry who can tend to be more socially awkward or introverted. the main thing is to make an effort and get outside of your apartment :)

    there are polycount meetups as well which can be a great place to meet people, or even sending linkedin and artstation DM's asking for advice and critiques to start building relationships with people.

    a huge hack is to find some way  you can bring value to the other people instead of looking at what you can get from them, especially if its someone higher up the chain in a studio or art position you want. you have to be genuine about it though and expect nothing back, do that for 10-20 people and good things should start to happen.
  • Blazs91
    companies hire people they dont know all the time. 

    the main benefit of having a dope network is a lot of times word of mouth or referrals are like gold. you can hear about positions before they are publicly posted and having someone you know on the inside can put you on the fast track. almost every job i have gotten is from some sort of referral or former colleague hooking me up because of our past relationship.

    If you want to spend some time networking, I would do it outside of school anyways for the most part. go to meetup.com events that are industry related or local siggraph events and show up early for the cocktail mixer and introduce yourself to random people. no one is gonna bite, and you probably have something in common to chat about. booze is a good social lubricant, especially for people in our industry who can tend to be more socially awkward or introverted. the main thing is to make an effort and get outside of your apartment :)

    there are polycount meetups as well which can be a great place to meet people, or even sending linkedin and artstation DM's asking for advice and critiques to start building relationships with people.

    a huge hack is to find some way  you can bring value to the other people instead of looking at what you can get from them, especially if its someone higher up the chain in a studio or art position you want. you have to be genuine about it though and expect nothing back, do that for 10-20 people and good things should start to happen.
    Hello PixelMasher,

    Thank you for your comment. from what you've just said, the only thing I can deduct is that networking is very important in this industry to an extent that people can 'steal' jobs from others, who might be a better fit, but they wouldn't have a chance. This is really sad, but somewhat understandable. If you know someone well, then it's logical to offer them a position before posting it in public.

    However, your advice on going out is right, and believe me that I'd do that all. The thing here is that I'm leaving Canada next week and I'm gonna go back to my homeland, Hungary, where this industry literally doesn't exist. No companies, no communities, no meetups etc. The only way I could do it is to attend events which are held somewhere else in Europe. I would gladly do that too, but believe me when I tell you that my financials are finite, and after paying off the tuition for my course, I won't have so much money left. And earning the price of a flight ticket in Hungary is really difficult, plus building a portfolio in the meantime. It's a vicious circle, and money has always erected a big wall ahead of me. :( 

    Anyway, thank you so much for your comment. I really appreciate all those useful pointers. I promise, that I'm gonna do what you advised once I'll have learned more and got much better. :) 
  • PixelMasher
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    PixelMasher quad damage
    Thank you for your comment. from what you've just said, the only thing I can deduct is that networking is very important in this industry to an extent that people can 'steal' jobs from others, who might be a better fit, but they wouldn't have a chance. This is really sad, but somewhat understandable. If you know someone well, then it's logical to offer them a position before posting it in public.

    This is also a good lesson in the fact that it's not always the best artist who gets the job. I would much rather work with a good-great artist with a solid attitude who gets along well in a social and team environment than an "art god" who is super socially awkward and/or has a huge ego.

    so yea, relationships can be a huge part of the equation.

    as for living in Hungary.....well CD Project Red is right next door in Krakow, and they are hiring for cyberpunk 2077, and there is always ubisoft in bucharest. I would look at the studios in the countries a quick train or cheap flight away that surround you and hammer hard on matching the art style of the ones that appeal to you.  
  • Blazs91
    Thank you for your comment. from what you've just said, the only thing I can deduct is that networking is very important in this industry to an extent that people can 'steal' jobs from others, who might be a better fit, but they wouldn't have a chance. This is really sad, but somewhat understandable. If you know someone well, then it's logical to offer them a position before posting it in public.

    This is also a good lesson in the fact that it's not always the best artist who gets the job. I would much rather work with a good-great artist with a solid attitude who gets along well in a social and team environment than an "art god" who is super socially awkward and/or has a huge ego.

    so yea, relationships can be a huge part of the equation.

    as for living in Hungary.....well CD Project Red is right next door in Krakow, and they are hiring for cyberpunk 2077, and there is always ubisoft in bucharest. I would look at the studios in the countries a quick train or cheap flight away that surround you and hammer hard on matching the art style of the ones that appeal to you.  
    Hello PixelMasher,

    I can completely agree with you. I would also always choose a decent person rather than a d*ick, regardless of how expert he is. Making games is a team effort, and when someone cannot collaborate effectively, it can hurt the entire project.

    As for your suggestions on the studios, yeah, CPR is right next door, and working there would be a real dream coming true for me. I loved the Witcher series, one of, if not the best RPG games I've ever played. But because they are really good, so many people want to work there. So in order to get in, I need to hit a AAA quality with my portfolio, which currently stands on level 0 :smile: `Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining and not looking for excuses. I accept the challenge, I'm learning, practicing, and maybe one day, I'll good enough to be a decent fit in their studio. :)
  • Biomag
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    Biomag greentooth
    I am still wandering how much of that networking really plays a role for junior... sure if your portfolio is already on a level that will get recruiters attention it will definitely help to have someone knowing your name to keep you in 'mind' during the process, but beyond that? In other words - no networking will make up for the lack of skills, but it will definitely increase your chances to get noticed. Getting the attention is probably more of an issue than 'networking' - especially with your network being other students.

    Once you are in the industry its definitely different.


    For the other topic - Europe has quite a lot of studios. Brexit might be interesting to keep an eye on because of the visa situation and the mess it might cause. Still eastern Europe has cheap costs of living, so its a good place for tech companies to settle. Working myself for an outsourcing studio in Poland and my pay is pretty much western standard with far lower costs of living than I had in Austria. This is quite an advantage for EU citizens compared to oversees where the costs of living can't differ as much between regions - it makes these countries a win-win for comanies and employees. Especially when a company doesn't want to deal with language and cultural barries further east. Poland for example is going through a IT boom at the moment. For other options you also have a mobile hub in Helsinki and Sweden has a lot of studios in Malmö and Stockholm. Not to mention the several studios Ubisoft has all over the place and other big studios in western Europe.
  • Blazs91
    Biomag said:
    I am still wandering how much of that networking really plays a role for junior... sure if your portfolio is already on a level that will get recruiters attention it will definitely help to have someone knowing your name to keep you in 'mind' during the process, but beyond that? In other words - no networking will make up for the lack of skills, but it will definitely increase your chances to get noticed. Getting the attention is probably more of an issue than 'networking' - especially with your network being other students.

    Once you are in the industry its definitely different.


    For the other topic - Europe has quite a lot of studios. Brexit might be interesting to keep an eye on because of the visa situation and the mess it might cause. Still eastern Europe has cheap costs of living, so its a good place for tech companies to settle. Working myself for an outsourcing studio in Poland and my pay is pretty much western standard with far lower costs of living than I had in Austria. This is quite an advantage for EU citizens compared to oversees where the costs of living can't differ as much between regions - it makes these countries a win-win for comanies and employees. Especially when a company doesn't want to deal with language and cultural barries further east. Poland for example is going through a IT boom at the moment. For other options you also have a mobile hub in Helsinki and Sweden has a lot of studios in Malmö and Stockholm. Not to mention the several studios Ubisoft has all over the place and other big studios in western Europe.
    Hi Biomag

    Thanks for your comment. You gave me so many useful tips and hints. Thank you for that! :smile: I still believe that if someone could come up with a decent portfolio, then whether the studio knows him or not, they would be interested in his/her skills. 

    By the way, the Brexit stuff is something I had totally ignored, until you mentioned it. It could really be a huge pain, because the UK is almost the only promising market in this field. Okay, I know that big studios also have branches in Sweden, and there's CPR in Poland. But their recruiting rate is still pretty vague compared to the UK. I don't know how it will go, but one thing's for sure: when I'll have an acceptable portfolio, UK will not be the member of the EU, which is quite concerning :(
  • Biomag
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    Biomag greentooth
    Yeah, I think a strong portfolio will not be ignored. Then its up to the interviews to make it work. That's why I personally don't think networking is cruicial for juniors. Though the longer you are in the industry, the higher the positions are that you are going for the less risk the employer will take. Having someone putting in a good word for you will be important.

    2 things:
    1. Yes, GB has the highest desinty, but it also isn't the holy land for games in Europe. The biggest advantage they have is you don't have to move far and they speak English. It comes though with a price - far more competition and bad contracts especially in London area.

    2. Brexit could be a longterm blessing for the EU gameing industry - the harder the exit the better it probably will be. One of the big reasons for going to GB as a company was access to EU market AND labor. WIthout both you get higher taxes in all import/export related things and they lose easy access to foreign workers as all of a sudden visa are a thing - and visas come with costs and time issues for companies. Let's not forget immigration was the big reason why most voted for Brexit, so a soft exit without changes to the labor market would make the whole thing pointless. With the uncertainties that are up in the air right now and the lack of progress it makes GB not really an attractive target for investment. I also think I am not the only one with a girlfriend who didn't want to apply in GB as you don't know what the visa situation is going to be in one year, especially if the partner doesn't find a job in the meantime. The question remaining is how the Brexit will affect the existing visas, probably GB will have to give in, but as said before how will it affect family members or partners that are not married no one knows. Too many uncertanties to make GB attractive in the short and long run - and Paris, Frankfurt, Dublin as well as others are getting ready to lure a lot of IT out of GB with taxes and other incentitives.

    On the other hand a soft Brexit won't change much to the previous situation. Either way I think it isn't going to be a big thing for new employees. Those hit the hardest will be the companies itself and those already working there.
  • garcellano
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    garcellano polycounter lvl 4
    Blazs91 said:
    So, my question is, if it was really true? Companies will not consider someone, who they don't know but just apply for the posted position?
    In some cases, it does matter who you know.
    It makes it easier for someone to do like a casual background check, as loose as it sounds.
    I can see where if they're familiar with the school they went to, they can contact them. If they're in a circle of artists, Polycount, same thing. I think people naturally do it. The six-degree of separation will kick in. I think it does help if someone can vouch for you, whether if it's your personality, online presence, work ethic, etc.

    I try to relate most of these from my past experience. There was a Career Services office at the College I went to, years ago. Some of my past jobs were from there, just either getting the newsletters of job ads, or passing my resume to them, for them to send it to whichever company. Now that you mention it, if an HR at a game company gets an email from a Career Services Rep at a college, it'll at least show the college email address. It lets the game company aware that at least it's from a college where they sent out their job ads.

    One of my first freelance clients in games started out just randomly responding to a job post in the Unity Forums, when the iPhone gaming market was booming. But, this was after I did some internships and work at other places. I think it was probably just the "name-drops" that got their attention, if it's the company name or the platforms you worked on.

    Networking will help a lot. You're already doing it here on Polycount. If everyone's familiar with you and you're work here, I think the other part is just putting yourself out there at events, meeting people in person. Maybe even interacting with people more online, either on the Polycount Slack or Discord channel, or on FB, Twitter, Instagram, whichever. Don't see it as a selfie-food pic-retweet-whatever media. It's an outlet to put you and your work out, that's all. There's a limit to what to post and how many, but it's you get a good jist of it, it'll show to others what kind of personality you have, and what you like. It's kind of like showing your interests on your Resume or CV, without showing it.
  • Blazs91
    Biomag said:
    Yeah, I think a strong portfolio will not be ignored. Then its up to the interviews to make it work. That's why I personally don't think networking is cruicial for juniors. Though the longer you are in the industry, the higher the positions are that you are going for the less risk the employer will take. Having someone putting in a good word for you will be important.

    2 things:
    1. Yes, GB has the highest desinty, but it also isn't the holy land for games in Europe. The biggest advantage they have is you don't have to move far and they speak English. It comes though with a price - far more competition and bad contracts especially in London area.

    2. Brexit could be a longterm blessing for the EU gameing industry - the harder the exit the better it probably will be. One of the big reasons for going to GB as a company was access to EU market AND labor. WIthout both you get higher taxes in all import/export related things and they lose easy access to foreign workers as all of a sudden visa are a thing - and visas come with costs and time issues for companies. Let's not forget immigration was the big reason why most voted for Brexit, so a soft exit without changes to the labor market would make the whole thing pointless. With the uncertainties that are up in the air right now and the lack of progress it makes GB not really an attractive target for investment. I also think I am not the only one with a girlfriend who didn't want to apply in GB as you don't know what the visa situation is going to be in one year, especially if the partner doesn't find a job in the meantime. The question remaining is how the Brexit will affect the existing visas, probably GB will have to give in, but as said before how will it affect family members or partners that are not married no one knows. Too many uncertanties to make GB attractive in the short and long run - and Paris, Frankfurt, Dublin as well as others are getting ready to lure a lot of IT out of GB with taxes and other incentitives.

    On the other hand a soft Brexit won't change much to the previous situation. Either way I think it isn't going to be a big thing for new employees. Those hit the hardest will be the companies itself and those already working there.
    Hello Biomag,

    Thank you for your response. Yes, I think you're right in all of your statements. Networking might not be a game-changer for a junior, but once you get in and do your job well, people will notice that. And you'll also have all the other artists around you, so you'll have connections. 

    As for GB and Brexit, you kind of enlightened me. Thank you for that! :) If that thing will really happen, then companies might not invest in the UK in the future. However, UK now has so many educated people, and that's why there's a cut-throat competition there, as you have mentioned. A friend of mine's been living there for a year so far, and he's still unemployed. He's not in the gaming industry, though, but he possesses a masters degree in electrical engineering, and 2 years of work XP that he gained at the market leader company in Hungary. So the UK has a really good labour force for the companies right now. But it could be the case, that a major part of that workforce consists of the skilled immigrants, I don't have a clue. 

    Anyway, hopefully, it won't be us, the employees, who really need to worry about all this stuff. I'm a Hungarian, so a foreigner to all the studios. So, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, where I'll go, I'll face this issue anyway. Except within EU, of course :)
  • Blazs91
    Blazs91 said:
    So, my question is, if it was really true? Companies will not consider someone, who they don't know but just apply for the posted position?
    In some cases, it does matter you know.
    It makes it easier for someone to do like a casual background check, as loose as it sounds.
    I can see where if they're familiar with the school they went to, they can contact them. If they're in a circle of artists, Polycount, same thing. I think people naturally do it. The six-degree of separation will kick in. I think it does help if someone can vouch for you, whether if it's your personality, online presence, work ethic, etc.

    I try to relate most of these from my past experience. There was a Career Services office at the College I went to, years ago. Some of my past jobs were from there, just either getting the newsletters of job ads, or passing my resume to them, for them to send it to whichever company. Now that you mention it, if an HR at a game company gets an email from a Career Services Rep at a college, it'll at least show the college email address. It lets the game company aware that at least it's from a college where they sent out their job ads.

    One of my first freelance clients in games started out just randomly responding to a job post in the Unity Forums, when the iPhone gaming market was booming. But, this was after I did some internships and work at other places. I think it was probably just the "name-drops" that got their attention, if it's the company name or the platforms you worked on.

    Networking will help a lot. You're already doing it here on Polycount. If everyone's familiar with you and you're work here, I think the other part is just putting yourself out there at events, meeting people in person. Maybe even interacting with people more online, either on the Polycount Slack or Discord channel, or on FB, Twitter, Instagram, whichever. Don't see it as a selfie-food pic-retweet-whatever media. It's an outlet to put you and your work out, that's all. There's a limit to what to post and how many, but it's you get a good jist of it, it'll show to others what kind of personality you have, and what you like. It's kind of like showing your interests on your Resume or CV, without showing it.
    Hello garcellano,

    Thank you for your comment. It was very useful and constructive. I'm so grateful for how you went into the details while describing the situation. However, from what you just said, I feel that I have a little bit of a 'handicap', since I won't be in a school, so I won't have all those opportunities you've listed. So I need to make use of the internet :) I love this forum, BTW. There're so many useful threads and articles here, the educational database is awesome, and all the people who I've had the chance to converse with are so kind and nice. Honestly, I've never been in such a converging community. The people here are offering a helping hand to anyone who needs that. It's literally miraculous.

    By the way, I didn't register to this page, because I want to take advantage of that. I just wanted a platform where there are other people who have the same interests, taste and passionate about the same thing than me. This is something that I don't have in my immediate, physical surroundings at home. And I've always considered FB and Instagram a platform for useful posts, since all that I can see is teenage girls posting their breakfast coffee and movie tickets they got for the weekend. I've never thought that those media are also a place for people who want to do some business, or more serious stuff. So, Thanks for the pointers once again! :)
  • pior
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    pior polycount lvl 666
    Hello and welcome.

    - - - - -

    "They say, that getting a job in the industry would be impossible without knowing those people, because it's a very small industry. But since I need to leave the school, and I'll take an online course, I'll miss this direct network-building part. 

    So, my question is, if it was really true? Companies will not consider someone, who they don't know but just apply for the posted position?"

    - - - - -

    I think a lot of people (these speakers included) are operating on a fallacy without realizing it. Sure, a very good artist knowing another very good artist will vouch for that person during the hiring process. But these two people are not vouching for each other because they randomly met at a so-called "networking event" with beer and pizzas and found out they like the same baseball team - they trust each other because they recognize each other's skills. It may sound elitist, but that's really the way it is. That said there is absolutely nothing unfair here because anyone can get to a fantastic skill level by working hard, putting in the hours, and staying focused.

    Now of course just like in any other industries there are always going to be some cases of buddies hiring buddies. But unlike other fields it is not really possible to "fake it until you make it" here - except maybe for very low-skill, repetitive grunt work.

    Here's an extreme example : Kim Jun Gi wasn't networking much when he was a virtually unknown art teacher working at a virtually unknown art school in South Korea. But fast-forward a few years and he is now world-famous and has "connections" in every game studio he toured at. I can guarantee you that he didn't get there by strategically becoming the beer buddy of this or that person.
  • Blazs91
    pior said:
    Hello and welcome.

    - - - - -

    "They say, that getting a job in the industry would be impossible without knowing those people, because it's a very small industry. But since I need to leave the school, and I'll take an online course, I'll miss this direct network-building part. 

    So, my question is, if it was really true? Companies will not consider someone, who they don't know but just apply for the posted position?"

    - - - - -

    I think a lot of people (these speakers included) are operating on a fallacy without realizing it. Sure, a very good artist knowing another very good artist will vouch for that person during the hiring process. But these two people are not vouching for each other because they randomly met at a so-called "networking event" with beer and pizzas and found out they like the same baseball team - they trust each other because they recognize each other's skills. It may sound elitist, but that's really the way it is. That said there is absolutely nothing unfair here because anyone can get to a fantastic skill level by working hard, putting in the hours, and staying focused.

    Now of course just like in any other industries there are always going to be some cases of buddies hiring buddies. But unlike other fields it is not really possible to "fake it until you make it" here - except maybe for very low-skill, repetitive grunt work.

    Here's an extreme example : Kim Jun Gi wasn't networking much when he was a virtually unknown art teacher working at a virtually unknown art school in South Korea. But fast-forward a few years and he is now world-famous and has "connections" in every game studio he toured at. I can guarantee you that he didn't get there by strategically becoming the beer buddy of this or that person.
    Hello pior,

    Thank you for your response. I was feeling to receive the ultimate enlightenment while reading your lines. This makes the picture crystal clear to me. I have always been assuming that, since it's a performance-driven industry, studios won't hire someone who they know, when they can find another artist who might be way better at his craft. And when I was at school, and we started to discuss certain topics, we mentioned artist to each other. For instance, we were talking about human anatomy and Zbrush, everyone knew who Rafael Grassetti is, even though no one has ever met him. 

    So yeah, skill is above everything. Thank you for your comment once again! :smile: 
  • pior
  • Blazs91
    I don't know that everybody has the temperament for totally secluded self-learning, but if you haven't tried it, maybe give it a shot before you throw down a lot of money at one of the schools. (even CGMA is pretty expensive compared to the really cheap stuff like youtube, gumroad, digital tutors, etc). 

    Maybe you'll find after a few months you prefer the more structured approach of school, which is fine, but I've been studying 3d art for one year now and put maaaaybe a total of $1k into it. This is including the programs and tutorials and 3d models and such. My work so far isn't brilliant or anything, but it's certainly up to par with some work you find from 2 year college students, so I think I'm doing something right. 

    Anyway, just a left-field alternative to consider. Poor people got to help each other out.
    Hello BIGTIMEMASTER,

    Thank you for your comment. I've been self-educating myself for half a year so far. I think that I've achieved quite a lot, because I've learned so much about 3d modeling, texturing, painting, UV-udim workflow, baking, lighting, and all that stuff. However, I've reached a certain point where I'm stuck. I know that I need to know much more, and you can't find everything on the web. In addition, the structured approach is another big thing, that you have mentioned too. Nowadays, I feel that even if I know what my goal is, I can't find the correct path to follow. I don't know what to look into, what to learn and practice. And finally, another important thing is the feedback. When you're taking a course, which is instructed by industry professionals, they can give useful pointers on what you need to improve. Sometimes they can point out things that might have never thought about.
  • Blazs91
    I don't know that everybody has the temperament for totally secluded self-learning, but if you haven't tried it, maybe give it a shot before you throw down a lot of money at one of the schools. (even CGMA is pretty expensive compared to the really cheap stuff like youtube, gumroad, digital tutors, etc). 

    Maybe you'll find after a few months you prefer the more structured approach of school, which is fine, but I've been studying 3d art for one year now and put maaaaybe a total of $1k into it. This is including the programs and tutorials and 3d models and such. My work so far isn't brilliant or anything, but it's certainly up to par with some work you find from 2 year college students, so I think I'm doing something right. 

    Anyway, just a left-field alternative to consider. Poor people got to help each other out.
    Hello BIGTIMEMASTER,

    Thank you for your comment. I've been self-educating myself for half a year so far. I think that I've achieved quite a lot, because I've learned so much about 3d modeling, texturing, painting, UV-udim workflow, baking, lighting, and all that stuff. However, I've reached a certain point where I'm stuck. I know that I need to know much more, and you can't find everything on the web. In addition, the structured approach is another big thing, that you have mentioned too. Nowadays, I feel that even if I know what my goal is, I can't find the correct path to follow. I don't know what to look into, what to learn and practice. And finally, another important thing is the feedback. When you're taking a course, which is instructed by industry professionals, they can give useful pointers on what you need to improve. Sometimes they can point out things that might have never thought about.
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