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Mudbox Tessellation

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  • oglu
  • antweiler
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    antweiler polycounter lvl 8
    Awesome, and great sculpt, Oglu! Hope this comes to Maya as well...
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Oh man, I can confirm how great that workflow is. Of course someone's probably going to be very helpful and clever, chiming in to say "muh dynamesh", but that's actually very different.

    For those interested in trying it for free, Blender has it too with the "Dyntopo" option in sculpt mode and it is a huuuuge time saver. It is especially valuable at the rough blockout stage, because unlike dynamesh this allows to have rough parts and refined parts at the same time - no need to subdivide everything, and everything remains lightweight and not blobby/mushy.

    Ironically enough this actually ties back to the workflow paradigm of Mudbox 1.07 (pre-Autodesk), relying heavily on gradual local subdivision as opposed to subdividing everything at once. Different implementation here but same great concept. Very cool.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    for me the hero feature is that it doesn merge geo taht is close together... like lips or eyelids... its no problem to model a fist and open the hand later on...

    its ideal for concept sculpting... or modifying scandata... 
  • Aabel
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    Aabel polycounter lvl 6
    Most excellent! now who will support Alembic first. 3D-Coat or Mudbox?
  • Axi5
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    Axi5 interpolator
    oglu said:
    for me the hero feature is that it doesn merge geo taht is close together... like lips or eyelids... its no problem to model a fist and open the hand later on...

    its ideal for concept sculpting... or modifying scandata... 

    Hey Oglu, thanks for the sculpt and update looking forward to giving this a go sometime! Out of curiousity how would you do the inverse of what you just said in Mudbox? Where you combine meshes that intersect?
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    Glad to see another sculpting app taking the Sculptris approach to dynamic topology.
    Giving a quick look over the release notes though I didn't see any way to punch holes through meshs or an optional way to merge intersecting faces?
  • Blond
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    Blond polycounter lvl 9
    Pe...people still use Mudbox? To be honest, since most Brush from MB had been sent to Maya, I really thought AutoDesk was about to kill it but it's good to know, they're still actively working on it.

    However, like pointed up earlier, I think it's really sad that a free to use general focused software like Blender had a similar feature years before it has been implemented in Mudbox, an actual sculpting focused software...-_-

    The only reason why I'd use Mb is probably because of it's very simple and user friendly interface...Zbrush feels a bit too cluttered and wonky for me...
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    @ Asix5 combine them in maya
    i use a lot maya modeling tools on those tessellation meshes and do further work in mudbox...
    there are no booleans in mudbox for now...
  • Ged
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    Ged interpolator
    pior said:

    Ironically enough this actually ties back to the workflow paradigm of Mudbox 1.07 (pre-Autodesk), relying heavily on gradual local subdivision as opposed to subdividing everything at once. Different implementation here but same great concept. Very cool.
    thats awesome, I used to use mudbox 1 back in the day, really loved it. Especially the interface.

    to reiterate what polyhertz said can we not combine meshes like dynamesh allows? I take it that comes under no boolean tools then.
  • Aabel
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    Aabel polycounter lvl 6
    pior said:


    Ironically enough this actually ties back to the workflow paradigm of Mudbox 1.07 (pre-Autodesk), relying heavily on gradual local subdivision as opposed to subdividing everything at once. Different implementation here but same great concept. Very cool.
    According to the blog post this update was done by the original pre-Autodesk Skymatter team. If that is the case, and they are back on mudbox, Zbrush better watch out. There is real demand in film and vfx for a more production friendly alternative to zbrush.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    zbrush and mudbox does complement each other really good... i use both on a daily basis...
    the new tesselation feature is also interesting for cleaning up and modifying scandata...
    scanned objects are a big thing in feature film enviroments... 
    at the moment it does whipe out the uvs but with some tricks you can get tham back later in maya...
    there are a lot of new posiblities now with mud... specially in concept sculpting...
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 8
    Autodesk disappointed so many users; now they add a feature. As someone who does use 3D Coat, there is still no hard surface modeling.

    Second Autodesk was hinting at adding these features to Maya, I suppose it was easier to add them to Mudbox. 

    Third, alot of long standing Mudbox users including myself dropped subscription because Autodesk didn't give a timeline, they didn't inform us of nothing a few years ago.  It would be nice if those whom dropped out within the past 2-3 years could if they desired get back on subscription for a discount; and tell those who desire to come back to subscription, hint at what Autodesk plans are for Mudbox; not as many had to suffer with empty releases in the past.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    mud is for 10 bucks a month on subscription... there is no other option... i invest much more money in beer...  :D
  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 16
    yeh its pretty much the cheapest out of the big 3 sculpting package out there. To me Mudbox is more production friendly in VFX/film. I was so impressed at how fast the loading time for the files are. I actually cant wait to use 2018.2 at work.
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    Interesting times indeed.

    As far as I am concerned I am willing to be pleasantly surprised, but not willing to give them any $ in advance. I stopped regularly updating Mudbox at version 2012 because bugs kept creeping in across releases, and some features even got removed at some point. And last time I checked (version 2017 or so ?) the overall performance took a nose dive - so, thanks but no thanks.

    2012 still runs fine, and I now use it exclusively for ... faces. Everything else I now do mostly directly in Blender, with a little bit of Zbrush.

    Keeping a close eye on this new release for sure - let's see what they can do.
  • gavku
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    gavku polycounter lvl 18
    Good to hear a bunch of the OG mudbox dev crew are back working on it now. 
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 8
    Last version for me was 2017; so I could maybe jump back on the train. Hard surface modeling in the works ?
  • Wesley
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    Wesley polycounter lvl 14
    oglu said:
    zbrush and mudbox does complement each other really good... i use both on a daily basis...
    the new tesselation feature is also interesting for cleaning up and modifying scandata...
    scanned objects are a big thing in feature film enviroments... 
    at the moment it does whipe out the uvs but with some tricks you can get tham back later in maya...
    there are a lot of new posiblities now with mud... specially in concept sculpting...
    Yeah, this is part of their reinvestment (I assume). Cool to see!
    https://80.lv/articles/autodesk-decides-to-reinvest-in-mudbox/
  • Mark Dygert
    Wow, impressive. I've always liked Mudbox, it has an easier to use/learn interface that falls in line with almost all other tools. But it just never kept up with what the industry needs. It has always been 2 steps behind and not stable enough or feature complete, to build a pipeline around.

    It's baking tools are still a slow sluggish nightmare. 
    It kicks zBrush's ass at painting materials but it doesn't support PBR materials or the workflow.
    It doesn't come close to Substance Painter for materials, layers, masking, generators and particle painting.

    There is a lot of ground to cover to make up for where the industry is at now, but not so far that they can't bring it up to spec. A lot of that viewport and rendering work could translate back into Maya and Max so it's not a waste, they both desperately need it.

    Their pricing model probably can't compete with zBrush. No one can compete with "rich dude is willing to sell at a loss to be the industry leader". Still, I bought Mudbox v1 and zBrush v1.2. Two guesses which one still gives me access to the latest version without charging me anything. I feel guilty for keeping zBrush current, but paying to be a Mudbox beta tester again, no thanks.
  • rino
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    rino polycounter lvl 12
    man that's so cool to hear, mudbox is great, pretty decent texturing tools as well. everything for 10 bucks, duuuuuuuude.

    blender has similar thing, it's great, but slow as dick.
  • starcow
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    starcow polycount sponsor
    I just wanted to try it but actually I can't find the tesselation-option in the 30-day-trial version of mudbox 2018. Is the tesselation-option not included in the trial version? Can anybody confirm this?
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    there is no trial for 2018.2
  • pior
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    pior grand marshal polycounter
    "everything for 10 bucks"

    Hmmm, not quite.
  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 16
    Zbrush just blew Mudbox out of the water with the new sculptris pro. Sad day for Mudbox fans. Dynamic tesselation was the only hero feature that mudbox was showing off. But out comes Zbrush and just brushes everything aside.
  • PolyHertz
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    PolyHertz polycount lvl 666
    Zbrush just blew Mudbox out of the water with the new sculptris pro. Sad day for Mudbox fans. Dynamic tesselation was the only hero feature that mudbox was showing off. But out comes Zbrush and just brushes everything aside.

    I hadn't heard about that until just now. As one of the original beta testers of Sculptris, and a big proponent of the app before the Pixologic buyout, I'm really glad to see its technology finally get revived like this (even if it's just a mode in ZBrush now). :)

    But yea, not a good day for Autodesk.
  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 16
     Zbrush just bitchslaped Mudbox and Shat on its face.
  • CreativeSheep
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    CreativeSheep polycounter lvl 8
    Now there even.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    i dont see any issues to use mudbox and zbrush side by side... they still both needed in my workflow... mudbox is needed for shot sculpting and displacement... blendshapes and texturing... 
  • onionhead_o
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    onionhead_o polycounter lvl 16
    of course theres no issue with using mudbox. I use it at work as well and will continuing to do so. But dynamic tessellation was Mudbox 2018.2 hero feature that was suppose to turn heads and reinvigorate the subscription base.
    Now that Sculptris is implemented into zbrush, that feature doesnt feel so hero anymore.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    turning heads.? i dont think so... artists dont jump from one software to an other only if there are some new features... 


  • cjadams
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    cjadams polycounter lvl 2
    keep in mind that the sculptris stuff can't be really used in pipeline work.. you still would need to retopo stuff from zbrush.. im not sure if mb fairs better with their way of doing the dynamic sculpting or not?  i know the zbrush tutorials said the sculptris stuff totally kills any good uv's and topology .. 
  • Brian "Panda" Choi
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    Brian "Panda" Choi high dynamic range
    cjadams said:
    keep in mind that the sculptris stuff can't be really used in pipeline work.. you still would need to retopo stuff from zbrush.. im not sure if mb fairs better with their way of doing the dynamic sculpting or not?  i know the zbrush tutorials said the sculptris stuff totally kills any good uv's and topology .. 
    The Mudbox tesselation seems to tesselate in the same way, at least with the triangle making.
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    tessellation is like dynamesh a disign feature... 
    if you need a clean topo for animation or a game res mesh you need todo a retopo... 
    and that is nothing special... there are enough good tools for retopo out there...

    here a vid i did to show how such a workflow could look like... with half automated retopo..


  • MM
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    MM polycounter lvl 18
    oglu said:
    tessellation is like dynamesh a disign feature... 
    if you need a clean topo for animation or a game res mesh you need todo a retopo... 
    and that is nothing special... there are enough good tools for retopo out there...

    here a vid i did to show how such a workflow could look like... with half automated retopo..


    you missed a . after your last sentence

    regarding Mudbox, after all this years they release this feature in such a half ass way
    it does not let us do any boolean like operation such as cutting through one mesh to have two separate mesh elements or deleting parts of mesh or joining multiple elements together
  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    its a .2 release... maybe there is more for 2019... maybe... 

    i see the missing . is now in your avatar...
  • MM
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    MM polycounter lvl 18
    is this mainly for concept sculpting ? i mean like what you ended up in that video does not really seem like production ready in any way. what am i supposed to do with this ?

    i have a annual subscription but have 2018.2 update sitting and catching dust mainly beacause i havent had to time to redo all my hotkeys, brushes, stamps, stencils, etc. basically re-create my whole user profile from scratch. also what Pior said.

    i dont see any way to transfer my old profile to new mudbox. i would think autodesk would spend more time on something like preset/profile manager to have this sorted. we only been asking for more than a decade. if there is a way to do this please let me know, other wise I will wait for an update that is worth the trouble.


  • oglu
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    oglu polycount lvl 666
    yes its for concept sculpting or something that does not need a topo... i used it a lot for rocks and terrain in the past...
    it does also work for cleaning scandata...

    you could try to copy over the hotkey save files... but there is no realy clean way todo that...

    i would update only for the bugfixes... they invested a lot in stability...
  • pixelquaternion
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    pixelquaternion polycounter lvl 6
    oglu said:
    @ Asix5 combine them in maya
    i use a lot maya modeling tools on those tessellation meshes and do further work in mudbox...
    there are no booleans in mudbox for now...

    That's the reason i use Blender since they have cool boolean addons for sculpt, it's such a pity we have to work in so many softwares to get a simple job done.
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