FN Five-SeveN Pistol

Kanni3d

Check out the rest of the final renders!
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xGw6m



Hey guys! Here's some progress for this pistol I'm working on (favorite pistol in counter-strike, heh).

Still contemplating whether I should have it field-strippable and do the inner frame, slide, and barrel/spring.

Let me know what you think

Kanni3d

Bit of an update - still need to get some clearer reference of the internals of the top of the lower frame, and complete the magazine


Low-res is complete too, about 5,000 tri's so far (without magazine, or internals done yet, probably going to hit around 6500-7000)

Kanni3d

Some more final HP tweaks. Did the magazine, and also just decided for the gun itself, to just do some basic internals that would be visible from a players view, rather than ultra detailed parts and pieces (it's also hard to find good, high-res references for the inside of the upper slide, firing mechanism, trigger group, rails etc!). 

With that, finished the LP and its uv's, coming in at 6,200 tris (woo, under my expectations, even with adding some more silhouette edges to certain elements).

Bakes incoming soon

Kanni3d

Bakes are done at 4k, but still holds up at 2k (everything in one UDIM).

Shrike

your bakes are too sharp for realtime, you see there is tons of aliasing in your normal renders. Id maybe do the side grips entirely in the normal too. Aside pretty good. Is it me or is it a bit flat tho?

Kanni3d

Shrike said:

your bakes are too sharp for realtime, you see there is tons of aliasing in your normal renders. Id maybe do the side grips entirely in the normal too. Aside pretty good. Is it me or is it a bit flat tho?

Yeah it seems so, the aliasing is due to just a screengrab/snipping tool, doesn't alias much in viewport But some edges could benefit from a fatter bevel, totally. All grips are baked into the normal, aside from the top slide's triangular extrusions (since that'd be closest to the players view, i imagined it'd be nice to see geometry there, rather than flat)

Thank you! Yeah unfortunately I did notice after not becoming so tunnel-visioned that the grip area is a bit more flat than reference.. hopefully im able to fix that after texturing/bakes to just push those edges out a bit without damaging anything.

MarcoAntonio

Hey Kanni3d, pretty nice job you have done here! There are some things though. In my opinion, those textures are too big.A weapon like this should look good with 1024x1024 textures.
Futhermore, Shrike is right. Those edges from the HP are too sharp. At close distance they may look good, but when you get away aliasing will get too noticeable. A way to solve this would for example get the HP to Zbrush and use inflate deformation just a bit. After baking, the new normals will react better to light.
Another problem I see is the Low poly. You can optimize it a bit more:

Kanni3d

MarcoAntonio said:

Hey Kanni3d, pretty nice job you have done here! There are some things though. In my opinion, those textures are too big.A weapon like this should look good with 1024x1024 textures.
Futhermore, Shrike is right. Those edges from the HP are too sharp. At close distance they may look good, but when you get away aliasing will get too noticeable. A way to solve this would for example get the HP to Zbrush and use inflate deformation just a bit. After baking, the new normals will react better to light.
Another problem I see is the Low poly. You can optimize it a bit more:

Thanks for the feedback man! A lot of those edges are due to just wanting a nice silhouette. From that angle, the grip looks linear - but has a slight bend there (but more importantly, edges are there to support the skewing from the knurling floaters). I agree with the trigger though, that's always facing away, could be quite less! Oh, also quite a lot of modern FPS games use 4k textures for their viewmodel textures, but I'm only baking at 4k to downscale nicely at 2k since it looks just fine at 2k.

But yeah thanks for pointing that out - during the entire modeling process, I was quite aware and careful regarding hard/tight edges. I'm pretty sure this aliasing is just from the low quality snipping tool screen grabs, it'll come out much better once the real renders come in

MarcoAntonio

Kanni3d said:

Thanks for the feedback man! A lot of those edges are due to just wanting a nice silhouette. From that angle, the grip looks linear - but has a slight bend there (but more importantly, edges are there to support the skewing from the knurling floaters). I agree with the trigger though, that's always facing away, could be quite less!  Oh, also quite a lot of modern FPS games use 4k textures for their viewmodel textures, but I'm only baking at 4k to downscale nicely at 2k since it looks just fine at 2k.

Well. You don´t really need that amount of polygon to get a nice curvature on the silhouette. And for the textures resolution, that is not really true. It is true that there are some fps that lets you have 4k textures BUT, a wapon of this size does not really need it. It is good to make bakes with 1k more than your budget limits but well...That is usually 2k for a weapon like this. Imagine that, in your game, you have a weapon like this and a machine gun. If you let both weapons have 4k textures, don´t you think that your machine gun would look off? With less detail than your weapon? (of course....). 

Kanni3d

MarcoAntonio said:

Kanni3d said:

Thanks for the feedback man! A lot of those edges are due to just wanting a nice silhouette. From that angle, the grip looks linear - but has a slight bend there (but more importantly, edges are there to support the skewing from the knurling floaters). I agree with the trigger though, that's always facing away, could be quite less!  Oh, also quite a lot of modern FPS games use 4k textures for their viewmodel textures, but I'm only baking at 4k to downscale nicely at 2k since it looks just fine at 2k.

Well. You don´t really need that amount of polygon to get a nice curvature on the silhouette. And for the textures resolution, that is not really true. It is true that there are some fps that lets you have 4k textures BUT, a wapon of this size does not really need it. It is good to make bakes with 1k more than your budget limits but well...That is usually 2k for a weapon like this. Imagine that, in your game, you have a weapon like this and a machine gun. If you let both weapons have 4k textures, don´t you think that your machine gun would look off? With less detail than your weapon? (of course....). 

Yeah after the inital game-res pass, some elements were looking blocky and distracting - even though this would be aimed for a viewmodel perspective, I'd still like it to look good from all angles in the renders. But oh yeah for sure, a sidearm has much less 'texture space' than a rifle, i agree  

Kanni3d

Adjusted the topology a bit to fix skewing, and removed some more loops, and softened some harder looking edges on the high res   thanks @MarcoAntonio and @Shrike

5,003 tris

Alex_J

The modeling itself looks good to me, aside from what others mentioned. But if you were going for a perfect replica, there are a few errors. 

If you still want hi-res photos of the internals (and so you can see some small details you missed/got wrong), feel free to send me a PM. I've got a MK2 that I meant to make a model of myself someday, and so I don't mind taking some good reference photos of and can share.

Kanni3d

BIGTIMEMASTER said:

The modeling itself looks good to me, aside from what others mentioned. But if you were going for a perfect replica, there are a few errors. 

If you still want hi-res photos of the internals (and so you can see some small details you missed/got wrong), feel free to send me a PM. I've got a MK2 that I meant to make a model of myself someday, and so I don't mind taking some good reference photos of and can share.

Thank you Which errors did you spot? I kind of just figured to forego the perfect 1:1 replica, not much point to doing that at my skill level.

I think the five-seven itself has gotten very unique/proprietary internals as well which makes it difficult to get good reference, if any at all. If you want to open up your MK2 for me and screenshot some parts, that would be very appreciated! Although, would've been handy in the modeling phase of things, but I'd still love to see some high-res shots of its insides

Alex_J

1. The safety selector should be ambidextrous -- one of the great things about the 5.7. Looks identical on both sides. 
2. The magazine catch extends flush with the polymer mold on the right side. 
3. On the right side, there shouldn't be the cut where on the other side the field stripping lever is(not sure of official name). 
4. On the opposite side of the ejection port, there is a small pin that pokes upwards when a round is chambered.

Couple other things -- and maybe you just haven't gotten to these yet but I'll mention them in case you overlooked:

Serial number goes on the metal inset piece above the accessory rail. 
Trigger gets small horizontal serrations. 


I think that was it? To my eye, I think some of the parts like the slide catch weren't absolutely perfect in proportion, but it's probably close enough anyhow. I'll take some photos tomorrow. Is it ok if I post them on here? Maybe useful for anybody else who has trouble finding good reference in the future.

Kanni3d

BIGTIMEMASTER said:

1. The safety selector should be ambidextrous -- one of the great things about the 5.7. Looks identical on both sides. 
2. The magazine catch extends flush with the polymer mold on the right side. 
3. On the right side, there shouldn't be the cut where on the other side the field stripping lever is(not sure of official name). 
4. On the opposite side of the ejection port, there is a small pin that pokes upwards when a round is chambered.

Couple other things -- and maybe you just haven't gotten to these yet but I'll mention them in case you overlooked:

Serial number goes on the metal inset piece above the accessory rail. 
Trigger gets small horizontal serrations. 


I think that was it? To my eye, I think some of the parts like the slide catch weren't absolutely perfect in proportion, but it's probably close enough anyhow. I'll take some photos tomorrow. Is it ok if I post them on here? Maybe useful for anybody else who has trouble finding good reference in the future.

Oh! I forgot to mention I'm using symmetrical uv's for those parts, (safety select/mag release) so they're not there when I'm texturing! But yeah, the mag release is flush on the right side, which i'd have to squash, but still able to keep symmetrical uv's for. The pin IS there, but flush, as the gun isn't technically loaded. 

3. I genuinely fucked up, as i realized realllll late into the project, that that element isn't ambidextrous and is unique to the left side.
Serial number is coming, just needs to be stamped on and yeah, vertical serrations - whoops

Good eye! thank you for pointing those out

Alex_J

No worries. Maybe making the thing look cool is more important than exact detail, assuming it's a game model. But really good reference can help ensure you get the details perfect if that is important, so hopefully these (attached images) can help you or somebody else in the future. 

There's a lot and they are large, so I had to zip them to be able to upload. These would be useful for anybody studying modern weapon material properties, not just the 5.7 specifically.

Note : This is the MK2 model, which AFAIK is the latest version since 2013. Keep in mind if you are cross referencing with other photos, there may be minor variations between versions of the weapon.

Kanni3d

BIGTIMEMASTER said:

No worries. Maybe making the thing look cool is more important than exact detail, assuming it's a game model. But really good reference can help ensure you get the details perfect if that is important, so hopefully these (attached images) can help you or somebody else in the future. 

There's a lot and they are large, so I had to zip them to be able to upload. These would be useful for anybody studying modern weapon material properties, not just the 5.7 specifically.

Note : This is the MK2 model, which AFAIK is the latest version since 2013. Keep in mind if you are cross referencing with other photos, there may be minor variations between versions of the weapon.

Details, and having attention to detail, is pretty important in my books, so that reference is extra handy and very appreciated!

Yeah - i guess its not too big of a deal - maybe the slide release is ambidex now :P

And yeah your totally right, MK2 has a few slight design changes especially in some of the internals I think (they made it easier to field strip, rails are easier to slide back on.. etc)

Alex_J

Yeah, it's super easy to field strip. You can do it with one hand almost and with like two steps total. Everything about the gun is easy. Easy to shoot, easy to clean.. the only thing not easy is finding one and then paying $1,000 for it. 

Also, one other note -- the flash was on when i took these photos so keep in mind that under ordinary lighting conditions, you don't see so much noise variation on the finish. 

Kanni3d

BIGTIMEMASTER said:

Yeah, it's super easy to field strip. You can do it with one hand almost and with like two steps total. Everything about the gun is easy. Easy to shoot, easy to clean.. the only thing not easy is finding one and then paying $1,000 for it. 

Also, one other note -- the flash was on when i took these photos so keep in mind that under ordinary lighting conditions, you don't see so much noise variation on the finish. 

not to mention how expensive + scarce its ammunition is, eh?

and yeah! But that helps determine its definition as polymer, hard to pull off in texturing  

Kanni3d

Took in everyones feedback, thank you guys once again! Texturing is more or less done - time for a bit of presentation work/rendering

Kanni3d

Quick update on where presentation/rendering is going Just gotta texture the case/rounds and set up proper lighting!

Kanni3d

Had some time before work to mess about with the lighting some more, case textures aren't looking fully correct though. 

Kanni3d

Some more work on its lighting, would love any feedback on it  

Alex_J

The presentation seems underwhelming. To me, my favorite thing about the 5.7 is it's sleek profile. It has a simple but pretty distinctive profile. I wonder is there a way you could show that off more? The gun almost has a futuristic feel to it, IMO, and maybe that could be accentuated with some sharper lights, maybe some blueish tints or something? Like an indoor range in some badass, underground FBI training facility? Just some random thoughts.

Oh, just noticed your magazines have the bullet counters, but the holes are filled. Those are actually hollow so the user can see how many rounds are inside.

Kanni3d

BIGTIMEMASTER said:

The presentation seems underwhelming. To me, my favorite thing about the 5.7 is it's sleek profile. It has a simple but pretty distinctive profile. I wonder is there a way you could show that off more? The gun almost has a futuristic feel to it, IMO, and maybe that could be accentuated with some sharper lights, maybe some blueish tints or something? Like an indoor range in some badass, underground FBI training facility? Just some random thoughts.

Oh, just noticed your magazines have the bullet counters, but the holes are filled. Those are actually hollow so the user can see how many rounds are inside.

Oh definitely- this was just one shot and trying to just get nice lighting for it. I'm setting up more shots/renders to show some more close ups and what not with the gun of course heh.

Indeed, about the round counter on the magazines, but that's a detail that isn't too necessary as in game it'd barely be seen/inspected. Plus would be too costly to either model that geo in, or use alphas. But it did pain me to skip that sort of detail!

Alex_J

Well, depends on the game. I remember a game, can't recall what it was exactly, but in order to check your ammo count you had to drop the mag and look at the actual bullet counter holes. Very immersive. But, like you said, you are way past that and it's not such a crucial thing.

Kanni3d

BIGTIMEMASTER said:

Well, depends on the game. I remember a game, can't recall what it was exactly, but in order to check your ammo count you had to drop the mag and look at the actual bullet counter holes. Very immersive.

Yeah! I'd imagine Escape from Tarkov has that feature. No HUD, ultra realistic and what not.

bjporter

@Kanni3d
That final picture is insanely good. I'm seriously impressed. How many polygons total was the pistol?

Kanni3d

@bjporter
Hey thanks man! I def got lots to improve, and make some more art. It's about 6,200 triangles with some internal parts for gameplay + magazine

cookedpeanut

You said you wanted the silhouette to look good... So why not make a nice noir image with a side profile or something... 

Something like this, obviously not the right subject, but you get the idea...

Guns are always difficult to render since it always looks cliché when they're lying on their side with a bunch of bullets, and look awkward propped up because of the grip.

Kanni3d

cookedpeanut said:

Guns are always difficult to render since it always looks cliché when they're lying on their side with a bunch of bullets, and look awkward propped up because of the grip.

No kidding - there's a million ways to render them, could do stylized/fancy renders like you suggested! Though, I feel that kinda strays from game art, and leans more towards concept design.

Oh and by silhouette, I just simply mean more geometry spent on rounded elements, rather than low-res, chunky polygonal elements.