[3ds Max] Very annoying TurboSmooth issue

Wisegold

Hi there,
I have this kind of issue, it's very annoying, it make me crazy  >:)   actually I have Always this issue with these kind of geometry.
Somebody can help me, please.

CHEERS 

Burpee

well your topology seems okay, that's weird.





This should work fine edit : on a non-curved surface

poopipe

It's curved,  therefore you need more geometry 

Mark Dygert

Sure throwing more geo at it will probably solve the problem, or minimize it but I wonder if the face weighted normals would solve the issue?

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/improved-face-weighted-normals

pior

Well, redirecting loops over a curved surface will always cause this to happen.

All covered here : http://polycount.com/discussion/56014/how-the-f-do-i-model-this-reply-for-help-with-specific-shapes-post-attempt-before-asking/p1

musashidan

Just get rid of all the unnecessary geo and set up your smoothing groups. Set the chamfer mod to unsmoothed edges. Contrary to popular mythology, there is absolutely nothing wrong with N-gons on a sub-D surface. @Mark Dygert  knows what's up.

poopipe

I thought we were supposed to keep that trick secret? 

Altea

musashidan said:

Just get rid of all the unnecessary geo and set up your smoothing groups. Set the chamfer mod to unsmoothed edges. Contrary to popular mythology, there is absolutely nothing wrong with N-gons on a sub-D surface. @Mark Dygert  knows what's up.

How you did that chamfer?

Swordslayer

Altea said:

How you did that chamfer?

There are a few combinations of settings in the chamfer modifier that result in something like this. For example this one (packaged as a modifier preset for the lazy ones).

musashidan

poopipe said:

I thought we were supposed to keep that trick secret? 

I don't think it really matters. The N-gon myth is harder to kill than the Abrahamic myths.

Wisegold

musashidan said:

Just get rid of all the unnecessary geo and set up your smoothing groups. Set the chamfer mod to unsmoothed edges. Contrary to popular mythology, there is absolutely nothing wrong with N-gons on a sub-D surface. @Mark Dygert  knows what's up.

It's exactly what I did, I added just an edge connection in the corner. But I have still the issue. 

Wisegold

pior said:

Well, redirecting loops over a curved surface will always cause this to happen.

All covered here : http://polycount.com/discussion/56014/how-the-f-do-i-model-this-reply-for-help-with-specific-shapes-post-attempt-before-asking/p1

I don`t find the part about this issue... so basically I can't avoid this issue ?

musashidan

Remove those diagonal edges and leave the n-gon. Problem solved. See my post above.

Wisegold

musashidan said:

Remove those diagonal edges and leave the n-gon. Problem solved. See my post above.

The issue remain arghhhhhhh>:)

Altea

Wisegold, I think would help if you send us your mesh (dropbox etc). When the people try to reproduce it always is a different shape to what you show.

Wisegold

In attached FBX with low poly and Highpoly. Apply the turbosmooth to see the issue.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Q2_JvrtsrweoeJ0KEUFWpuhTI9m0hXIq

ridger_drift

I received a bunch of isolated vertices warnings when I used my approach to address your issue, and I couldn't quite remember how I dealt with that pesky problem, lol.  Anyhoo, here are my steps:

1) Select all hard edges (I did it via a script I use regularly) and set the Edge Crease value to 1.0 under Edge Properties and crank the Weight value to a high number.

2) Select all faces and set to Autosmooth of 32 degrees.

3) Apply Revel's "TurboChamfer Script" (https://gumroad.com/l/rJsZJ)

Hope this helps!  

Altea

removing this post as it was incorrect

Wisegold

ridger_drift said:

I received a bunch of isolated vertices warnings when I used my approach to address your issue, and I couldn't quite remember how I dealt with that pesky problem, lol.  Anyhoo, here are my steps:

1) Select all hard edges (I did it via a script I use regularly) and set the Edge Crease value to 1.0 under Edge Properties and crank the Weight value to a high number.

2) Select all faces and set to Autosmooth of 32 degrees.

3) Apply Revel's "TurboChamfer Script" (https://gumroad.com/l/rJsZJ)

Hope this helps!  

Really cool the script Turbo Chamfer, it`s work also on 3Ds Max 2016 ?
And you can give me the name of the script to get the hard edge selection ?

Altea

I under the impression you highlight doesn't reach the problematic area. I don't see the way of getting rid of those artifacts. Simply there are some cases worse than others.  That model is also the worse case scenario because the way the curves angle with the hard edge.

musashidan

Wisegold said:

And you can give me the name of the script to get the hard edge selection ?

http://www.scriptspot.com/3ds-max/scripts/hard-edges

Or for the ultimate control over smoothing groups/hard edges there's this: http://www.polytools3d.com/tools/polysmoother/index.html It's not free, but it's from the same dev as the fantastic Polyunwrapper plugin. It even has the visual polygroups from Zbrush.

musashidan

ridger_drift said:

1) Select all hard edges (I did it via a script I use regularly) and set the Edge Crease value to 1.0 under Edge Properties and crank the Weight value to a high number.

This is a redundant step. Edge weight/crease has no effect when using the chamfer/turbosmooth mod combo with unsmoothed edges and smoothing groups.

ridger_drift

musashidan said:

ridger_drift said:

1) Select all hard edges (I did it via a script I use regularly) and set the Edge Crease value to 1.0 under Edge Properties and crank the Weight value to a high number.

This is a redundant step. Edge weight/crease has no effect when using the chamfer/turbosmooth mod combo with unsmoothed edges and smoothing groups.

Redundant yes if I decide that TurboChamfer is what I want.  Not redundant if I decide to use OpenSubDiv and/or Turbosmooth instead.

musashidan

ridger_drift said:

musashidan said:

ridger_drift said:

1) Select all hard edges (I did it via a script I use regularly) and set the Edge Crease value to 1.0 under Edge Properties and crank the Weight value to a high number.

This is a redundant step. Edge weight/crease has no effect when using the chamfer/turbosmooth mod combo with unsmoothed edges and smoothing groups.

Redundant yes if I decide that TurboChamfer is what I want.  Not redundant if I decide to use OpenSubDiv and/or Turbosmooth instead.

Yes, but in your example steps, step 3 is apply Turbochamfer. Just clarifying so the OP isn't confused.

Also, @wisegold when using chamfer/turbosmooth mod combo, sometimes the standard chamfer will give better results than quad default. Especially for those nice, soft baking bevels.

Revel

@ridger_drift Thanks for mentioning TurboChamfer!

@musashidan Any particular case you were saying standard chamfer more useful then quad chamfer? Me particularly find the standard chamfer will create a slight curve on your supposedly-hard surface due to the fact that the chamfer bend the edges, unlike quad chamfer with 0 tension. if you do want the slight curve also I prefer to use quad chamfer with 0.5-0.6 tension, it'll create a better edge flow around the corner, which to me the standard chamfer's corner topology is just unacceptable with the pinching/ tris etc.

musashidan

@revel not really anything specific as it is very much a per-asset case. Sometimes I just find it gives better results in a bake on certain meshes. Now this could be 1 out of 20 parts of a single asset. I'm not concerned at all with proper edgeflow around corners as its only purpose is to give me good shading for my high bake mesh. If it looks good then I really don't care about the topology.