Using Marmoset maps in Substance.

guitarguy00
polycounter lvl 2
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guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
Hey guys, I really like using Substance Painter for my texturing but I find the baker(especially for the normal and AO) is too slow and you can't expand/retract the cage in real time like Marmoset Toolbag. Marmoset can bake all the required maps that Substance needs(position, world space normal, material ID, curvature etc) except for thickness and I was wonderin whether there are any drawbacks or anything I have to change in the settings so that Substance uses the Marmoset maps properly? I did notice Substance baked a curvature map that looked quite a bit different to the Marmoset one:

Marmoset curvature:



Substance curvature:


I'm thinking the strength settings for curvature in Marmoset are too low?

Also this is the position map made by Marmoset:



This is the position map made by Substance:


What do you guys think? Do some settings in the Marmoset baker need to be changed? The curvature map looks very different. Is there a problem using other program's maps in Substance? Thanks heaps in advance.

Replies

  • EarthQuake
    The next version of Toolbag (3.04) will have a setting (Normalize) in the curvature map options to create a map that is closer to the Substance Painter output and should work better in Painter. We're working on getting a beta ready for 3.04, if you want to try it out, please join the Toolbag User Group on Facebook.

    I am not sure what the cause of the differences in the position maps is, it looks like perhaps the Substance Painter maps aren't maximizing the value range. In any case the Toolbag map should work for position driven effects.
  • CheeseOnToast
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    CheeseOnToast polycounter lvl 14
    EQ, didn't you guys change the curvature generation to be derived from the highpoly convexity/concavity? AFAIK, the Substance version of curvature is still derived from a normal map, rather than "true" curvature.

    I prefer Marmoset's version anyway. You can always increase the strength setting for the bake and/or run a levels on it if necessary.

    Marmoset position maps work fine for me in SP. The new-ish mask editor has loads of controls for fine-tuning the input maps, so it's fairly straightforward to get the amount of contrast etc. that you need.
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks EQ, i'm on the Marmoset user group already. would love to try the beta. Will thickness map functionality be included in this update?

    I did manage to get a curvature map looking very close to Substance's by increasing the strength. Substance's normal baker is a pain. I don't see how it can be used for anything but the most simplest of objects.
  • EarthQuake
    EQ, didn't you guys change the curvature generation to be derived from the highpoly convexity/concavity? AFAIK, the Substance version of curvature is still derived from a normal map, rather than "true" curvature.

    I prefer Marmoset's version anyway. You can always increase the strength setting for the bake and/or run a levels on it if necessary.

    Marmoset position maps work fine for me in SP. The new-ish mask editor has loads of controls for fine-tuning the input maps, so it's fairly straightforward to get the amount of contrast etc. that you need.
    Yeah Toolbag bakes curvature data based on the high poly rather than the normal map.

    The main difference between the TB style map and Painter is just that Painter levels the data to max out the range. You can take a TB 3.03 map and level it in PS to get essentially the same result. The new Normalize setting (on by default) does that for you now though.
  • EarthQuake
    Thanks EQ, i'm on the Marmoset user group already. would love to try the beta. Will thickness map functionality be included in this update?

    I did manage to get a curvature map looking very close to Substance's by increasing the strength. Substance's normal baker is a pain. I don't see how it can be used for anything but the most simplest of objects.
    The 3.04 beta does have a thickness map output now. We just posted the beta in the user group so you should try it out and let us know what you think!
  • guitarguy00
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    guitarguy00 polycounter lvl 2
    Thanks Joe, downloading the beta right now. Marmoset is already my go-to for baking and rendering so the improvements and additions mean I won't have to use Substance to bake anything now!
  • poopipe
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    poopipe quad damage


    It looks like orientation could different in the position maps to me. 

    Substance works on either boundingbox or boundingsphere depending on what you select,  that'll have an effect on the range. 
  • oXYnary
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    oXYnary polycounter lvl 14
    Bumping an old thread, but I figured out the position map?  Marmosets output is totally different than what painter expects so any masks using position are fubar.  I checked each channel for sphere in comparison and they arent taking the same direction.  Does it deal with possibly substance and marmosets internal "front" axis/swizzle?
  • temirgalin
    This is how i adjust ao from marmoset for painter. I'm using centimeters as default units in marmoset. The difference is not so big in bakes. SP bake has more contrast







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