Retopology / high res / baking workflow for rookie? Bad Mesh + Many Softwares + Game Engines

GoLionMk2

Hi Poly-Pros.
This is my first post but I promise to stick around.
I'm here asking for help on how not to totally suck at rendering models in game engines!

[ugly rendering of VR LION in Unreal -- exported OBJ from Oculus Medium]

Here's my scenario:

I have models from a number of places (CAD programs, VR sculpting in Oculus Medium), and when bringing them into game engines they look really bad.

From research so far, my general understanding is that to create good looking game models, I need to do some combination of the following:

1. retopologize meshes (I didn't model the meshes so topology is bad as far as I can tell)
2. somehow 'bake' lighting / shadow from high rez mesh into file 
3. apply this mesh onto a lower res mesh
4. bring all these files into the  game engine.

Sounds easy haha! But I am totally lost.

Software I have access to is: Maya and Max (at home) and Zbrush and Cinema4D (at school).
Although I am a 3D generalist, I'm a super n00b at modeling and texturing / rendering.

If anyone can help me figure out what I should learn first, and what software workflow would be best, I'd really appreciate it.

p.s. here's an example of a bad looking model rendered in Unreal

https://youtu.be/2aVsuCv7buc

Alex_J

Check the wiki on this site for a good overview. 

Game character modeling is a lot of steps. It could be described in just a few major steps, but each of those composed of more steps, like a Russian doll. Also, you don't have to make a high-res sculpt and retopo and bake. That is how modern AAA characters are made - but I think for a beginner it may be more beneficial to make characters without all of that in the beginning. This will teach you a lot of good prerequisite knowledge that you may blow past if you go straight into Zbrush.

I'd recommend starting out with step-by-step tutorials. You won't get it all in one tutorial. It will take a few (I'd think at least a month or two of just doing every tutorial you can get your hands on), and then you'll need to practice by making some of your own models. Your first models will suck, but there is a lot of steps involved in the entire process, and many depend on one another, and until you've made a ton of mistakes you won't know all the things you didn't know that you needed to know.

Which tutorials? There's a lot, and you can find plenty of suggestions by searching this forum (i think there is sticky threads with tutorials) or google searching also. I always recommend pluralsight because that's what I've found most consistently useful for me. 

I'm not a professional or an expert, but this is more or less how I have learned so far, although the recommendation to learn basic character modeling before sculpting is a "lesson learned the hard way" type of thing. 


The link is a series of courses on pluralsight that will get you up to speed on good modeling practices (for animated characters).
https://www.pluralsight.com/paths/maya-character-modeling

GoLionMk2

Hi BIGTIMEMASTER,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm with you 100% on learning the basics. The only catch is the software I'm using (Oculus Medium) is so intuitive that I've already made the models. I'm hoping to show them in a 'virtual gallery' type thing in a month, so my main priority at this point is learning how to fix mesh / topology / UV and rendering, rather than becoming a great modeler (yet).

My apologies if this isn't the best forum to post for this -- I know this forum has a lot of incredible modelers. if you have any other tips on the above (getting meshes fixed / rendering well) I'm all ears.

Thanks again for your time.
 

Mink

Herein lies your first problem. You HAVE to learn normal modelling before you can learn retopology to do anything with sculpting. You HAVE to learn how to model something from scratch, how to have GOOD topology, how to retopogize your model, and then go a really good job of UVUnwrappinh your Topology, so that you can feed Xnormal or whatever program your retopolgized model and your high poly and it can spit out a Normal, Curvature, and Ambient Occlusion texture. I reccomend you use blender.


Good luck. Took me 6 months to get to that point, so get to work.

GoLionMk2

Hey Mink,
Thanks for the reply. 
Thanks for the straight truth. I'm in!

Do you have a favourite Blender tut. series? Can I see your works?

Much thanks

Mink

I'm gonna be honest, I don't really have one. Normally I'd reccomend the full blender guru tutorial, but it teaches subsurface modeling, which is bad for polycounts, learning and topology. Just search up youtube and get started. Good luck.

Alex_J

GoLionMk2 said:

Hi BIGTIMEMASTER,

 my main priority at this point is learning how to fix mesh / topology / UV and rendering, rather than becoming a great modeler (yet).

You need to get yourself educated on the lingo!

All of these things you are talking about are part of modeling. Except rendering. Rendering is a whole different thing, but there is no point worrying about that if you have nothing modeled that is worth rendering. UV unwrapping follows your modeling. You aren't going to get that if you don't know modeling.

It's like this: If you don't know basic framing (in carpentry), you can't go into a in-progress jobsite and expect to fix things up and then put on a roof. You build the house from the ground up, and everything depends on getting the framing right. There is just no way around it. If you try to get around, you'll only be wasting your own time as you'll end up having to restart and come back to the beginning.

GoLionMk2

Hey BIGTIMEMASTER,
thanks for the feedback and analogy.

Are the following your suggestions then:

1. Forget the VR voxel sculpting now

2. Learn basic poly modelling 

3. Eventually, when I am good at basic carpentry, I can retopologize the VR sculpts (carpentry) and eventually get to rendering (putting a roof on the house)?

If so, do you share Mink's suggestion for Blender, or do you have a CAD package you prefer for getting the basics down?

I have educational access to Maya and Max too, but the open source thing is nice. 

p.s. checked out your Bobcat sculpt-- really nice! Did you ever end up rendering it in an engine?

Alex_J

GoLionMk2 said:

p.s. checked out your Bobcat sculpt-- really nice! Did you ever end up rendering it in an engine?

No, that was something I made when I was first learning how to using sculpting tools in Zbrush. I doubt I still have that model. But I'll be making some similar animal models in the near future, which I'm really amped about.


EDIT -- sorry, somehow I thought your questions were for somebody else.

I am not sure what your final goals are, so I can't recommend a learning path. Also, I don't know anything about VR. Also also, I am just on the other side of raw beginner so I only know my own path, while somebody whose been around for a long time probably knows many ways and perhaps better ways to get to where you want to go.

In order to retopologize a model, you have to know topology. So yeah, starting with a lot of modeling 101 tutorials would be ideal for that. Then when you understand that you can find some instruction covering tools you can use for retopology. Justin Marshall just came out with a new course on pluralsight about that, and I think he makes excellent videos, so that is something to look at in the future. If you just had to get this thing done right away, you could probably follow along the tutorials and maybe get your character retopo'd good enough for your purpose, but if you really want to learn, I'd go with a more comprehensive route starting at the basics.

JM's got probably more than a dozen tutorials covering 101 modeling on that website, both in Maya and some other programs as well (i only ever use Maya). 

Which program to use? That depends again on your goals. If you have those in mind, you can probably find a suitable answer by searching this forum or google, otherwise you can ask in an alternate thread and relevant people can probably answer.

GoLionMk2

Hey much thanks again for the response.

I've just checked out Marshall's stuff -- really nice models! I'll def. look into the plualsight tutorials.
I'm with you 100% on topology and the modeling 101. I guess I'll get started.

Thanks again for the helpful feedback.
- look forward to seeing your next animal models!