Creating professional portfolio in school vs online course.
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Hi everyone!
I’m a newbie on polycount, but I can imagine how many times this topic has already been discussed. But I think that my situation is a little bit different. I've currently enrolled in Vanarts in their Game Art course two weeks ago for the Sep 2018 term. It was such an extraordinary opportunity for me, so that I took it immediately.
However, after a week or so, I have some concerns. I don’t have enough money to pay for the entire tuition (I know, I had to be more cautious, but I was driven and blinded by my passion and dream which is to work in a studio as a 3d environment artist). So, I found another option, which is CGMA’s 3D Environment Arts Program. It’d cost 1/4 of the price of the program that I’m currently taking at Vanarts. In addition, it seems to me to be completely focused on environments, which is the field I really want to learn and excel in.
However, here at school, my instructors expect us, the class, to make a complete video game as a team by the end of the program. In order to do this, every single student needs to learn everything, from concepting and digital painting throught 3d modeling and texturing to making the gameplay, ai effects etc. But in my case, I guess, like 80% of that is unnecessary (such as figure drawing, character design or coding the ai), if wanna work on environments. But my teachers stress the importance of having a complete game in my porfolio what I’ve maade with a team, so studios will see that I’m good teamplayer, and no else would compete with something like that on the job market.
I’ve checked so many job listing, and studios would only require environment elements, props or complete scenes or levels from anyone who’s applying for an environment artist position. Showing them a complete game would definitely be a great thing, but they’d only evaluate the environment, I guess.
My main struggle here is, by the way, is that I might need to choose the CGMA online course, because I don't have money for Vanarts. But in this case, I won't have a complete video game in my portfolio that showcases that I'm a good team-player. However, at CGMA, I could dedicate my entire time to learn especially what I need, so I might be able to create better environments. So, my ultimate question is, that is it really impossbile for someone, who wants to be an environment artist, to get hired by a studio without having an actual, complete game in the portfolio, but only environments? It seems to me, that since only taditional schools can provide me with this opportunity to be in a classroom and create something in collaboration with others, that getting into the industry is oly possible by attending brick and mortar schools. However, when I listen to Gnomon, GDC and all the other big schools' presentations, where industry professionals are being interviewed, they always say that portfolio is the main thing, and if it fits the position I'm applying for, and decent, then they'd call me in. No one has ever said that for environment artist 'wannabe' a complete game is kind of mandatory.
Thank you very much for your answers in advance. And sorry for making this post so long, but this is a really huge and devastating struggle to me, and I'd gladly receive any advice or opinion on this from anyone. Thank you once again!
Replies
Just out of curiosity, may I ask if where do you work?
It was the best of both worlds in some way. To this day I profit from that one year that gave me the basics. It also made it easier to follow the bigger picture while doing specific classes. Still without the specific character art classes and practise I wouldn't have a job now. Pretty much nobody is looking for junior 'generalists'. Most positions as you yourself noticed are quite specific and don't require things outside your field.
To be honest nobody probably cares about your student projects. There might be some schools that really get high end student portfolios, but that isn't about the school. If the students don't put the work in they won't reach that level. And that is the thing - nobody asks how you reach the required level - either in an university that comes with a big student loan, in some specificly selected courses, teaching yoursef in your garage or sacrifying to some crazy ant god - if you reach the quality level they look for, they will invite you for an interview.
That said there is still the issue of the 'T-personality'. Most companies prefer people that have a wide basic understanding of what the other departments do while themselves being specialized in a certain field. So in your case it appears more sound to just do the CGMA do get the knowledge you will need for your job, but make sure to get also some knowledge regarding the other disciplines. No need to become an expert, but maybe there are things that will make communication with other departments easier or you will pick up workflows that you can adept to your own needs. Listen to GDC talks, read some articles, talk to some artist doing the other things,...
Final advice - if you want to do a game project there are so many mod-teams or small non profit game colaborations, or other things out there. A good environment artist will be contacted anyhow. So that should be the least of your worries. At the end of the day being a good teamplayer isn't rocket science and that experience can be gained outside game dev as well.
This is a list of members of polycount, but i dont know how current this is
Thanks for your answer. It's very informative and filled useful pointers. I don't know how to express my gratitude. I'm so grateful.
According to your words, the rumor what I've been hearing for a while, that generalists are not in demand in the gaming industry, is true. That's quite assuring in my case.
As for the student projects, here, at school, I'm expected to make a game on my own in the first half of the program, and another one as a group project by the end of the entire course. I saw student works, they're quite nice. However, as I said, if I'd spent all that year on learning environment stuff, especially at CGMA, where, allegedly, they teach this discipline from an industry point of view, so making sure that the acquired skill will be a perfect fit in a studio, I'd be much more efficient. I'm not saying though, that I know everything, but I generally try to approach things from a holistic aspect. What I mean by that is that when I was modeling characters, just for practicing, I was browsing forums on how to make it more effective in order to make it easier to texture, rig and then animate. How to retopo and place more polys on the joints, etc. So I think that I already have a general understanding of the pipeline. And yes, I think I've listened to all GDC talks, and also to Gnomon presentations.
At the end, I completely agree with your point on self-motivation. I've learned so much on my own under 6 months, that my current classmates don't believe me. However, I was learning and practicing all day long, every day, no birthday celebration and nothing of that sort. My friends started to worry about my health, because I haven't stepped out of my room for months. So, I think that I have the drive inside of me, because this is my dream, and I'm willing to put the work into it.
Oh, and just one last thought. Here, at Vanarts, all the students are extremely hardworking. And, IMHO, this is what ultimately makes this school world famous, their students. Because they dedicated to an extent that I've never seen before.
Thank you very much for your time that you've spent on writing me your response. Your answer was very very informative and helpful.
Thank you for your response. That Wiki link is really useful, I haven't seen it yet. I just registered today though, but this forum will definitely be on my daily to-do list.
However, I couldn't have opened the other link what you'd shared. The 'list of members of polycount'. What is that about exactly?
Many of these schools are marketed as "_____ school gets you the job", and the job market in games depends from place to place.
Also being one of the few fields where seniors opt for junior positions with a salary cut, most students aren't going to come out with a portfolio that can compete with them and their work experience.
So the schools try a more middle ground approach with the understanding that the majority doesn't know what they want to specialise in and that several students are gamers and probably wont enjoy making games as a career.
The best takeaway from these courses are a few students working together to make indie games. I think that was important given the market in the city where not everyone gets a chance regardless of the quality of their work.
What matters thus is that once you know what you want to specialise in. And once you know that get up to speed on the latest techniques and make use of networking opportunities.
The CGMA courses are more specific, which is a good thing.
I can't say that every student that does them comes out with stellar work and a guaranteed job. Discipline and drive is a thing and the market for game jobs is variable.
Thanks for your response. I think you hit the nail on the head. The main concept, what my teachers here are trying to follow, is that the first half of the program is about to get to know everything, and find out what you want to do. Whereas the second part, when we're about to make a game, we will simulate a studio, where we appoint character artists, concept artists, producer, FX artists, etc. Very reasonable, because most of my classmates don't know what they really want to be.
However, I have a clear goal in my mind, so that I just find this half year of 'exploration' a waste of my time and my money either. This school is, by the way, promising that 'everyone will get employed', and they are telling us stories about how much money is in this industry. Whereas CGMA clearly states that they cannot guarantee anything in that regard. The only thing they can guarantee, is that we'll receive a world-class education from the best of the industry, so we'll have the skills that can enable us to enter the market successfully. I personally think that the latter is more candid and straightforward, they don't sell anything they cannot promise for sure, and they don't wanna blind their students.
I know, that this industry is one of the most challenging ones that exist today. I know that I'm taking a huge risk, because I had to sell my own house and quit my job in order to get enough time and money to make this step. But I just really wanna find the best existing option, which has the highest likelihood of giving me the chance to reach my dreams, which is working on video games and building 3d environments.
If you have a particular studio you want to work for, it might help to try and match their workflow and art style. What studio did you have in mind?
Also the use of substance designer and unreal 4 blueprint workflows is now more important for environment artists, so that is something worth looking into.
If you are Canadian, you have the opportunity to move about a lot easier for work, such and Europe/USA so that is an advantage too.
Also after looking at your portfolio, I do have one question. Are you focusing on environments or characters, since from your current portfolio you seem to be more interested in characters, particularly creature concept art.
Thanks for your comment. Yes, you have a point with the campus opportunity, but I'm not a Canadian. I'm from Hungary, Europe, so I'm currently here with a student visa. After finishing my studies, it expires, so I need to move back to my homeland, I guess. At my school, several people, including the instructors and former graduates, told me that if I'm not a Canadian, then chances that I'll get hired are very thin. Truth to be told, this deeply disappointed me, because this is not what I was hearing from many sources and reading everywhere. But I'm not completely diowncast, because there are many great studios in Europe, and since I'm a citizen of the EU, I don't need a visa or work permit.
I have so many studios in mind. In Europe, for instance, there are countless great companies, small and big ones too. I would really like to get in some specific places, such as Splash Damage, Rebellion, Remedy, Guerilla Games, or Naughty Dog (which seems to remain a dream, just like Blizzard). Blizzard has always been my number one, because of Warcraft. But I don't wanna digress.
As for my portfolio, yes, you're right, that I have mainly characters in it. But I just recently changed my mind and I want to make environments. I already have an interior scene, which can be found on my artstation, but that is a really beginner piece. I didn't really want to post it, but I wanted to ask the opinion fo a friend of mine. But now, I'm on a higher level, compared to what you can see there, but I do not really have time that I can dedicate to this. I'm at school day/night, because I have classes from 9 am - 4 pm, and then I need to stay there to work on my assignments, which are far cries from what I want to learn. This is why I'm seriously considering to drop that school at all, and take CGMA. I just don't know how much of a benefit I would have if I could stay till the end and then I'd have a complete game in my portfolio. But I somewhat received an answer to it already in the previous comments.
Thank you for your comment. yeah, you might have a good point, because I myself have also seen portfolios of some students who got their feet into AAA studios without having a full-fleshed game in their palette. I do believe now, that people are looking for the specific skill for the specific job, and application only need to showcase that.
By the way, the reel what you're talking about, I really wanna see it.
i am too in a country where there are no studios etc, so i can understand you completely!
The Link to the joblist i wrote was:
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/Polycounter_Job_Census
Thank you so much for this link. This is very helpful, I'm gonna keep my ones on this page. Thanks once again! It was very nice of you.
Blazs91 said:
sacboi said:
Actually dosn't have to be a fully fleshed out game to sbowcase stuff for folio inclusion. Can't find it ATM but when I do I'll link the relevant thread, was if I remember correctly a polished production anim reel for a client and you could tell that the author had a real passion for wbat he was into, BTW best I'd seen for ages.
Hi sacboi,
Thank you for your comment. yeah, you might have a good point, because I myself have also seen portfolios of some students who got their feet into AAA studios without having a full-fleshed game in their palette. I do believe now, that people are looking for the specific skill for the specific job, and application only need to showcase that.
By the way, the reel what you're talking about, I really wanna see it.
A working holiday visa might be one way to get an open work permit if you want to get work in Canada.
You also get a work permit after finishing school.
However, since you are a EU resident, I feel that your work prospects are way better in the EU than they will ever be in Canada.
You clearly are a disciplined artist so CGMA should be good to give that extra edge.
Good luck!
Thank you for sharing this. It's really impressive.
Thank you for your comment. Yes, this visa stuff always erects a painful barrier for the foreigners. Working holiday visa is also not easy for me to obtain, I've checked it with an immigration agent. However, just as you said, there are opportunities in Europe too. The UK, for instance, has so many studios, both indies and AAAs.
By the way, thank for saying that I'm a 'disciplined artist'. I do not consider myself that at all, but I'm really glad that you have that opinion on me.
I've not done this, except once started with a couple of friends but after a handful of months it became obvious that we won't have the time for it.
You have here a job section on this board. Just take a look. Also you can always take a look at modding communities of games that support mods. Just contact them. I got a couple of pms on polycount and artstation with 'offers' to work on some 'game' projects. Personally I don't see the point in these revenue share projects if you don't have a personal stake in it. But if you want to get some experience working in a team it might be an option. Personally though I seriously doubt you will gain any valuable experience out of these. Spending the hours working on your portfolio free of the limitations that come with game specific issues is probably more beneficial in the long run then some ill fated project done by people that likely don't know what they are doing.
In any case good luck
Edit:
Just to add to the other topic about university projects. I don't doubt that there are good courses and solid student projects, but still I don't see employers being particulary interested in those. Honestly most AAA jobs out there are targeting seniors or at least intermediates, not people with nice student work. Get your portfolio as close to a professional portfolio as you can and don't worry about the team experience. As long as you understand your role on a team, can handle feedback and you are not an a**hole you should be fine
Thank you for your comment. I've already found the job section here though, and I saw that so many people are looking for more artist to assist them with making their in-development projects come to life. Yes, all of them are unpaid, but there's a chance of getting rewarded with their reference later. When I first saw them, I became so enthusiastic about it. I thought that those are incredible opportunities for someone, who wants to break is, get references, or build portfolio and practice. But I peeked on some of those projects, and to be honest, the quality was a far cry from the industry standard is nowadays. And I just thought that participating in that, might be a waste of time, because it would be a process of constantly producing substandard, inferior quality assets, which are more or less useless, because they cannot be appointed as portfolio pieces.
Thank you, and to Biomag too, to make it clear to me, so that I'm certain now about my impression.
I love you guys, by the way! You're so helpful and give me so much advice and great pointers. I'm so glad that I've noticed polycount, it's such an awesome platform for artists. Artists are an extraordinary community, everyone's helping to each other, there's a strong bond and a sense of sticking together. I haven't experienced anything like that.
Thanks again. I cannot tell you how I appreciate all the time that you invested in writing down those detailed bits of advice for me. I'm so grateful!
My main scope, until the end of my course at CGMA, is to have 2 pieces of really great environments. I'm aiming for one, which has a lot of organic stuff and architecture, and another one which is more sci-fi related. I guess it's beneficial to show both organic and hard-surface modeling skills. However, I'm terrible at hard-surface; organic modeling is my thingie.
By the way, with without showcasing only a small amount of hard surface modeling, but mainly organic and architecture stuff, but on a high level, would ever get me any chance? Or, I guess, it depends on the actual studio itself, doesn't it?
Edit: the course here, at Vanarts, is really good. I'm not trying to give it a bad review at all. My only concern is that first half what we spend with exploration, because I already have a clear goal in mind. But it's really intense, and students here are pushed to perform at their absolute best. And yes, I can totally agree with your point, the portfolio is the winning card. And for an environment artist 'wannabe', it's possible without making a functional game with all the additional
Thanks for your comment. I have the exact same opinion on this. I just got a little bit confused, when I was told that having a full game is a winning card that beats every other applicants' portfolio, because it reflects that I know everything, and also shows that I'm a team player. I completely disagree with the former statement, but the teamwork part could have some merit. But at the end of the day, I don't think that would make that difference which determines who's gonna get hired and who's not.
https://contragon.itch.io/contra-2028
Not everyone that participated found employment right away and all their portfolios are variable.
I think in this case the game certainly helped provided each artist focused on a dedicated role and created a porfolio showcasing their assets.
Basically kinda like making a prop and rendering it in game engine.
As far as the job's they're in, is their portfolio work catering to the companies they work for?
In some cases yes, seems there are more factors at work in other cases, not entirely sure what to make of that. But there are some specifics required in every portfolio which have been demonstrated.
The key aspect here was that this team of artists really worked well together and used current tech like substance painter, designer very well.
It is not always the case, I was trying to find some cinematic's from my course, but they've all been pulled down for good reason I suppose.
Thank you for sharing this with me. That game looks very impressive. I mean, on the screenshot, the art looks pretty solid. I cannot judge the entire game, however, because I cannot play it. But yeah, it could definitely turn out to be much more appealing, than showcasing something that you've done on your own.
But since I have no option, but to chose the online course and doing it on my own, and do my best and hope for the best. But at least, I can see what a team of 10 or so people can put together and what I'll miss out by going on the 'lonely' way
Each artist in that project did what they did best, rather what they wanted to do in the industry, so it doesn't matter if you make a full game as long as you have a portfolio that shows that you can do your bit well enough for the position you're applying to.
This was one of the more unique successes, there aren't that many others I know of and I wouldn't say that every artist on this project got what they wanted going forward.
You did NOT discourage me at all, sorry if my previous comment was a bit ambiguous. I have to drop the class and take the online course, because of financial issues. That is why I wrote that 'I have no other options'.
By the way, I think that your point is completely right regarding the portfolio. However, another aspect, what my teachers always emphasize, is that making only a scene will not be a strong piece, because that is something which is not playable. Even if it looks gorgeous than anything else, it won't have a gameplay perspective, won't have a path that the player should go through, etc. So basically, they are saying that making a scene demonstrates the skill of building quality assets and lighting, but it won't be a level in a game, which is a great defect.
But from an environment artist wannabe, and not a level designer, does it really have that much of an importance? What is your point of view on this? Any response would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
IMO the best practice to get a job is to pick a set of companies that have an art style that you enjoy doing, look what their job description is, focus on learning the skills needed and then add some topping on it by getting an understanding of surrounding fields.
Some artists add a cinematic as well, simply a camera moving through the environment to music.
These were some of the better submissions for the Ubisoft Nxt showcases here in Toronto.
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/2yraY
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/X9ZaD
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/GKxld
And I'm speaking quality wise, not what the studio felt was better since there are several factors that influence that especially if its a public competition
This one not for NXT showcase, but a great piece (the fire watch tower),
https://www.artstation.com/nassantobi123
Something along those lines is sufficient I think.
This is something to aim for, not to say that everyone who had a successful application had exactly this.
For example, this is a classmate that got in to the same studio around the time of the detective office scene I linked.
He had no environments, only props.
https://www.artstation.com/theomills
Mind you the market (applicants vs number of studios + other influencing factors) determines the quality and amount of applicants hired.
Its always best to cast a wider net with a great portfolio if you truly want a job that values your potential and gives you the responsibility you need to challenge yourself.
Being hired at a studio for a job isn't necessarily the only benchmark of how good you are as an artist.
That said I cannot guarantee that once your in the studio you'll be doing work that is of the same calibre of what you applied with, really depends on the studio.
A lot of studio work is more focused on getting the task done quickly and efficiently, than achieving artistic brilliance and world renown.
For example, this is a typical task at one of them according to the artist I just linked.
https://80.lv/articles/tips-on-modeling-reusable-assets-for-video-games/
If anything environment art at these studios is a whole lot like basic architecture visualisation, rinse and repeat.
Many artists today do focus on creating a brand that goes beyond the work they do at a studio.
A good example of this is Keos Masons
https://www.artstation.com/ced66
Environment artwise I'd say
https://www.artstation.com/scotthomer
Thanks for your comment. It all makes perfect sense, and the 'burrito-pizza' metaphor that you used made it crystal clear.
I really appreciate your answer. It's so descriptive and I feel that you truly hit the point with it. I don't know how to tell you to what extent I am grateful for you for this pointer.
Thanks for your response. You were really awesome this time too and truly got into the details. I'm so grateful for your kindliness and I appreciate your time.
All that you wrote above make sense to me. Those environments you linked are gorgeous. They look really cool, but from an environment point of view, if you put something like a diorama in UE4, it's nice, but not playable.
So, what I'm trying to find out is that it's not impossible to get inside with having only scenes and props, but if only one guy was able to show a working level, which is not ultimately awful from the art perspective, then he/she would be the number pick, right?
P.S.: Thanks for all those portfolios you've linked! They are truly nice and have so many inspirational pieces.
It was made in far cry's editor for a level design position.
I don't think the applicant got the position (not sure of the reason) but its a great example of what you're looking for.
Though I think you mean to make all your own assets and create something along these lines?
Thought I'd share if it helps!
If you did manage to do all that to that extreme, it would definitely help, but make sure you have good breakdowns of assets and materials.
A lot of factors affect why a studio picks an applicant. Market, politics, budget you name it.
There are cases where an applicants portfolio might never come up even if they are a better fit for the role.
Sometimes a studio may ask you what your salary expectation is knowing fully well they couldn't afford anything above a certain maximum, and then not negotiate further for whatever reason.
From the NXT showcase alone I know of several applicants that were way worthier than the ones selected for apprenticeships. Its not like all the finalists were accommodated even if the company had openings going forward.
I mean if you think about it several artists currently in studio could easily be replaced by someone who could do their job. There are relatively few who have very specialised and exclusive skill sets.
For instance many are learning the ropes of substance designer, but there's this one chap that made a viking axe using designer alone.
https://polycount.com/discussion/204051/substance-designer-viking-axe
Most environment artists wouldn't dream of doing that let alone go the long haul to achieve it in this way.
But despite all this you should do your very best. I would say work towards a diorama and good presentation with beauty shots and make an application while to continue to add playability.
Actually those dioramas you saw in the portfolios I linked were all built to general playable standards which may change depending on what a studio wants, so in most diorama's the playability is demonstrated to a reasonable extent.
I don't believe you'd have to submit a playable level for them to test, unless they asked as part of an art test.
If you're talking about interactivity that's another matter, but that work is usually done by someone specific to that role.
In fact a lot of what you'd do for a game level is done by many people together in a studio as explained by that 80 level article about level building at Ubisoft Toronto.
I find it bizarre sometimes as to why portfolio expectations veer so far from the job expected, but sometimes I feel its just an excuse to filter candidates, though the best companies are proactive enough to leverage the full potential of their hires
This link might give a better idea of what is expected from a environment artist portfolio, mind you its best practice and not the rule, applicants have been hired with way less.
http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/PortfolioContents
The "tell a story bit" is important, though if you're working from a good conceptual reference like this,
https://polycount.com/discussion/comment/2650968#Comment_2650968
the reference has already told the story and all you need to do is capture it.
Suffice to say in most AAA studios as an environment/prop artist you won't be doing any story telling, unless you move into environment concept art/level design and even those roles have considerable direction from leads.
Thanks again. I kinda' feel bad that I might take too much of your time. I bet that you might have so much other and more important things to do than answering my questions. Anyway, I'm so grateful for all your pointers.
The video is exactly what I was talking about. I didn't mean to present a level of an actual game, but to have an environment which has a 'gamei' style. The level in the vid has a multiplayer feeling, because I can see accessible buildings, elements of nature, mindful placement of shapes, silhouettes, cover system, etc. So, in one word, it's not only a scene or a landscape, but also not as detailed and polished than those. And that's the thing I cannot decipher, which is more important, the aesthetics, or having that actual game gaming sensation.
As for the studios and the level of quality of their employees, I have absolutely no info. I bet that there is a whole plethora of amazing artists who are unemployed, which is, without a doubt, a pity. And that substance designer guy is a real magician. However, he works at Intrepid, so he's got his well-deserved place.
Thank you for the links, by the way! The Portfolio Contents on environments, however, seem a bit general to me. I mean both realistic and stylized, and having modern urban, pristine nature, rough-hewn primitive town, sci-fi technical at the same time is something almost impossible. I guess this depends on the actual studio which I'm about to apply to. But correct me if I was wrong.
Althought, the visual story-telling factor is definitely a huge one! The most iconic games have that on the highest possible volume, and that's what I can call art! And this was a very useful hint, NikhilR, which I've not really been thinking of yet. So huge huge thank you again!
As an environment artist, you will be given direction and asked to match a reference.
On the level artist side, its like in the 80 level article, you white box and then integrate meshes from the model artist.
"accessible buildings, elements of nature, mindful placement of shapes, silhouettes, cover system, etc."
These have more to do with level design, and are planned by a level designer who works with you and your white box to realise the design in final.
You wouldn't be planning these out in studio unless that is your job.
However for your portfolio you may showcase that, just make sure not to confuse recruiters, in the sense that they see a playable demo video and wonder if you made any of the assets which would work towards the model artist position you applied for.
I think its best to say that environment artist is a broad term comprising of model artists for environments, level artists for environments and level designers for environments.
But what you need at minimal is some nice looking diorama configured for playability but not necessary showcasing playability.
Here's a job description for level artist, which seems to align with what you're looking for more,
https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Ubisoft2/113227279-level-artist
Consider that the experience does not require a game level, more modeling experience, even if all you'll be doing is whiteboxing, integration and applying texture sheets.
And model artist.
https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Ubisoft2/743999674523541-model-artist
And level designer
https://jobs.smartrecruiters.com/Ubisoft2/101661009-level-designer
Again this is studio specific, so might work differently in other studios.
Thanks for the info. From all what you wrote above, it seems to me that it's enough if I'd be able to produce a 3d version of a chosen 2d concept art. Is that correct?
My very first intuition at the beginning of my studies was the kinda' similar. I've always thought that for an environment artist position the main thing is to create nice and appealing models, which are coherent and consistent together, and then the level artist jumps in and makes something playable by utilizing those assets. And, if he has any additional specific requirement for that particular level, then he converses with the environment guy, and they make further amendments.
And what do you mean by 'looking diorama configured for playability but not necessary showcasing playability'? How could I make a diorama playable?
One last thought. I've been hearing from everywhere, especially from people who graduated from iconic schools, that networking is huge, because they are working with those people who were their classmates back at school. And without having those connections, they would never get hired. What's your point of view on this?
I liked the doll factory since it had good composition, organic and hard surface details, lots of wear and tear for a lived in look...
Basically everything that told a good story.
Level Designer, level artist and model artist work together, maybe not side by side, but kinda like level designer creates rough 2D layout with level artist whiteboxes as model artists make 3D assets out of 2D concepts that are approved.
It all develops in tandem (most of the time), not unusual for several hours of work to be scrapped, not make it into the final.
Usually you'd show up, do what you're assigned and leave that is all.
Its actually quite similar to what goes on in game dev schools particularly during group projects.
What I meant about an diorama configured for playability, is that you build it in unreal to playable scale.
like the fire watch tower was constructed in proportion to an unreal mannequin.
If an player character was added, he could go up the road, up the stairs and into the interior.
That and all the counts, textures, lightmaps are properly done and cohesive/
The networking bit is a bit of a mixed bag.
It really depends on the market, the more saturated the market the more likely knowing someone would better your chances.
Mind you if everyone's using this approach you're back to square 1, but this is also a very local way to look at it.
You may be good to apply to a few places (particularly architecture viz) with your current portfolio if you're looking for work.
All the same keep working on the portfolio which improves your network.
Again networking isn't a guarantee for a job, or for that much an ideal job experience.
I know of cases of artists who've gotten into a company because of networking and now can't keep up with the pacing or the workload. So they are miserable or simply go unnoticed for promotions etc.
Schools like Gnomon have built their reputation on their networking with prominent game studios so it may be a great deal easier for their students to get work immediately if their work is actually good and they have work authorisation to work in the USA.
Any school with alumni placed in the jobs you're aiming for is a good bet, provided it was the school that helped them get that job.
CGMA gives you a pretty good network too.
You could also make a trip to GDC to get a feel for the market there, and it has companies that come from around the world.
I doubt you'd have to do too much in person networking though, start with your local market and at the same time apply to studios outside of that as well.
Your posts on polycount are a kind of networking too.
Can't really say too much about the going for beers, smoking together networking.
I usually value a network that appreciates good honest work and has similar artistic goals
thanks again, for the 100th time
That playable diorama thing makes sense. And thanks for the hint on the 2d to 3d part. The artwork you showed me is really cool. I might venture to replicate.
As for the networking, I understand your point. Here, at Vanarts we'd also have the chance show our work for studios. Our teachers would take us on a tour to EA, but I, personally, doubt that I'd reap any benefits from that. I'm not Canadian, and not the best in the world either. So chances for me to get something out of it is pretty vague. In addition, EA is a juggernaut and they can recruit talents anytime. They have plenty of applicants from what they can pick one.
And, unfortunately, when I return to my homeland, Hungary, I'll have absolutely no chance for personal networking. In my country, there are no studios and no events of that sort. Only Playit, but that is only for gamers, not developers. By the way, you mentioned that I can network through CGMA. What do you mean by that? Did you mean chatting with my instructors and my classmates? And what do you mean by that tour at GDC? Because it's been held in San Fransisco and the entry fees are extortionate, so that I cannot afford it
So that could go a long way.
For alumni, or any artist currently working in a studio you want to work at, simply write to them either on linkedin/polycount, more often than no you'd get a response which you can then follow up on over time.
For Hungary, perhaps start a local GDC chapter or a game jam if there isn't already one. That could be a means to join a start up and get some team experience.
About GDC I meant at a later time since its an opportunity to meet several artists and studios under one roof.
You have the rest of EU, I'm sure there are events similar to GDC in other EU states that provide networking opportunities.
Thanks again. The CGMA networking sounds fun. I hope that it'll go in a similar way. I'm really looking forward to getting acquainted with my fellow classmates. I'm really craving for an environment where I can meet, chat and brainstorm with people who have the same interests, taste and passionate about the same thing that drives me too. And this is the main disadvantage in my homeland. In Hungary, some people are playing, but in terms of development, it's the most desolate place I've ever seen
Thank you for your response. That Wiki link is really useful, I haven't seen it yet. I just registered today though, but this forum will definitely be on my daily to-do list.
However, I couldn't have opened the other link what you've shared. The 'list of members of polycount'. What is that about exactly, by the way?
Thanks again. I cannot tell you how I appreciate all the time that you invested in writing down those detailed bits of advice for me. I'm so grateful!
My main scope, until the end of my course at CGMA, is to have 2 pieces of really great environments. I'm aiming for one, which has a lot of organic stuff and architecture, and another one which is more sci-fi related. I guess it's beneficial to show both organic and hard-surface modeling skills. However, I'm terrible at hard-surface; organic modeling is my thingie.
By the way, with without showcasing only a small amount of hard surface modeling, but mainly organic and architecture stuff, but on a high level, would ever get me any chance? Or, I guess, it depends on the actual studio itself, doesn't it?
Edit: the course here, at Vanarts, is really good. I'm not trying to give it a bad review at all. My only concern is that first half what we spend with exploration, because I already have a clear goal in mind. But it's really intense, and students here are pushed to perform at their absolute best. And yes, I can totally agree with your point, the portfolio is the winning card. And for an environment artist 'wannabe', it's possible without making a functional game with all the additional elements to it.
Thanks again. I cannot tell you how I appreciate all the time that you invested in writing down those detailed bits of advice for me. I'm so grateful!
My main scope, until the end of my course at CGMA, is to have 2 pieces of really great environments. I'm aiming for one, which has a lot of organic stuff and architecture, and another one which is more sci-fi related. I guess it's beneficial to show both organic and hard-surface modeling skills. However, I'm terrible at hard-surface; organic modeling is my thingie.
By the way, with without showcasing only a small amount of hard surface modeling, but mainly organic and architecture stuff, but on a high level, would ever get me any chance? Or, I guess, it depends on the actual studio itself, doesn't it?
Edit: the course here, at Vanarts, is really good. I'm not trying to give it a bad review at all. My only concern is that first half what we spend with exploration, because I already have a clear goal in mind. But it's really intense, and students here are pushed to perform at their absolute best. And yes, I can totally agree with your point, the portfolio is the winning card. And for an environment artist 'wannabe', it's possible without making a functional game with all the additional stuff.